Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Here, the Bible has plainly told us of something we must reach. A destination is given to us. Hebrews 4 teaches the believer that they are to enter into His rest. The Bible says, "There remainth therefore a rest for the people of God"? What does that mean? That doesn't mean that there remains a place in God where you can just lay around and not work and have everything come to you. It means that "in Christ", in His finished and completed work, everything was accomplished to make you stop working to become spiritually successful. It is entering into what He did and to become more successful than you've every dreamed you could make yourself.

There is a rest that remains to the people of God. That's our inheritance. It's entering into the Promise Land, or the rest of the finished work of Christ, and then doing more than you've ever dreamed of for the Lord before.

We have tried and tried, preached this sermon and that, we have cried out for our loved ones to get saved. Tried to make Church's work and nothing seems to work. Finally we must come to the place where we rest in the finished work of God, give it to Him, and let Him get it done.

We believe that the Church as a whole is tired of working. They have done everything they know to do and they are completely worn out. They are spiritually and physically tired. Jesus is the one that takes us over into the land through testings and trials. It's resting in what He did. We must know enough about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and ask ourselves, “Did the Cross already put me over into this situation?” And find out what the bble says the cross did for usm and rest in it and understand you do not need to work for it because it is already provided. That's the rest. You're not supposed to be the One whom you are to depend upon.

You do have some things to do, though! You're to renew your mind to the finished work of Christ. You're to find out what the Cross really bought and paid for and what is true of you today. Everything that the Word of God says about someone who is in Christ is true of you today if you are in Christ.

You’re not trying to become more than a conqueror. You read that Scripture in Romans 8, "we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us" and people say, "Oh, I hope that takes place in my life someday!"

That is not a promise to reach for. That is already an existing fact about you. We erringly read statements of fact in the New Testament and then make promises out of them. The Bible doesn't say that a believer can become more than a conqueror. You were born more than a conqueror when you were born the second time.

These things are already true of you. But many people don't know how these things became true of them, so they do not think it is true of them. Therefore, they struggle to become someone they already are.

Hebrews 4:11 KJV Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The struggle that we must enter into, the labor to enter into His rest, is the renewing of your mind. The giants that you have to overcome in the promise land are between your ears!

continued later...

Thoughts?

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Good post, Brother Blume!

Isaiah 28:11-12 "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear."

Matthew 11:28 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

His Spirit out poured is what gives us rest.

Jude 1:20 "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,..."

I was talking to an old friend yesterday. Our friendship goes back a ways and we were going over the circumstances surrounding his life when he got in church. Lord, so much confusion going on. We discussed many things that had taken place and we asked, "How did we even keep believing in God all this time?"

He talked about how he had a long drive to work every morning and would pour out his heart to God and God's presence would comfort him, speak to him, counsel him.

We talked about how the most awesome times in church are when God's Spirit seems to hover over the place and it settles our minds, our hearts and causes us to forgive and start over.

I remember being alone at church one day. No one around and the Lord told me to read Psalm 91:1 "He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty."

His presence was so strong as though it surrounded me. He spoke to me and said, "This is the secret place."

When I come into the presence of the Lord
When I come into the presence of the Lord
Chains are broken and my heart is free again
When I come into the presence of the Lord

This is the rest and this is the refreshing!

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Beautiful!

Amen. And it's so easy for religion to remove us from this goal of a rest, and to toil and spin. Consider the lilies. How they grow. They do not toil and spin. They sink their roots into the soil where they draw out nutrients. They do not lift weights and work and toil. That is how WE grow.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

So true!!

You realize when you are alone with Him - that you have been toiling - needlessly!

Good thread, Brother Blume!

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

We do not see victory come into our lives becuase we do not really know who we are. We all know that we were displeasing to God before salvation. And somehow we think that is pulled over into ou Christianity and we have to now make attempts at being pleasing to Him. We somehow thought that once we are saved, we care about what God thinks and so we have to now begin to please Him. But salvation already made us pleasing to God, itself!

The bible says we are more than conquerors through Christ. It also says we are new creatures in Christ. We think these are things we must ACHIEVE now that we are saved, when in reality we ARE THOSE THINGS since we are saved. But because we look to our behaviour and feelings, we think these are not true of us.

The way to begin this proper growth process is by first looking at all the things the Bible says we are once we are in Christ. Disregard feelings and what your behaviour is like. Just read what the Word says we are. Even if we do not understand how we are already more than conquerors and how we are new creatures, we have to simply realize we are, solely because the Word says we are.

That is the beginning.

And then we must realize that growing will begin after this point through LEARNING HOW this came to be so with us. As we continue hearing good preaching about these things and reading the Word's explanations of it all, God will "walk us through" the understanding of it all.

Once we are convinced of something concerning us, we can begin to expect greater things from us. We had low expectations of our victory in everyday life because we never knew all the things God made us when he saved us. We lived by feelings and behaviour so much that we felt like losers as we looked towards those feelings and that behaviour. As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. So, the Word corrects this misconception and shows us what we really are since salvation. And as we learn WHY we are like that now, and understand it, we become more and more convinced of it. And once you are convinced you are more than a conqueror, all the belittlement of yourself goes away. This self-belittlement has been nothing more than a HINDRANCE for God to work through us.

Church, let us learn who we are, first. And then learn how we came to be that way, next. Whateve tthe bible says about people who ar ein Chirst is true of us because we are in Christ. It's not true because we fell so powerful. It's true becuase the Bible says it is. And we will then begin a wonderful journey towards Spiritual Maturity.

Without this understanding of true spiritual growth, we will settle with ourselves and slump into a rut of continuing to simply try OUR best, when OUR best will never be good, anyway. In fact, our BEST, and all our efforst to be our best, have been a hindrance to God as well, and will always be a hindrance to Him!

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Just thinking a little about the title of this thread i.e. what is the "purpose of a Christian".

Jesus said that we were to become disciples of His and fulfill His purpose and will. This can't be done without toil, work, labour and sacrifice.

• Carrying out a calling, a vision, a burden......
  
  
• Pastoring a church, pioneering new works, breaking new ground .....
  
  
• Teaching, preaching, learning, studying .....
  
  
• Praying, ministering to the needs of others .....
  
  
• Building new churches, organizing people effectively....

....... all of this requires work and effort and toil. We can't serve God effectively without it. And we can't fulfill our Christian duty and responsibility within our individual callings without blood, sweat and tears.

We have to remember that there is rest, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. Part of the reason why people get so stressed out is because they're not taking time to spend time in the presence of God and allow Him to fill us up. This is where strength, joy, peace and passion is renewed.

Our purpose as individual Christians in regard to calling is varied, but we're ALL called to reflect Christ to the world. This is easy to do when our attention is centered on Christ, our life is hid in Him, and when we're walking in the Spirit and living in obedience to His will. It's the natural outgrowth of a life that is resting in Christ and allowing His Spirit and Word to have their way.

Problem is that way too often people are focused on the "natural" and take their focus off the "eternal".

Just a few thots ....

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Felicity, this brings to mind the proper balance to Christianity.

People work and toil to BE Christians, when there is no work to BE a Christian. There is much ACTIVITY required to REACH this world with the salvation message. But BEING a Christian, in and of itself, is what God worked to accomplish, and not us, and it was finished by the cross.

This means I cannot toil to become righteous. I cannot toil to become holy. I cannot toil to go to Heaven. But there is lots of ACTIVITY, not really toil I think, to work for God and reach this world. But even then, it is "Christ liveth in me," and not me sweating up my own self-energy.

:D

I think that is why we read the priests in the temple could not wear wool (fleshliness of self-effort) but linen (His righteousness and Spirit-empowerment) since wool would cause "sweat". ;)

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

In what sense do you think people work and tarry to be "be" Christians?

:)

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

The entire concept the Bible gives us of doing God's will can be mistaken as requiring self-effort, without any leading nor empowerment from the Spirit by faith. Ther eis a lot of work to do. But HOW does Gdo want us to accomplish it?

Hebrews 4 says there is a REST to enter into. This is for the purpose of allowing God to manifest and live through us, and thereby empower us to reach the world.

People can strain and toil in their self-energy of fleshliness, and think there is no other source to draw from in order to do God's work in the world. But although we must work in this world, we are not to do it in fleshly self-effort. God wants us to come to the fullness of Christ in order to be able to MANIFEST through us and WORK WITH us.

Coming to the rest is a rest in His finished work on the cross, so that we ar enot wasting God's precious time in striving to do His will through the futile means of self-effort, when He wants to live and flow through us.

Paul said Christ lived in him, in Gal 2:20. The works Paul did, which were many and mighty, were accomplished in just the same way Christ did His ministry on earth.

I think many overlook the need for us to go about our work for God in the same manner Chirst did.... dependence on the leaidng of the Spirit and empowerment of the Spirit.

Paul spoke of growing up into Christ. Why? Just to grow? Just to say "I am mature"? No. It is to come to the place where God can use us by being able to easily work through us in ministry, without the hindrance of our fleshliness conjuring up all sorts of our OWN ideas on what to do for God.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

BEING a Christian is being a righteous one, ready for glory and pleasing to God as a person. People strive to be more holy and strive to be righteous. They try to force themselves to be what they already are in the Spirit.

It reminds me of the devil's temptation. Satan told the woman that she would be LIKE GOD if she followed satan's directives. She already WAS like God. God made her in HIS LIKENESS.

And this is exactly the struggle in so many. They ARE righteous, and they ARE more than conquerors just because they are in Christ. This is my issue here. They strive for what they are already. And since they live by feelings and outward observance, they feel weak and cannot see much activity in their lives to validate their position as conquerors and new creatures and righteous ones, so they try to make themselves be that way. But the problem is that is not the path we must take in order to behave more righteously. We already are these things because of God's work. So there is no need to strive to BE these things.

They strive to be pleasing to God. God made them pleasing to Him when He saved them. The first moment we are saved, we cannot be more pleasing to God than what we are. Now, I am talking about position, here. Being pleasing to God as a Christian.

It's a whole new way of thinking, requiring a renewing of the mind. And people have distanced this issue from working for God in this world. But in reality, successful work for God requires us to come to the fullness of Christ. That is a state in which we are so full of God that all we say and do is actually God coming out through our lives and touching this lost world.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Correct. I made reference to this earlier. This is the secret. :thumbsup

Time spent in the "secret place" .... in the presence of the Lord as PO mentioned earlier .... is the secret to tension and stress relief.

Not just time spent in His presence however, with an an understanding of why we can rest in Him. Now that is very important.

I think a lot of believers have lacked good teaching concerning this because they think it's all about what they "do" and don't do and live in a constant state of guilt feeling like they never measure up.

The truth is none of us can ever "measure up" in our own efforts, but at the same time there is a responsibility to live in obedience.

There is a balance.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

I think it needs to be said that the work in reaching a lost world can only effectively be accomplished by a personal maturity in the Spirit. People hear of spiritual maturity and consider it a waste of time, since we should be rather reaching the lost with our time. But reaching the lost effectively and really accomplishing something that is powerfully anointed, to enable us to reach the lost effectively, requires a personal spiritual maturity. The greater the spiritual maturity in a person, the more God can lead us and work through us to impact souls for eternity.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Amen. And it is the secret to learning how to flow with God so that he can inspire and empower us to do His will. We cannot do His work without His empowerment! :D

Right! Feeling inferior like a loser, hinders God's work in our lives to affect others.

That is my whole point. Ultimately, they cannot do much for God, in this mindset. And that needs to be changed.

And it must be obedience with the conscious realization that we can only OBEY through tapping into God's Life, and then seeing Him minister through us.

This is like the branch in John 15 that Christ said cannot bear fruit without being tapped into the vine. Fruit can represent any work accomplished for the Kingdom. Souls saved. Fruit of the Spirit. Feats of activity. It can be done in the flesh, but that means nothing to God. Only through doing these things through the Spirit does God value it.

Without Him, all we do is consider "nothing".

True. However, all things must be accomplished THROUGH Christ. Hence, our need to come to the fullness of Christ for even the pratical and physical work for God. He told us to GO, but He said we must do it through the Spirit's empowerment. Learning to do all through Spirit-empowerment is not only necessary for God to even value what we do, but is what will cause us to accomplish ABUNDANT works for Him. We cannot separate obedience from doing all through the Spirit.

Learning how to do it THROUGH CHRIST is the kicker.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Spiritual maturity can only come through spiritual growth.

Spiritual growth is a result of:

1. Spending time in the presence of God i.e. prayer
   
   
2. Discipleship ..... studying, understanding, obeying and putting His Word into practice.

How do we know a person is spiritually mature?

:)

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Amen! Learning through these things how to be a vessel of God is the entire key, I think.

By their fruits. :) A mature branch bears much fruit on the vine.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

And that fruit is visibly seen as ........ ???


:)

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Like I said....

There can be "plastic fruit" -- counterfeits. But true fruit is distinguishable. Everyone knows a true smile from the fake ones, for example. lol

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Perhaps it is seen as rest and peace in the life of the believer, where they continue to do the work of God, but do not struggle with whether or not their works are good enough. They will never be good enough, so we simply, peaceably, do the work & will of God without pressure to perform or measure up.

When that is seen in individual's lives, it is truly inspiring to others.
God bless.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Amen teacher,

And when HE DOES THE WORK THROUGH US, it is not us who struggle to accomplish it. It FLOWS out. How much struggle does a branch exert to bear fruit? None! Just plug into and rest in the vine, and be extremely active in Spirit-empowered ministry! It's REST in the position we hold as believers, but that causes a LOT OF Spirit-led ACTIVITY. Somehow, people think rest in the Spirit means no activity. That cannot be further from the truth.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

This is why my first post said:

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

M F Blume wrote; Paul spoke of growing up into Christ. Why? Just to grow? Just to say "I am mature"? No. It is to come to the place where God can use us by being able to easily work through us in ministry, without the hindrance of our fleshliness conjuring up all sorts of our OWN ideas on what to do for God.

I appreciate your understanding of this vital teaching from the Word of God. Reading what you wrote here reminds me of what Paul wrote to the saints throughout Asia. He assured them of his ongoing prayer for them, not that they might DO certain things, but UNDERSTAND certain things that would be transformational. His desire for them was that they fully understand who they were in Christ so they could BE like Christ and therefore truly live out their oneness with Christ through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Thanks for reminding us of this.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Very good!

It's wonderful to have had good teaching where this very important truth is understood and has been foundational in walking with and living for God.

I feel sorry for those who don't understand this.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Wow, you really have a way of saying it! Thank-YOU!

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

I'm asking these questions to pull more out of you and save me the work. Hehe. :)

This is good discussion and good teaching. :thumbsup

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

:amen

I love this thread!!!

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

He's a very solid teacher/preacher. He's got what's being discussed here down pat and instills this kind of what should be foundational teaching in the people he pastors. :thumbsup

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

It's great!

Join in sis. I'm sure you have some great thoughts or practical experience in regard to what's being discussed here.

Women are allowed. :toofunny

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Wonderful! I always dreamed of a CONFERENCE that focuses in being IN CHRIST with all this in mind. He sounds like a great speaker for such a conference.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Amen Bro Blume, and good to talk to you again!

As a real-life example, I have heard ministers declare that they are not sure if one can make it to heaven if they have not won a soul. Now we know that activity toward soul winning is profitable, but it is certainly not a requirement for salvation. However there are Christians who are "laboring" outside of the rest of Calvary, worrying and fretting over their salvation, and attempting to win souls under such circumstances. They are not in the rest of Calvary, and such attempts can lead to frustration, not being rooted in what Jesus Christ already did, but rooted in a performance based mentality.

God bless, and we trust all is well in California!

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Amen Sister, it is an important truth and heartbreaking to see those laboring outside of His rest.

God bless.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

AMEN AND AMEN.

That would make it salvation by works, if that were the case.

And their accomplishments will be very skimpy and small. Flesh simply cannot do the job.

Great to hear from you! God is good. In our work, another soul who wandered away 17 years ago is now coming to services with a renewed hope and hunger for God!

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Exactly. Unless the Lord build the house...

That is tremendous! May God continue to bless all your efforts in the rest of Christ.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

On another thread a few days ago I made this response to a post Sis. Felicity made, plus a few more words. There was very little response as
there is also to many of my posts. I wonder if many that grew up in this
last generation ever learned to listen or understand. They can sit and
watch a program for hours, play video games, sit for hours watching a
team play a "game" but when it comes right down to it, unless there is
some great argument or something being discussion, not necessarily of
eternal value, they are bored. Their attention span is limited.

Please, I do not mean this to be offensive but of great concern.

Re: Changes in the UPC over the past 30 years

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity
Not sure what you mean by "sin free" Stephen.

Do you not believe that the blood is there for continual cleansing if we avail ourselves of that IF we do sin? What about the scripture that says the blood of Christ "cleanseth" us from our sin. The "eth" always denotes a continual action. That is there for us when we need it and when we admit guilt and sin. Once you're cleansed, you're clean until the next time you sin or transgress. Then you can avail yourself of that cleansing once again.

Do you not believe the scripture that says that if we walk in the Spirit we will NOT fulfil the lust of the flesh?

I believe that it's possible to live in victory. In fact, I KNOW it is.



Sis. Felicity,

I also know that we can live an overcoming life by the Blood of the Lamb

and by the word of our testimony.

In the early 1930's, my maternal grandmother and her young son, our father,

attended a revival at the Virginia Point Methodist Church, in Fannin County,

north of Savoy, Texas. Our late father went forward to "accept Christ as

his personal Saviour". I heard him say many times through the years that it

was a good place to start but by no means no place to stop.


His maternal grandmother had been a charter member of the Methodist

church for 48 yrs., his mother for 21 yrs and as a new teenager, he was

going to be a Methodist

like his mother and grandmother. He loved to attend the Baptist Church be-

cause of the training union (youth program), but he was going to follow the

traditions of his elders and be a Methodist.


He found out a few days after saying the sinner's prayer that try as he may,

he could not help but cussing as he had done previously. This concerned him

greatly. He told his mother that he didn't feel saved. She took him to the

pastor of the Methodist Church for counsel. He told young Robert's mother

that there was no way he could not sin a little every day. He said the boy

will just have to accept his salvation by faith. This did not satisfy the young

boy's mother as she very emphatically replied, "Then what did Jesus Christ

die for! The Bible said He died FOR our sins, not IN them". No doubt this

incident was preparing this family for not long after that, an old preacher

with his white-hairing blowing in the wind as he proclaimed the teaching of

the Apostles, on the street corner of their small town.


Grandma read her Bible regularly as a Methodist and her first reaction upon

hearing this new teaching was that she was going home and read her Bible

and prove that preacher wrong. My dad, having some knowledge of the JW

teachings because of two uncles that liked to argue with them. He told his

mother, "Mother, sounds like more of that JW doctrine, don't you think"?

"No, Son, I've searched the scriptures and it's in there". How close we could

have come to have not heard the gospel of Jesus Christ in its fullness. I

thank God that Grandma was wise enough to not listen to a "child" as he was

not yet mature enough to make that decision. He decided maybe he should

listen more closely after his mother's answer. He had much confidence in his

mother who he knew to be endeavoring to follow God in all that she knew.

She was very devout as far as what she understood. They repented, was

baptized in Jesus Name and received the Holy Ghost after. Daddy said they

found what they had needed.


They found POWER to live an overcoming life and found an Advocate if they

did miss Him. I too know from experience that we can live overcoming lives

by the Blood of the Lamb and by the word of our testimony.


I received this same experience 50 yrs. ago this year. Yes. I have made

mistakes, repented and moved on. All of our children (all married to their

original spouses) have received the same experience and are living over-

coming lives, active in church with all of their children there with them.

If we will be faithful to God, He will be faithful to us. If we take care of

the things that are precious to Him, He will take care of those things which

are precious to us. The blessings of the children lie in the obedience of

their parents. The children are blessed by those who precede them.

Better than what we can leave TO our children is what we leave IN them.

We CAN live overcoming lives one day, one week, one month, one year at a

time.

Last year 50 yrs. ago I graduated from high school. Fifty yrs. ago this year

my husband and I received the Holy Ghost. Also my husband and I will cele-

brate 50 yrs. of marriage next year, the Lord willing.

When you start on a journey, purpose not only to run but to finish

victoriously.

Blessings,

Falla39

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Well, I'm not a scholar, you guys intimidate me a little in that area, but this discussion made me think of something my pastor said during Bible study on Wed. night.

He was talking about what the "will of God" is in our lives (and I realize that there are specific callings on individuals lives) overall.

From my notes:

Non-conformity to this world and a constant renewing of our minds. (Rom. 12:2)

Sexual purity; keeping your body pure and honorable; avoiding the lust of longing for the forbidden things; dealing honestly with your fellow man. (1 Thess. 4:3-6)

Giving thanks in everything. (1 Thess. 5:18)

Doing good. (1 Pet. 2:15, Acts 10:38)

Praying the scriptures. (I can't find the scripture reference he used, I'll have to ask him about that)

Anyway, I have had that rolling around in my head, and this thread made me start thinking about it again.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

The real purpose of every living thing is to reproduce after their own kind.


What kind are you reproducing?

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Sis. Falla.......

I'm sorry I missed your post. I was just doing a search ... going back through posts made to me or referencing something I said ..... and noticed that I had missed the post you made. I was planning to acknowledge it.

Thanks for responding here and quoting what you wrote a couple days ago. You always have good things to say! :)

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

And I realize that my post was a little off topic, but I was thinking of it in reference to what all you smart people were saying!

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Amen!

HOW we do so is what is the kicker. Through fleshly effort or through the Spirit. True reproduction is a miracle and can only be through the Spirit! :)

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

Amen, Sis Falla!

WE Can live victoriously. You quoted a powerful verse. If we walk after the Spirit WE WILL NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Re: Purpose Of Being Christian
 

I was just thinking of this scripture that the Lord showed me in the prayer room before church last Sunday night. I asked Him what He wanted me to have on my mind at that time. He reminded me of the principle behind this scripture text.

Philippians 2:5-7 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:..."

Made himself of NO REPUTATION, but took upon him the form (shape, nature) of a servant.....

That says it all! The works He did were of the Father! That needs no explanation!