Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossils
 

Please explain the existence of dinasour fossils and how it relates to Judeo-Christian values.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

They lived and they died a long time ago, and they turned to fossils. :)

lol

It's all speculation, but you could either go with the thought that they lived concurrent to man at some point and then died out for whatever reason...maybe having to do with the Flood....but...that poses a bit of a problem because it seems there'd have been dinos on the ark in order to go in keeping with their being pairs of everything aboard....and I dunno if the ark would hold all the dinos...lol

Or you could take the days of creation as many years of time each, such as the day = a thousand years thought.... And say that the dinos died out before man was created....

That is a bit hard to explain the carnivorous nature many of the dinos were believed to have had because carnivorous nature didn't exist until after the Fall....



Or, you could ask somebody like CC1, I think he was there when it happened. :D

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

I have never - not once in this lifetime - heard a Christian response to the existence of dinasour fossils.

Anybody know of any good source material?

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

There are animals mentioned in the bible that sound similar to dinosaurs.

The bible tells of huge animals who could drink up a river, with tails like cedar trees etc.

There are several postulates out there as to what happened to the dinosaurs.

One such postulate is that in the time before the flood there was a firmament of water around the earth (Gen 1:6-8) which caused there to be a temperate clime from the north pole to the south pole. The presence of wooly mammoths with tropical vegetation in their trunks in the frozen regions of our planet would tend to testify to this.

Dinosaurs were cold blooded creatures.

After the flood the introduction of the new concept of winter would eventually play havoc on these large cold blooded creatures.

Also... the pre flood era would have tended to have a year round, never ending growing season so the plants grew much bigger.

After the flood the temperature, food supply etc had changed to the point that it could no longer sustain these huge creatures and many of them died off.

Also... fossils are not formed on a large scale very often. Most animals that die tend to be eaten by other animals, parasites etc and do not turn to fossils. Fossils form when a dead animal is sealed off from the normal process of decay. (Such as a world wide hydraulic event)

It would be my guess that most fossils found on this earth were probably the remains of people & animals alive the day that Noah went into the ark and were sealed by that world wide hydraulic event from the process of decay to offer this opportunity for large scale fossilization to take place.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

I've wondered that all myself before.

Maybe God had done this all before and decided to start all over again and take it a step further.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

I've taken this excerpt from an article I remember reading several months ago. The link is at the bottom so you can read it all if you'd like. I thought this might add to the discussion.

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The Bible refers to many the common animals we know today. The list includes lions, wolves, bears, sheep, cattle and dogs along with various kinds of birds, rodents, reptiles, and insects. What is interesting is that this extensive list includes three animals that we no longer recognize. These three are (in the original Hebrew language) tanniyn, b@hemowth (yes, it’s spelled correctly—at least as close as we can get in Roman characters), and livyathan.

Although we alter the spelling of behemoth and Leviathan slightly, we still use those same words in bibles today. However, tanniyn is always translated into another word when we write it in English. Tanniyn occurs 28 times in the Bible and is normally translated “dragon.” It is also translated “serpent,” “sea monster,” “dinosaur,” “great creature,” and “reptile.” Behemoth and Leviathan are relatively specific creatures, perhaps each was a single kind of animal. Tanniyn is a more general term, and it can be thought of as the original version of the word “dinosaur.” The word “dinosaur” was originally coined in 1841, more than three thousand years after the Bible first referred to “Tanniyn.” To make things clearer, we constructed the following table comparing the scientific names with the Biblical names tanniyn, behemoth, and Leviathan.

Reading the Bible carefully, you will realize that no living creature matches the descriptions of behemoth and Leviathan. However, if you grab your kid’s dinosaur book, you will notice several possible matches for each one. Let’s examine those.

Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24


It “eats grass like an ox.”
It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”)
Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.”
“He is the first of the ways of God.”
“He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.”
Some bibles and study bibles will translate the word “behemoth” as “elephant” or “hippopotamus.” Others will put a note at the edge or bottom of the page, stating that behemoth was probably an elephant or a hippopotamus. Although an elephant or hippopotamus can eat grass (or lie in a covert of reeds and marsh), neither an elephant or a hippopotamus has a “tail like a cedar” (that is, a tail like a large, tapered tree trunk). In your kid’s dinosaur book you will find lots of animals that have “tails like a cedar.”

We would expect behemoth to be a large land animal whose bones are like beams of bronze and so forth, so whatever a behemoth is, it is large. A key phrase is “He is the first of the ways of God.” This phrase in the original Hebrew implied that behemoth was the biggest animal created. Although an elephant or a hippopotamus are big, they are less than one-tenth the size of a Brachiosaurus, the largest (complete) dinosaur ever discovered.[1] A Brachiosaurus could therefore easily be described as “the first of the ways of God.”

Comparing all this information to the description in your kid’s dinosaur book, you may come to the conclusion that “behemoth” is not a normal animal, it is a dinosaur—the brachiosaurus. We agree with that conclusion!

Note: Some paleontologists have found fragmentary leg bones, ribs, or vertebrae which they propose belong to “new” sauropods larger than Brachiosaurus. Examples of these include Amphicoelias, Argentinasaurus, Sauroposeidon, Seismosaurus, Supersaurus and Ultrasaurus. There currently is not enough evidence to really determine the size of any of these, and some paleontologists believe that they are merely large examples of known dinosaurs like Brachiosaurus or Diplodocus. In any case, only the “modern scientific name” of behemoth would change. The point would still remain that behemoth refers to a dinosaur, not a “modern animal” like an elephant or hippopotamus.
Leviathan has the following attributes according to Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. This is only a partial listing—just enough to make the point.


“No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up.”
“Who can open the doors of his face, with his terrible teeth all around?”
“His rows of scales are his pride, shut up tightly as with a seal; one is so near another that no air can come between them; they are joined one to another, they stick together and cannot be parted.”
“His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of his nostrils, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes. His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes out of his mouth.”
“Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; nor does spear, dart, or javelin. He regards iron as straw, and bronze as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones become like stubble to him. Darts are regarded as straw; he laughs at the threat of javelins.”
“On earth there is nothing like him, which is made without fear.”
Leviathan “played” in the “great and wide sea” (a paraphrase of Psalm 104 verses 25 and 26—get the exact sense by reading them yourself).
Leviathan is a “reptile [a] that is in the sea.” (Isaiah 27:1)
[a] Note: The word translated “reptile” here is the Hebrew word tanniyn. This shows that “Leviathan” was also a “tanniyn” (dragon).

Unlike behemoth, who is huge, Leviathan is ferocious and terrifying. Many references (we have not listed them all) refer to the sea, so Leviathan is probably a sea creature. Although some bibles refer to Leviathan as an alligator or crocodile (and both of these are fierce) neither of these is a sea creature. They like the water, but they spend much of their time on land. Further, the question “Who can open the doors of his face. . . .” implies that nobody can open Leviathan’s jaws. Although an alligator's jaws cannot normally be forced open, a punch to their sensitive snout or poke in eye might startle them enough to release their grip.[2] Although this is a good description of an alligator characteristic, it does not fit perfectly with the description of Leviathan, which in the context of the Bible was supposed to describe an essentially impossible event, and we are not done yet.

The description of the scales is interesting. Several verses describe these great scales. Compared to Leviathan’s armor, iron is like straw and arrows ca not make it flee. Let’s face it, an arrow can do a lot of damage to a crocodile or alligator. This is not a description of either of them—or any living animal we are aware of.

And now for the key ingredient: fire. It is hard to read Job 41:18-21 without realizing the Bible is telling us that Leviathan breathes fire. That alone will eliminate almost every living animal. Yes, there is one animal like that in today’s world. It is called a bombardier beetle. This beetle is a native of Central America, and has a nozzle in its hind end that acts like a little flame thrower. It sprays a high-temperature jet of gas (fueled by hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide with oxidative enzymes) for protection. Now, if a Central American beetle can do it, so could Leviathan. By the way, crocodiles and alligators are out of the picture on this one, don’t you agree?

Before we leave the topic of fire, there are two more notes you may find interesting:

The history of every culture is filled with stories of fire-breathing dragons. If you think about it, in all the past ages wouldn’t someone have made up a story of a fire-breathing lion or something? Nobody did because the dragon stories are based on truth, and only “dragons” breathed fire. It is easy to imagine Leviathan as a member of the dragon (tanniyn) family. (Plus, Isaiah 27:1 strongly implies this connection.)
Many fossil dinosaur skulls contain unexplained, empty passages. Scientists have not been able to guess the reason for these passages. Would it make sense that some dinosaurs used these passages as “gas tanks” for the combustible mixture used to “breathe fire?” We believe it does.
Comparing all this information to the description in your kid’s dinosaur book, you may come up with the conclusion that Leviathan is a kronosaurus. We have heard (and read) other suggestions, but the kronosaurus is the best match of any known creature to the description of Leviathan.

More here, if you'd like to read it
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Job also mentions the behemoth with a tail like a cedar tree.......sounds like a dinosaur to me. Still doesn't negate the Gospel, even if a alien is in a backpack harness on a bigfoot, riding the lochness monster.......:winkgrin

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

I read an article once that stated that God had wiped out a previous creation here on this earth before us. Supposedly, that is why the earth was "without form" and "void."

Does anyone know anything about that teaching and/or where it originates from?


Is that a prominent doctrine in Christianity?

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

That's what I've always wondered.

After us, he could do it all over again.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

How long were Adam and Eve in the Garden?

The Bible is the recorded history of Mankind, in relation to Jesus. it isnt the history of God, nor the complete history of the earth.

We run into problems trying to make the bible, the record of either God or the Earth.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

It's just hard to wrap your brain around it all when all we know is seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, years, decades and centuries.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

I don't remember how much the book dealt with fossils but I enjoyed Scott M Huse's book "The Collapse Of Evolution"

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

exactly. The scripture says God inhabits eternity. Gen 1 says God created time on the 4th day.

God incased us in his creation called time, but he isnt limited to that creation.

You want to know a secret? I am deathly afraid of "eternity"

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Want to start another thread on that -- it'd be interesting to see what others think about eternity.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Maybe the 7 days of creation were the 7 days that God spoke these things to Moses.

maybe there were long period of time from event to event.

God could have spoke once and it could have all come to pass.

No matter what they did exist and they are part of Gods creation.

There has been a diansour print found with a foot print of a man inside the print of a vary large dinasour...

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

How can one become Eternal after having a beginnning?

Eternal is without beginning or end.

We may enter Gods Eternity.

But we will always be Mortal without end...

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

www.drdino.com



ARPH :doggyrun

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

They don't relate to Judeo-Christian values.....old bones, fossils and dead animals have nothing to do with Judeo-Christian values.

Explain their existence? They exist because there was dinosaurs.......:bored

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Ken Ham and the people at CRI publish good stuff, from the Apostolic Perspective Arlo Molenpah has good stuff, he has a PhD in Science so he is a reliable and well thought out expert, plus his son Sam is a great guy and friend of mine.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Thank God he wasnt Sams son!

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Samson?

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

G.T. Haywood wrote a small pamphlet entitled, "Before The Foundation of the World". In it, he describes each day of creation as being a 7,000 year period. If you read Genesis chapter 1, you will notice that on the 5th day, God said, "let the waters bring forth." On the 6th day, God said, "let the earth bring forth." Haywood says that the 5th day was a 7,000 year period of the dinosaur age. The 6th day is the current period we are living in. The 7th day is a period we have yet to enter. Lucifer's rebellion could have occurred at the end of the 5th day, destroying the dinosaurs. He was already a serpent by the beginning of the 6th day in the garden of Eden.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

i was too smart by half.

Son of Sam?

bad dude.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

I personally believe they (the fossils) are a trick of the devil, put there for the sole purpose of confusing us and causing doubt as it pertains to every children's bible pop-up book version of Creation ever published!

But if you wish to take the plunge, there is some GREAT scientific material from a Christian perspective at www.reasons.org.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Go to
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

From what I understand, this group teaches that there were indeed dinosaurs on the ark. They would have been young animals and not the huge adults. They teach that condition on earth after the flood caused them to die out.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

One idea of many.... (as touched upon by rgcraig)

In the beginning the Earth was without form and void (used up)....

The story of the Garden of Eden begins after satan had been cast down to Earth; hitting it like a gigantic, enormous metiorite that kicked up such a dust storm that the sunshine couldn't get through; the ice age came and the dinasaurs and all other life forms died out....

Then God spoke the words recorded in Genesis... :bubble

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Some believe that there was a race of humans or subhumans who were wiped out and then the earth was recreated. Some teachers believe that demons are the spirits of that pre-Adamic race.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

The lizards and crocodilians (i think all reptiles) don't stop growing until they're dead. Now if Adam missed seeing Noah by only about 125 years, that means he was a very very old man. It seems that before the flood many people live to be over 800 years old. Probably because of the climate before God changed it.

If people lived to be that old then maybe (in all probability) the lizards did too. If a lizard or crocodilian doesn't stop growing until they die imagine how big they would be if they were even 500 years old. With out a huge human population they and other animals ruled most of the earth. A big place to call home to many large animals.

The climate change after the flood seemed to have an effect on the long lives of people and probably the rest of creation also. Thus we don't see the huge lizards anymore.

Fossilization can happen quickly under the right the conditions and the flood would be one of those conditions.

It's only a theory, but a good one I think. Thanks DrDino.com

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

I had a pastor who taught that also. That each "day" of creation was 6000 years long. The 5th day creatures were reptilian or cold blooded. Then the 6th day creatures also included warm blooded animals. He taught that we are currently in that 6th day and when God said, "let us make man in our image" He was speaking to the Church --that God and the Church are making man into the image of God --that image will only be completed at the resurrection when we take on His image and likeness (ref Philippians 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 15:49, 1 John 3:1-3, Psalm 17:15). If I remember correctly, Bro. S.G. Norris also taught that the days of creation were 7000 years long also so this would be a pretty common teaching among ministers who were influenced by Bishop Haywood, Bro. Curts, and Bro. Norris.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

As taught by some:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was (could also be translated "became") without form and void. The words for without form and void are tohu and bohu and were not the way the earth was originally formed according to Isaiah 45:18-19 and Jeremiah 4:23. So, somewhere between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis chapter 1 something happened to make the earth without form and void. Then verse 3 starts the story of the earth's re-creation in 7 periods called "days." There are different ideas as to the actual length of these "days."

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Here's an interesting question I've had. Why do we think all creatures were immortal and weren't carnivorous before the fall?

I've always read about how Romans states,

"12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" - Romans 5:12

But the context reads,

"11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many." - Romans 5:11-15

The subject appears to be more than just physical death, but rather the spiritual death which passed upon all men through transgression and the salvation found in Christ.

I've heard Creationists propose that maybe the atmospheric conditions lent themselves to allowing for eternal life or long ages. But I don't see that explicitly taught in Scripture.

I do see something very interesting though....when God wanted to ensure that Adam would not live forever we see what He did,

"22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." - Genesis 3:22-24

God removed Adam from the garden to prevent him from partaking of the Tree of Life and thereby, live forever. It appears that Adam's longevity and eternal life was predicated upon his access to this tree.

In regards to animals and the proposition that they were immortal and vegetarian, how could this be? Did every animal also have access to the tree of life?

Is it possible that nature outside of the garden and away from the influence of the Tree of Life was quite different from the peaceful eternal existence within the garden?

Just a few questions I've always had. Some of you theologians can share your insights, I'm curious about your thoughts on this.

God bless.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

My son?

Which one?

I have three sons.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

This is easy - Democrats.:gaga

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Such disrespect for the elderly! If we are talking dinosaurs I would have to defer to the AMF brethern or the UPCI staff who thought the pre Haney look of the Pentecostal Herald was leading edge.:gaga

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Check www.geraldschroeder.com

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

You may find it in one of the sources already linked, but I have read an expose' about carbon-dating methods. The carbon dating results that are "fliers" are thrown out. The definition of a flier is any result that doesn't meet the expectations of an evolutionist.

But that is only for recent stuff.

The deep stuff, fossilized in layer of rock, contains no carbon, so the dating is truly a wide estimate based on geological theory.

There are a few stories of finding dinosaur bones in layers that were supposedly merely pre-historic, and so those finds are considered hoaxes or are ignored. There are also stories of finding dinosaur remains in a state of decomposition rather than fossilization - kind of like that woolly mammoth that they found frozen in the ice in Siberia in the 1800s. It was so well preserved, the discoverers cooked some up and ate it!

In addition, early Roman accounts of the inhabitants of Europe describe the sport of the local youth of hunting and slaying an Aur-ox as a rite of passage. An Aur-ox was a bovine creature half again as tall as today's largest bull, and much more aggressive. A single unarmed man stood no chance against it. Yet now it is extinct. The large and ferocious of the animal kingdom have been hunted to extinction by man in countless proven and even known instances. Why not the dinosaurs?

The assumption about the diet and predatory nature of the carnivorous variety of dinosaur is just that: ALL assumption. It is based on the shape and design of the teeth. However, there are several examples of currently living creatures whose teeth are sharp and serrated, yet they are vegetarian. For those whose beliefs require that no creatures ate flesh before the fall of man, it is conceivable that the dinosaurs with long, sharp serrated teeth were made to eat a tougher variety of plant.

God shortened man's days after the flood. No more 959-year-old Methuselahs. Why not the dinosaurs?

Perhaps the flood instigated climate change that was unfavorable to the dinosaurs that rode in the ark.

Perhaps the "Little Ice Age" of the 1400s finished them off?

It's tough to know for sure without a time machine.

While I don't think fossils were placed in rock by the devil, I do think that the prevalent theories can be used to sow seeds of doubt.

Essentially, if the time scales estimated by geologists and paleontologists are way off, it is conceivable that the rock layers that contain dinosaur fossils are sediment that was deposited during the flood, and the dinosaurs were drowned in the flood.

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Welcome to the Forum Newman..... :ursofunny

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

Dunno about the immortal part...

But I take it that God made the herb and fruit of the ground as meat for man and beast to start out with...

Hence the Scriptures that talk about the lion lying with the lamb, and the cow and the bear and the lion eating straw like an ox....restored back to original vegetarian state. :D

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

I have... do you think I can remember his name?

Re: Please Explain the Existence of Dinasour Fossi
 

And, as reminded by your tag line, they were ALL NEKKID too ! ! ! !


(good thing there weren't any thorns or briars, huh?)