David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decision
 

Dear Ministers of the South Texas District:

You will soon receive a 12-minute message on CD from me. As district superintendent, I want to share some thoughts briefly with you about where we are as a district. I thought it best to send this message now by mail, since we scheduled prayer conferences instead of our typical sectional conferences this year and since our district conference does not meet until June. The message also reflects the sentiments of our District Board as expressed in our meeting at the beginning of February.


In this email I want to give you a report on the recent meeting of the General Board. We discussed many items of business, but I would like to mention the three of greatest significance.



1. Belonging to Two Organizations. The UPCI Manual says on p. 46: “No minister shall be permitted to hold license or ordination with any other religious organization or association.” The legal counsel for the UPCI wrote an opinion stating that the General Board is the proper body to determine when this provision applies, and he identified some concerns that need to be considered in this regard. Consequently, the General Board decided that this provision applies to organizations that meet certain criteria such as requiring payment of ministerial dues, requiring subscription to Articles of Faith, and conducting operations that are parallel to the UPCI, even if an organization doesn’t use the precise language of issuing “license.” Specifically, the General Board concluded that it is not proper for someone to be a voting, dues-paying minister of the UPCI and also a voting, dues-paying minister of the new organization called Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship that was recently created at a conference in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Holding such dual ministerial membership could lead to conflicts of interests, since ministers could vote on parallel offices in two different organizations, would be subject to two different Articles of Faith, would be subject to two different procedures for ministerial discipline, and so on. Moreover, some confusion has already been created on the foreign missions field because of WPF leaders contacting and visiting national UPC ministers. The General Board also noted that each District Board has the responsibility and privilege to implement this provision of the Manual according to the circumstances and timing appropriate to each local situation. The Board’s decision was made after much prayer and discussion and with overwhelming consensus.



This ruling does not mean that members of the WPF are “under question,” and therefore it does not prohibit fellowship between members of the two groups. Of course, all of us should continue to follow ministerial ethics and UPCI guidelines in this regard. The Board recognized that a number of good men have chosen to become part of the new group, and there is no desire to disparage them.


In light of this ruling, as district superintendent I appeal to you as follows. (1) If any are considering the possibility of officially joining the WPF, I urge you not to do so. If you wish to have fellowship with WPF ministers or attend WPF-sponsored events, you can do so without becoming a dues-paying member. (2) If any have officially joined the WPF, I urge you not to continue paying dues and not to renew membership after the initial period. (3) If you have any questions or concerns, I urge you to discuss them with your presbyter or with me as district superintendent. Through good communication, I believe we can resolve any difficulties or problems.



Many are curious to know how many ministers have left the UPCI over Resolution 4 (concerning TV advertising) or the WPF. Our general secretary, Jerry Jones, reports that to date 67 ministers have withdrawn or been dropped for nonpayment of dues because of this situation. Of these, 49 are pastors. He explains that this number will increase somewhat because there is still a grace period for those who have dropped for nonpayment of dues, and his office is still waiting to get clarification on some cases. Based on the reported number of cases still being processed, it appears to me that these numbers could double. A number of ministers listed on the WPF General Council have stated that they do not intend to leave the UPCI, and some ministers who have left the UPCI have stated that they do not intend to join the WPF. In our district, I know of one minister who is dropping his license because of this situation. In addition, one minister has dropped for failure to sign the affirmation statement, due to a change of doctrinal views.



2. Spanish Ministry Division. Since Spanish Ministry has grown to about 500 churches and daughter works in the U.S. and Canada, the Planning Committee of the General Board presented a proposal for the formation of a Spanish Ministry Division. After some discussion of finances and operations, the General Board asked for a committee to work on this plan and establish criteria and benchmarks for the development of such a division. It would function on a national level much as the South Texas Spanish Ministry Department currently functions in our district. The proposal will come back to the General Board at its next meeting for further review and consideration. Ultimately, it would need to go to the General Conference for approval. In the meantime, I urge our ministers, especially the pastors of Spanish-speaking churches, to give strong support to the national Spanish Ministry so that we can continue to make progress in this area.



3. The UPCI Position on Holiness and Separation from the World. The General Board had an extended discussion of the importance of maintaining our identity as a holiness movement and upholding our positions in this area as stated in the Articles of Faith. There was a consensus that we need to reaffirm these teachings, and the general superintendent will write a letter to our constituency to express our commitment to them. At the same time, the General Board concluded that it is not enough simply to reaffirm our position, but we must implement practical ways to teach biblical holiness. To accomplish this goal, various means will be employed, including publications, General Conference, Global Impact, and other methods. On a related note, the General Youth Division presented some exciting plans for Youth Congress in 2009 that will incorporate this goal in a positive way while avoiding some problems and concerns that have occurred in the past. The General Youth Division will also develop platform guidelines for Youth Congress and Bible Quizzing participants.



In summary, there was a great spirit of unity and consensus in the General Board meeting. There was a strong commitment to our Apostolic identity and an equally strong commitment to move forward with Global Impact, with the goal of doubling over the next ten years.



Sincerely in Christ Jesus,

David K. Bernard, Superintendent

South Texas District

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

So, it seems we are going to hear an "all holiness, all the time" message?

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

WOW light years better than the last DB letter published here!!!!

Starting to sound like his old self.

Should set aside a lot of fears about WPFers being "under question", and gave some very valid reasons for not being able to support dual memberships.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Sounds like a death march to me... First they lose the Conservatives and now they want to alienate the Liberals?

The UPC will not be stronger by trying to prove to the Conservatives that the UPC can keep a dress standard from 50 years ago. Competitive holiness isn't going to do anyone good. There are too many other choices out there now and too much internet access not to know it.

Instead, let the individual churches seek God about the matter. Let's teach about the fruit of the Spirit, loving our neighbors, and fleeing pornography, fornication and adultery.

Let's teach where the rubber meets the road in the 21st century fully realizing that technology is here to stay. We aren't in Kansas anymore. :cool:

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

As always, good post, Newman.:hanky

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

B-5. Bingo for Newman! Good post!

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Personally don't think its meant to do anything more than appease the conservative faction either still within the UPCI and/or those with dual membership which will be faced with a choice.

By stating such an affirmative action they hope to negate the charge made by the WPF (and THEIR sole excuse for formation), namely the UPCI is "soft" on holiness. Fortunately, there was absolutely NO mention of standards. No Christian should oppose true holiness being taught.

:-)

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Good post Newman!

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Bro. James, this is a great point!

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

so it took a letter from one of the big guns to bring Newman out of hiding!

I got about halfway thru that point and was wondering what you guys would say.

thanks for not dissapointing.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

DING DING DING!!!!

We have a winner!

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Sounds like Newman is advocating that "we must implement practical ways to teach biblical holiness."

It also seems to agree in principle with what Bernard was saying since the quote came from his letter.

:-)

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

It is with great humility I accept the official POTD award. The Ronzie.

:happydance:happydance:happydance

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Newman is right.

The liberals are going to be sick to their stomach when they read this. Many of them that I know were thrilled at the way Youth Congress went last year and disheartened at the reaction all the control freaks had to how it went. This will only serve as another punch in the gut for the "progressives". I talked to one this morning on the phone who had planned to turn in his card by this summer when his father retired from his UPC position but had decided to maybe hang awhile due to what he thinks are positive developments in the last few months. This will gut him. Jones can add one more to his list. Actually DB can too since the guy is in his district. Ironic.

I wonder why they would actively discourage people from joining another Apostolic group? Why would you do that? If people want to go don't talk them out of it. Let 'em go, wish 'em well. Take the high road.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

They didn't lose the conservatives. Some cons chose to leave as did some liberals. It's always been that way

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

:reaction

Not quite! "Holiness and separation" are well-known code words related to Apostolic dress standards; particularly pertaining to the ladies. Although I concede that on occasion, "holiness" is also interpretted as having something to do with not playing team sports depending on rather one is in a hunting area of the country or not and athletically inclined or not.

My initial post was intended to point out the futility and further loss of members that will occur if the UPC mounts a new campain to preserve dress standards from 50 years ago.

There are much more relevant issues right now. We don't need more of the same publications that have been sanctioned by PPH for the last 25 years. :)

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Once again, I agree counselor.......as usual, the UPC is too little too late. About 50 yrs too late.

True, no Christian should decry holiness being taught. But we both know where that will lead and what the messages will sound like. Thank you, as well, counselor! :D

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Who is we????? Are you UPC ???

If not then how exactly is this going to effect you?

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Newman,

Always a pleasure to meet someone even more cynical than myself. LOL

However, the UPCI as a body has made tremendous progress as a whole on these issues over the past decade or so, as evidenced by the very existence of the WPF.

There is a shift afoot in the next generation of leaders to accentuate what they stand for as opposed to against.

As for the "NO" quote, surely you are not saying that holiness should not be emphasized in ANY form?

As for as "code words", I grew up around MW, AM, and others finally coming into positions of true influence, who truly understand holiness is NOT the same as dress code. And as a FORMER UPCI minister in the LA district, and having sat under some true Ultra-Cons I promise I understand the difference.

These moves will be good for the UPCI in the long run.

As will the new understanding that transformation is not the same as reformation through conformity.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Et tu Brute? ROFLOL

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

LOL LOL LOL :D

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

No man is an island. :cool:

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Things the UPC does affect this forum. No man is an island, indeed. :D

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Welcome to the David Bernard era, ladies and gentlemen.

He is defining the agenda for the next decade and quickly positioning himself as the next GS of the UPCI

The org will settle comfortably into a moderate agenda ... and DB will be it's poster boy.

He is articulate and .... dare say ... willing to confront all detractors on all sides.

It will be refreshing to see a GS that has some backbone and is willing to say what's on his mind.


This is proof, imo, that he was among those who pushed for this resolution.

On another note .... it has taken more than a decade to convince the org to allow Spanish ministries to be it's own division ... and the official position was that SEM had to be economically solvent until this ever happened. Interestingly, it still isn't but the org has decided that the fastest growing segment in the org now should have it's own division. I know they don't have the funding for this ... nor does SEM have a secret stash of money in their account ... since HMD kept it all ... but I find the timing of this decision to be politically expedient.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

ahhh...association through ridicule....I like it...

step in the room , smile , wave , be friendly , stab as many as you can and laugh.......

no man is an island ????? junk

and island will never go anywhere.........if your still on the island buddy then obvioulsy you missed the boat..

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Well I have be told if I don't start losing weight I may become confused for one.

:hanky

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Hey Scotty. I responded to a similar post of yours on another thread but you don't seem to have read that. It's post #124 on the following page and the comments by others may be helpful for you as well.

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...=12917&page=13

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

I guess that spiritual segregation is being promoted, what happens to one part of the Body does not affect the other areas of the Body. But, if one part is affected, then the whole will some how experience some repercussions on this.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

My good friend meant post number 124 :-)

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

I do think Newman's analysis is correct. There will be an exodus of moderates if they (the UPC leadership) start banging the separation drum incessantly.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

1. I love holiness. However, I do not believe "holiness" was the actual topic of David Bernard's third point in his letter given that he spoke of "maintaining our identity." That would suggest that he was speaking about a dress standard instead.

2. Surely, a male must realize that that his take on how things are changing may not be the same perspective as a woman who is impacted by standards very differently.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Thank you for pointing this out. This is exactly the kind of behavior I have witnessed which keeps me away from the insidious actions of an organization I have heard of. :D

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Also, DKB stated that we needed to do more than reaffirm our positions relating to holiness and separation.

Does not compute.

Are we being asked for an even stronger committment than our signatures on an affirmation statement?

How far can this go?

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Identity to DB is holiness and Acts 2:38

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Umm... Are you talking to me?

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

How far can this go? Well, as far as reactions can take it. Far too little action and far too much reaction. Nothing has changed nor is it likely to.

The organization has gone into "protection" mode. If numbers go down, offerings go down. If offerings go down, income to the "vatican" goes down. If income to the "vatican" goes down, jobs will have to be cut...... :D

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Look, we all know what DKB believes biblical holiness is. he wrote In Search of Holiness years ago as a sort of primer for the conservative movement in that area.

How do we propose to IMPLEMENT practical ways to teach what he believes biblical holiness is?

The word implement is troublesome.

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Thank you, my good friend. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ons/icon11.gif

Re: David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decis
 

Brother, that ship already sailed last fall.

The situation is, at best, stagnant currently.