Terrible News and the Importance of Accountability
 

Who do you confess your faults to besides the Lord?

I received some terrible news yesterday that no doubt will soon ripple throughout....Concerning the Ministry and Accountability...

I need to be accountable to someone...and am accountable to someone....

We all need to be accountable especially for the Ministry concerning Pastors and Leaders....

Our actions when bad have farther reaching effects and do much more damage than just our locale....

I think that temptation is something we all face and deal with daily as Christians We fight the good fight and battle...

But when you hear of those well respected, well known, and seeming to be strong have fallen to depths that even go beyond the veil of normalcy it is heart breaking to be sure. When you know that friends are facing one of the worst trials in their life because of the sinfulness of one man it is heart breaking for sure.

Ministry....Pastor....We all need to be accountable to someone...even when we feel that we are strong...take heed lest we fall....

I will post some more...but these are my thoughts for now....

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

Accountability is difficult these days because most people don't know how to keep things confidential, and as a result, there is a lack of trust overall. It's a nice idea, but usually falls short in practical application.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

It is difficult....I can't help but think that if this man had someone he could trust it might have thwarted what happened....but we'll never know...

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I know of a small effort being made on the part of a few pastors and counselors to make private counseling available for ministers (this was a couple of years ago)--the problem is, not many people can be trusted to actually keep things private. In fact, even Christian counselors have been know to "spill the beans."

Smart people don't tell anyone but God about their struggles. It should NOT be that way, but that's the way it IS. Case in point: A man confides in a friend. The friend tells his wife. The wife is friends with the pastor's wife. The pastor's wife tells her husband. The pastor goes to the man, and the accountability has gone out the window, because the man has learned he cannot trust his friend.

Obviously some things cannot be held in secret, especially criminal matters. But in general, this is a very real problem, because we have a church full of gossips and people who share things so others can "pray about it." It should break our hearts. (I am not talking about our church specifically--I'm talking about the church in general.)

Add in a culture that believes one failure disqualifies a man from ministry forever, and then he is faced with the idea that he will lose his family, his friends, the church, his children will be hurt, etc., if he tells anyone anything, and the decision is easier still.

I am all for ministry abiding by a stricter mode of conduct, but at the same time, it is a faulty system where a minister feels he has no one to turn to when he is faced with a struggle. Certainly not fellow saints. Probably not his wife. Certainly not fellow ministers, who will likely "turn him in" to the district or tell other ministers.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I have heard of some accountability nightmares. Where the trust was not kept and things shared that should have been kept in prayferfull trust.

We all have heard of great people of Gosd who have fallen into grievious error and sins.

Would it have been different if fthey could have shared/cofessed their faults one to another.

At a Baptist mens retreat a brother spoke up and asked , "why don't address our problem with lust, pornagraphy, adultery etc.
It's something that all men struggle with or know someone who has and we act like it never happens to us??

Until we can TRULY forgive the offending brother and TRULY accept back into fellowship, things will continue to kept in the closet or swept under the rug.

For instance; I've heard it stated on this forum that if a person male or female comes to faith and is set free from homosexuality.

If that person ever again even thinks about or is tempted by those feelings again that they are not redeemed, probably never were redeemed. Lost as two boys kissing.

With mentality like that, how is the person that struggles with an occasional thought or temptation ever going to be able to share his struggles with out fear of being ousted from fellowship.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I don't know. It makes me sad to think about it. I wonder how many people could have been salvaged if they had felt they could talk to another saint of God about their struggles without fear of reprisal?

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

Unfortunately, what you said here is too true.

Has INTERGRITY left the ministry?

I pray it has not.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I have seen the effects of this lack of trust for many years, and have preached it will come back to bite us.

It is symthons of a dysfunctional family.

JMO

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I hate to say it but the sinfulness of men and depth of sin will always gauge forgiveness and acceptance back when it comes to us....

Certainly God forgives....but depravity of sin will always stain the Man or woman....especially in the Ministry....the amount of Trust placed than replaced by distrust and disgust will always have the tentacles of not forgiving for years to come...

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

It's not ministry (clergy) There is teaching among us that we all should seek out accountablity partners.

Just two brothers that weekly meet for a cup of coffeee or prayer and quiz each other on how they are doing this week.

They encouraged to ask hard questions. Have you liusted this week? Have you viewed porn?

Have you lied to me in your answers?


This lends itself to hugh problems, in my opinion, that if things shared are not kept in confidence there could be hugh problems arise.

As christians we all should be able to answer questions like these in the positve, but in a real world we all know that we all can't.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I do think that ministers will face natural consequences to their ministries...sure. That's understandable. However, if they could have someone to talk to or be accountable to before it reaches past the point of festering and becomes an open wound, well...that would be a much better ideal.

The distrust, disgust and lack of forgiveness are stains on the church.

You know as well as I do, revrandy, that some things are just completely taboo, and if you even have a thought in one of those directions, you'd better hide it with all your might, whether you act on it or not. Is that how the church should function?

Another problem is a cultural dichotomy. We live in this over sexualized, over-stimulated, desensitized society with easy access to all sorts of immorality and crime. On the flip side, there is a strangely shocked outcry when any member of Christendom falls victim to what is freely, regularly and blatantly offered. The church culture has picked up on this secular trend and has expanded on it. We pretend these things don't exist, we don't address them, and then we are surprised when anyone partakes or stumbles or struggles.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

MissBratt.....this is true.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I know if you go to a Licensed counselor and they talk they can lose their licenses.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

revrandy, I'm not meaning to imply that sin within the ministry can't or shouldn't be dealt with. I'm just lamenting the fact that we don't have a better safety net in place to keep at least some ministers from ever getting to that point in the first place.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

This is happening now....but you can't sweep this stuff under the rug....

It will eventually come out...but if you can't be truthful up front how can you expect the truth to ever come out.....I think they need to be truthful now and open so that there is no mistaking what was done or what happened...

but that is just my opinion....sin is not rocket science and simple, stupid human sins we all deal with are easier for us to be forgiving but when the sin is compounded to the extreme of sickness than it becomes hard....and is very damaging to the whole vs. just a few....

It definately does need to be dealt with...

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I'm not even sure a safety net would work. When I was younger it was a shocking thing to know someone had a Playboy magazine. They didn't sell them in the convenience stores. Now you have cable and pay per view, etc.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

hey bro, that is sad that someone is hurt by this, there are two parts to this problem, those that arent accountable and then believe they are beyond reproach when they fall, and then those that hurt others and justify there behavior, the fact is we are all human and frail, we all need god, and forgiveness. The natural consequences in life of sin are not removed by his grace, but our hearts are cleaned and rejuvenated by his grace and love, god bless you bro, prayin for you and the hurting, dt

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

Brother...I am disappointed in this but not hurt by it....don't misunderstand me...In speaking with some friends who were hurt by the situation I was amazed to think of the far reaching consequences of the actions of just one person....

The only way I am personally affected is that it was a Minister/Pastor by vocation....

I do pray for the family and those involved....

and I agree with you completely NEW BLOOD coming in is definately essential in cleansing our hearts...and overcoming...

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

MissB your post are right on! Enjoying the discussion and a well needed one at that!

RevRan, I feel your hurt.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I believe in accountability & am surprised when it was brought up on the old NFCF a large part of the people there.
I was shocked!

We need accountability. I was recently talking with another 2 ministers & we all said to one another that if you saw something, or could tell that there was a bad spirit/attitude,
creeping in, to check one another in love to keep us from going offtrack.

Accountability-I believe in it 110% & am shocked when others don't.

Sorry for the situation you are facing with anoither person RevRandy.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

Just a note....I am not facing a Situation...neither am I personally affected by this situation other than being related by Vocation....Don't misunderstand me....that being said...I am sad for some friends of mine who are affected...

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

may the the great one, Jesus himself visit the hurting and calm there hearts is my prayer, i am glad that you are on the outside of this, the first church i pastored years ago was ravaged by an unscrupulous pastor, who had no accountability at all, the damage of his actions is still being felt in that community, god bless you and the hurting is my prayer, dt

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

That's what I meant too. It's disappointing to see anyone have to go through it.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I recently found out about a pastor friend of ours who is currently going through the court system for molesting a child. (That discussion was brought up here, and then I believe the threads were deleted.)

It is very painful to see someone close to you fall down so low. Yet, even in this case, the minister in question may have been trying to get help a few years back when he was "found out" with some porn on his computer...from what I understand, there was some form of admission, but then when it was spread around, he quickly backtracked and denied it altogether. Sort of went into hiding...and then when it surfaced again...well, it was much worse than just looking at porn.

So again, it disturbs me that there isn't a better safety net and more closed mouths available to help a man (or woman) when things aren't so bad that they are a total loss!

I have to say, too, that when I first heard about this particular minister and what he had done, I was very angry. How could he do that? What is wrong with him? But in the end, all I can feel is very sad about it. For the minister, for the victim, for both families, for the church, for his children. The fallout is terrible and grievous.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

what a shame for him and all involved, you are so right sis, there is help but it has to be sought, and accountability is absolutely essential, dt

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

Has anyone ever thought on this passage of scripture found in Romans 3:19?

Rom.3:19.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are

under the law;that every mouth may be stopped, and ALL the world may become

guilty before God.

Rom.3:23.

For ALL have sinned,(erred. trespassed) and come short (lacked) of the glory

of God.


Rom.11:20 (in part)

Be not highminded, but fear.


I Cor.10:12.
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed let he fall.

The next verse, 13, gives hope to those who have fallen.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is commom to man:

but God is faithful, who will NOT suffer (allow, permit) you to be tempted

(tested, tried) above that you are able; but will with the temptation (test,

trial) also make a way to escape,(end,exit) that you may be able to bear

(endure, bear up under) it.


Don't give up and don't give in. In God there in hope for a successful end.

But if we sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.

I John 2:2-2.

Blessings,

Falla39

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

This may smack of the sound of Papalism, but in light of the need for confession, counseling and personal strengtening, also in the light of the fact that counselors can be held accountable to the justice system for not revealing facts uncovered in such sessions; also in light of the fact that some counselors are less than trustworthiness; I wonder, just wonder...maybe the anonomity of the old RCC Confessional is the answer???

After all, confession and counseling can be made without having to reveal WHO was in the Confessional booth. Also, the Counselor cannot gossip about certain (unkown for sure) person.

I'm not so sure that this would be the answer to some of the problems presented by the demands of the justice system to deliver up a confessor. It would also have the affect of granting comfort to the Confessor granted by the (apparent) anonimity.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

that is an interesting theory my friend, over the many years of my life i have heard many things that i wish i could forget, no joke, dt

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

Does true love reveal a matter?

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

Are those who reveal matters lacking true love?

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

Even when accountability is in place, it doesn't often really work. Speaking only from my experience in the AoG, and it may be different elsewhere, of course. The section/district leaders are just part of the good ole boys, and stand behind the pastor, almost no matter what.

Is it different in the UPCI?

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

Proverbs 11:13 A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.

Secrets - a session, that is, company of persons (in close deliberation);

Proverbs 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.

Counselers - to advise; reflexively to deliberate or resolve: - advertise, take advice, advise (well), consult, (give take) counsel (-lor), determine, devise, guide, purpose.

Safety - rescue.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

No, it does not, unless of course they are under constraits by the justice system. In that case, love is not the question...time in jail would be the question.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I don't see the "accountability" thing working very well in actuality. It sounds good but will be only as successful as a person is able to be completely honest and transparent with their accountability partner.

What about accountability with God? He sees and knows all anyhow. Nothing is hidden to Him.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

True, but I wasn't speaking of a judicial matter.

There have been many occasions where I have restrained handing in a prayer request for fear the matter will be told. Thank God for the "Unspoken request."

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

"He who is trustworthy in spirit keeps a thing covered."

"A prudent man keeps his knowledge to himself but the heart of fools blurts out folly."

That's what Solomon said.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

The fact that we even need "unspoken requests" is indicative of our [legitimate] lack of trust for one another.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I know of no person that I would reveal all my heart to. Nobody. Much to the frustration of some. :)

I spill everything out to God. He's my only accountability partner. He knows and sees what nobody else does ---- and understands.

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

I agree to a point...but when there are times when I need to unload and I am thankful I have a few friends I could trust to talk to when I am in need...

the interesting thing is for the most part in dealing with folks we all have the same battles just on different fields many times....

Re: Terrible News and the Importance of Accountabi
 

You are absolutely right, Felicity. And really, you will normally only have one or two very good friends, in your life, that you could actually trust with your heart.