I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

yay me, when in the discussion of the proper (or improper) roles of pastors i was the first perm ban from justpreachers.com

silly me, i actually based my arguement off a literal exegesis of Ephesians and the five fold while others dropped terms like "apostolic covering" and basically put forth the idea that you pretty much cannot be saved without a pastor.

i think pastors are there to be counselors, friends, and teachers. my salvation and growth rests in Christ and the scriptures alone. The five fold ministry is there to grow and strengthen the church, it is not salvational.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

Don't feel too bad- I was banned from the get go.

I have about 6 preachers mad at me right now lol

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

heres my fellow AWCF'ers reply:

You did kill their argument with scripture. Therefore, their only
recourse was to ban you.

Wow...

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

who said that?

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

the actual cut and paste was deleted per the admin of this forum due to their internal rules about c/p from other forums for those that can't see it since someone will say "where is it"

but it was the admin from justpreachers Jim Renfro that said that.. blows your mind eh?

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

you must be from canada :toofunny

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

Philippians 2:3

Philippians 2:3 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

i use a keylogger on my computer so heres exactly what i said from my PC logs.. i dont see where this is out of the Word or heretical...

--------------------------------------

lets go hyper literal with the ESV

5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who
is over all and through all and in all.

7 But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of
Christ's gift.

8 Therefore it says,"When he ascended on high he led a host of
captives, and he gave gifts to men."

9 (In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also
descended into the lower regions, the earth? [1]

10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the
heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the
shepherds [2] and teachers, [3] 12 to equip the saints for the work of
ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain
to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to
mature manhood, [4] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of
Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by
the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human
cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way
into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body,
joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped,
when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it
builds itself up in love.


I see it for the building up and strengthening of the corporate church
and us as individuals.. don't see any reference to salvation or
soteriology in there. Nor do i see anything on submission and
authority. Its just a general principle that the 5 fold ministry is a
resource to guide and grow the church in various ways.

The submission and authority stuff may "preach" well ... but when you
go to the actual text and stick to it it, you may find it isn't there
and would disrupt the view of human authority that may (or may not) be
biblical or "apostolic"

-------------------------------------------------------- (later post)

i didn't say we didn't need them in practice or they weren't valuable.
my contention is that the position that a pastor has any level of
extraordinary authority over his saints beyond being a guide, teacher
and counselor is why we have tens of thousands of damaged people who
hate our message.. because we made man the authority and arbiter in
our walk and not the teachings of Christ and scripture alone.

i just don't throw salvation into the mix, nor do i make the scripture
say more than it actually does.

as one of my mentors Dr. David Norris says "Don't be smarter than the text"

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

I am quoting this part because, being the glutton for punishment that I am, I am listening to Verbal Bean's "Scum in the Pot" message and it blames ALL of the churches ills on the pastor not being given the proper authority that he is due. There is plenty of 'standards' talk but it all comes back to the first point.
Listening to him is like listening to a liberal politician. Both identify the 'problem' correctly yet their solutions are 180 degrees out of phase.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

I strongly disagree that it is not salvational.

You may not have a pastor to help pray you through to the Holy Ghost, but in the end you cannot be saved without one.

Years ago, the old timers used to compare such a lone ranger with a coal of fire that separated from the fire. While the fire still burns, the coal will eventually fade away into a little pile of ash. You must have a pastor and be a part of the fold if you are not going to burn out, become cold or backslid.

Stick with all the exegesis that you want, the reality is fact.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

i'll gladly stick with a literal interpretation and be "sola scriptura"

in the end you just end up with third party stories that are opinions cloaked behind allegory and your end product is distorted Christianity.

This as as close as you can get in the literal word out of the ESV to even have a fig leaf for your viewpoint (a literal translation and very accurate)

----------------------------
Romans 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? [1] And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
----------------------------

and all of us are called to be witnesses of His teachings, so to say who and who isn't a preacher is another pile of man made stuff...

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

Is this sorta like the group (Pharisees, leaders, etc) in Acts 7 who heard Stephen's exposition of Scripture but they covered their ears and then killed him?

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

You may carry on believing what you want to believe. However, you can find no scripture that says that you can be saved without a pastor. You cannot endure to the end without one. That is reality.

God put the five fold ministry in the church for a purpose. The Pastor is the watchman for your soul. He is God's undershepherd of the sheep.

You carry on with that kind of "I can do without 'em" mind set, you will surely come to a sad end. You can take that to the bank.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

pretty much

their all time #1 thread was one I created where I cut and paste a message from the AWCF World Congress last year with Kenneth Philips where he talked about using technology. the thread went WAY negative and like 400+ posts later folks were calling him backslid, etc etc... nasty stuff.. especially since im AWCF myself.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

Brother... i think the check would bounce if I did.

I don't discount the five fold ministry. Its there to strengthen the body. Its the pastor worship that derives from the concept that pastors are anything more than co-heirs in Christ and fully equal to us. I am assisting in a church myself and my pastor is also my uncle who is UPCI. I love him and he is my guide, friend, and counselor who is developing me.

But my salvation is in Christ and the Holy Spirit and scriptures are my guidepost.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

EW, my experience is that a fellow who gets banned from somewhere gets it because they refuse to comply with the wishes of the admin.

my view is, if someone cannot comply with the direction of the board they are posting on, it is their own fault.

instead of bragging about getting axed and pointing out how bad they are, you might find it more valuable to do a little soul searching. maybe it wasnt your disagreement so much as your disagreeableness that led to the ban.

you are not required to agree with me.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

And, neither can you be saved without a priest to administer baptism by which you are "born of water," or to confirm you with the chrism of salvation, or to change the physical elements into the actual body and blood of Christ and then minister it to you in the sacrament, or to hear your confession and then to absolve you after prescribing the proper penance, or to marry you and your intended spouse in the church, etc. etc.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

its there decision to ban since its their playground.

its just amazing they banned me over that compared to some of the vile things that got thrown down in other threads. i had zero warning... i was just commenting that it was suprising.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

BTW what you do in PM is your business *hint hint*

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

So Erik was stoned by the Pharisees of another forum Sam? Interesting you should say that

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

Why are you here posting something about another forum? And we are only seeing your side. And since you are using copy and paste it could have come from anywhere.

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

Well now I can see why they don't want the public reading their posts.....JustPreachers.com.......the preacher eating machine :toofunny

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

Yup....it's their pay ground...er play ground so it's their rules...perhaps that was why it was started?

Re: I'm the first perm ban from justpreachers.com
 

erikwebster,

If you have a problem with another forum, deal with it there. AFF is not the sounding board for how someone was treated at another online forum. The subject that you were banned for is open to discussion if you wish to start a thread on it, but not your issue with the other forum. I am closing this thread.