Where Have All Of The Cons Gone?
 

I have not been able to be on AFF very much the last few months due to work and other things.

However when I am here I have noticed that a great number of the conservative posters seem to have abandoned us. Some entirely and some still show up occasionally but not very often.

Did I miss a big blow up or something in particular that caused this to happen?

Or are all of the conservatives and ultra cons just talking to each other at CAF and other conservative forums?

I really miss the great balance we had on here and the interesting interactions.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

There is a new preachers-only forum that a couple of guys from here started, I think. It's pretty conservative, from what I've heard. I think several of the AFF guys have migrated over there.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

steadfast and coon are over at justpreachers.com but still frequent us backsliders over here.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

I seriously thought that some of them would come back when Matt let Dan Alicea go. At least I think that was the hope. some left because of him but when they got rid of him I suppose that didn't satisfy???

Epley and Coon are the only ones that i can think of that post anymore and it's rare. Coon and IAM left and started another forum for preachers only. many preachers here feel like the ministry is being torn apart and disrespected.

I have no idea why Steadfast isn't posting anymore but he is on IAMs forum.

The conservatives believe that there are people here out to destroy the Apostolic message.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

No...Its not a "conservative" site....Its just an Apostolic site....
We even have a few AFF Ladies over there....

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Coon, Steadfast, IAM, St. Matt, BOOM and many more are in fact there...but I dony know of any of them saying they were leaving AFF.

The new forum was started by IAM.....

It is going very very well....

We have alot of upc, Aljc, ind and yes even WPFers....:TulsaNO:

The spirit is GREAT!

Its been up about 2 weeks...has 189 members...6,099 posts and over 350 threads......

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

CC, I think it's sad the way we've all splintered off starting our own groups and cliques. OVerall I think Matt's done a good job keeping a balance. some folk will never be happy perhaps

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

CC, I'll PM you and tell you what really went down.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

St. Matt & NlYP,

Thanks for the explanations. I figured there had to be another forum or two some had migrated to.

It is a shame that the conservatives solution to any imbalance here was to leave and create even more imbalance.

I have steered clear of forums created by libs leaving FCF, NFCF and AFF because I valued the dynamic of having all perspectives represented in discussions. I wish the conservatives had felt the same way.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Thanks.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

What am I? Chopped liver?

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

LOL!! Yes. Anyone with just over 400 posts in the length of time you have been around is indeed "chopped liver"!

You need to post a lot more and recruit some of your ultra con brethern to get on here and set everybody straight!!!!!

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

LOL! Amen!

I think part of it is that all the conservatives haven't left...just the ones we're most familiar with. We have new people signing up every day.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

I'm still here CC. If I must bear the conservative burden alone, I'll do what I must.......


But the Lord has spoken to me and said that there are yet 6,000 who have not bowed their knee to Baal............................

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

My personal opinion is they did not want the balance. While they can claim this board is liberal or moderate, the only thing that makes it liberal is the lack of conservatives and vice versa.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

And they are not up to defending it? It was always from the beginning known we have people here that believe in Acts 2:38 but that salvation comes before baptism at faith/repentance and those that believe all three precede salvation. Same with standards. We all knew that going in. Some posters like Mizpeh and Ferd did a good job arguing for their views while others chose to get mad and leave.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

I think it's a great idea! Kevin Shindoll the Admin. and is now in the process of cleaning out the old membership and making sure that the Ministers give their real name and UPC Lisc. info. If anyone knows Kevin Shindoll they know he is a man of good character. He was our Assit. Pastor here at North Cities until The Baxters decided resign their church and now he Pastors in Indiana. He will do a good job. Right now you can view the entire member list but other than that it's closed.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Very true. Clearly, many of them have ratcheted-down their intensity since you-know-who left, but a few of them still lurk in the shadows, so to speak.

"Defending it"? Praxeas. Please. Just listen to how that sounds!
Why should they have to "defend" the apostolic message on an apostolic forum?

I don't blame anyone at all who felt like leaving. Most of us come to an apostolic forum for edification and fellowship, not for continual head-butting, nor to "defend" the apostolic message from the attacks of ex-apostolics and anti-apostolics. That gets real old after a while.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

I'd say that the justpreachers forum is pretty conservative.
If you are a "liberal" Apostolic preacher you need to be careful what you post over there.
I learned my lesson :)

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

So wheres my invite?

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Carpenter, WholeHearted, and I are still posting. :rolleyes2

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

I still read here and post here. Haven't "left" anywhere.

To Prax and others who say some of us are "not up to" defending the doctrine...let's get real. :)

I've been doing the forum thing for several years now, and I have done more than my share of stepping up to the plate and going round and round with all comers. I'm not intimidated by the recent crop of liberal intelligentsia here, some of whom seem to think their insights are new and fresh...:)

For goodness sake, on old FCF I climbed in the ring with Newman day in and day out. And there aren't too many libs around now that can unzip her Bible cover when it comes to the sort of debate we are talking about. So the old "they are intimidated by people who know the Word and ask questions" deal won't fly. Hogwash.

I have just reached a place after several years of duking it out where I am not as energized about the debate process anymore. I am not so sure it is all that productive for me. In fact, I have begun to feel as if I would be better served to scale back my participation in that kind of debate.

I had a pastor through my teens and early twenties who had been a presbyter for decades. He told me once, in a moment of candor, that he felt he had been on the district board too long. He said he had dealt with so many issues involving unscrupulous preachers, men falling into sin, etc. that it had begun to affect his thinking. He said he found himself wondering if there was anybody that was real, and true. He was becoming suspicious because of dealing so much with the bad apples.

I love this Apostolic message. I love this precious Truth. It is more to me than just an intellectual exercise. It is in my heart and soul, in the marrow of my bones.

I am finding that I am weary of spending signifigant portions of time seeing things unspeakably dear to me mocked and scoffed at.

In the past three years or so, I have seen my wife's home church and my home church both go totally charismatic.

I have seen the devastation that has been wreaked in many lives when the fabric of their souls was wrent by some preacher who thought he had a new revelation, and their mooring was destroyed. I have heard their cynical words and listened to them express their doubts about everything you can imagine now.

I've watched them drift farther and farther from God and truth...people that I love. Some of them my own family.

And so, over time, I guess I have become more and more sensitive about the issue. More and more, when I see the same spirit that wrecked two good churches I loved being given a voice and a platform, rather than climb back in the ring to debate people whose minds are already made up, I just cringe, remember my backslidden loved ones, and click the red X at the right hand corner.

I found FCF about a year before all the changes began to takeplacein the churches I reference.

I was able to tell my family when it all began exactly what the progression would be when our pastor began to articulate the same concepts I read about on FCF. I knew where it was going.

They have since, some of them, admitted that I called it exactly like it turned out. My every sad prediction came to pass.

So honestly, the debate just isn't much fun to me these days.

The Word of God is my life. The propagation of this Truth is what my world is about. It is serious to me. Sacred.

I know all the arguments; I know the counter-arguments. I've been well-schooled on these boards.

But I am not much interested in continuing to fuss the same old fusses over and over again. I don't really enjoy it anymore.

Once in a while I still like to jump in, but the relish is gone.

I'm not mad at anybody, and I have never been a crusader to try and "change" this forum or any other. I don't think I am that important or powerful, and I would never be so presumptuous as to think I should demand that a whole group of folks alter what they are doing just for my personal comfort level. If a place gets to be not so much to my taste, I don't try and get the whole world to get in step with me; I just move on myself.

I am not "abandoning" the forum. There are folks here that I have come to appreciate and enjoy interacting with.

CC1, for example, has proven to be a real friend, not just here but in real life. I love him and his family. We don't agree on some things, but he's my friend. I pray for him. I will always appreciate him.

There are lots of others.

So I will hang around some for that reason. but don't look for me to be as involved in hashing out the same old issues as I have been at other times, because I most likely won't. I'm sure there will be times when I can't resist weighing in on something...but that isn'tlikely to be the norm.

Anyway, I hope you all know that there is no great conspiracy, and no dark, hidden agenda. No deliberate, organized conservative "exodus." Just more than likely the passage of time, and the changes that come with it.

Blessings to you all.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

I can't blame you for being tired of rehashing the same things over and over. I've steered away from that kind of discussion myself for the most part.

I would love to see you dig up the Coon's Den thread and tell us some more of the stories. That is the kind of thing I enjoy about the forum......

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Sis, I don't think the Coon Den ever re-opened here.

We had one on FCF and NFCF, but I never started it here.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Good post brother.
There's a lot of wisdom in those words.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

goodness, and i thought they all went to tulsa, lol,dt

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Bro. Coonskinner,

It was less than a year ago that our chuch was part of a split claiming that our pastor was going charismatic. My parents and many other "ultracons" followed the "charismatic" pastor because of the way things were done by the UPC and the local church. I was totally 100% committed to the UPC and it's goals. Only after leaving can I honestly say I could have never imagined the happiness and peace in my life after leaving. It was only the hand of God that brought us out of the mess of that church. I will say it again. Only God could have stepped in and moved us out of that mess.

The reason I post this is that there are those from our former church and others with an outside view that would think that there has been devestation and loss and confusion. But the honest to goodness truth is that there is a great peace in knowing I don't have to try to reconcile the beliefs of the church/UPC with the bible. It is awesome to be able to witness to folks knowing that they aren't going to step into a church environment that is going to destroy them before they every have the chance to grow. It is awesome to be able to follow the word of God and not a religious system.

Now you do make a good point, during times of transition folks will often have to strip everything away and will start to question everything they have ever believed. Sometimes they will even question if God even exists anymore. But over time they will learn to listen to God and follow his word and be stronger and more mature than you would have ever imagined.

Also, the hardest part of being a "charismatic" is having old friends look at us like we are unsaved and need to be helped. I can't really say anything because they just don't get it and probably never will so I just make them feel like they are right and go on about my business.

:2cents

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

IMO, this post witnesses something true and deep in the Spirit. A place where manmade politic can not influence, or even reach.

The word "charasmatic" becoming a byword is evidence enough for me that the origins of this polarity are fully manmade.

Let every servant answer to his own master.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

You dont have a clue......I love ya...but you dont have a clue!

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

I can certainly identify with this. When we "left" there were all kinds of proclamations of gloom and doom upon our direction, family etc. Unfortunately or fortunately (whichever side you may be looking from) none of those proclamations came true. Freedom does interesting things to people. Some people go wild with it and others just weep over it realizing that it is from the Lord. One thing I have found in my 25yrs of pastoring, and that is that no matter where you draw the line (and I have drawn it extremely conservatively at times) there will always be people who cross it. That will NEVER be done away with. No matter where lines of outward holiness are drawn, you will still have carnal people and spiritual people.

So, it seems that the only logical method of operation, to me, is to draw the lines where the scripture clearly draws them and let people's relationship with God help them fill in the other areas. I have found that it allows me to be the servant God called and not the policeman that others think the ministry is supposed to be.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Well said and so very true.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

........Define Conservative........

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

The Ladies are Ministers Wives...
We even have Felicity and her husband over there...so dont mislable it as a only conservative forum.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Something smells funny............

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

But no lady ministers?

I Believe this lady is a minister if I'm not mistaken.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

That's interesting.

Phil Jones said that it was to be an exclusively "water and Spirit" forum.

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Blow your nose..................:tissue!

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

I'm conservative and I'm still here. :)

Re: Where Have All Of The Conservatives Gone?
 

Excellent post. Due to my being off work I am around more than I used to, but I too grow weary with debating.

Can I be provoked to debate? Sure, but I am focusing more on my relationship with God!

God is good!