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Ron 03-03-2008 12:31 PM
Question--Ethics
 
Let's say that there is a politician that is running for office & you catch him in a lie-would you still support him/her?

Let's say a major corporation owns a chain of shops where one can get thier favourite beverage & it is found out the Corporation supports Abortion & Gay Rights-would you still shop there?

Let's say that there is a Minister caught in a lie-would you still support him/her?

This should be interesting.

RandyWayne 03-03-2008 12:33 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
#1) It depends

#2) Yes. I would still 'shop' there since it is virtually impossible to spend a dollar without some small % going to something you disprove of.

#3) It depends (we ARE all human after all), but would hold to a much higher standard then the politician from question 1.

Ron 03-03-2008 12:34 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 406162)
#1) It depends

#2) Yes. (Would still 'shop' there.)

#3 It depends, but would hold to a much higher standard then the politician from question 1.
Why the uncertainty?

Margies3 03-03-2008 12:44 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 406158)
Let's say that there is a politician that is running for office & you catch him in a lie-would you still support him/her?

Brother, if I personally catch him/her in a lie, then I am much too close to this person. On the other hand, honestly, if we refuse to vote for someone we know has lied, or suspect has lied, then we won't have anyone to vote for. We just have to choose which things they lied about being the most important or least important.

Let's say a major corporation owns a chain of shops where one can get thier favourite beverage & it is found out the Corporation supports Abortion & Gay Rights-would you still shop there?

Probably. This isn't something that is decided on by one individual. It's a corporation thing. I find it hard to punish everyone because of what some have chosen. Besides, what does what I have to drink have to do with they support? NOBODY agrees with me on EVERYTHING. Nor do I agree with any one other person on every little thing.
Let's say that there is a Minister caught in a lie-would you still support him/her?

This should be interesting.
Now as far as the Minister question - honestly, I'd have a hard time convincing myself to support a Minister who was caught in a lie. That's a whole different thing. I can't expect the world to act in a holy and upright manner. But we in the church, including the ministry, but certainly not limited to the ministry, should be striving to do better.

I guess whether I could support someone in that situation or not would depend largely on #1) what they lied about #2) Are they truly sorry and repentant about it.

If they lied and said they hadn't molested a child when they indeed had, then NO WAY I could support them, no matter how repentant they were.

If they lied and said they had missed church because they were sick when really they had been golfing, well, if they were repentant, then ok, I can forgive.

Ron 03-03-2008 12:48 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 406172)
Now as far as the Minister question - honestly, I'd have a hard time convincing myself to support a Minister who was caught in a lie. That's a whole different thing. I can't expect the world to act in a holy and upright manner. But we in the church, including the ministry, but certainly not limited to the ministry, should be striving to do better.

I guess whether I could support someone in that situation or not would depend largely on #1) what they lied about #2) Are they truly sorry and repentant about it.

If they lied and said they hadn't molested a child when they indeed had, then NO WAY I could support them, no matter how repentant they were.

If they lied and said they had missed church because they were sick when really they had been golfing, well, if they were repentant, then ok, I can forgive.
Interesting!

DividedThigh 03-03-2008 12:51 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
sorry i still live in a world of black and white, no, no and no, lol,dt:tissue

QueenEsther 03-03-2008 12:59 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 406158)
Let's say that there is a politician that is running for office & you catch him in a lie-would you still support him/her?

Don't they all?

Let's say a major corporation owns a chain of shops where one can get thier favourite beverage & it is found out the Corporation supports Abortion & Gay Rights-would you still shop there?

I have had mixed feelings about this - on one hand I want to quit shopping at these places but as someone above stated - there is a very high % of places that support these types of lists so I would have to become Amish! Lol!

Let's say that there is a Minister caught in a lie-would you still support him/her?



This should be interesting.
In regards to the minister one I also have to say it would depend! Once they lie it would be VERY hard to trust them again but we are all human and I do NOT expect ministers to be perfect! I think it would be easier to overlook them sinning (adultry, porn, drinking) than to overlook their lying - not because lying is a worse sin but because if they are not honest how can we trust them? If they fell and looked up a porn site and came clean and didn't lie about it then I would know they are human like us and that they are honest therefore I would be able to trust them. JMO. We should treat them the same Christ would treat them. An honest minister would step down for awhile if he messed up I would think and that would show if he really is sincere or not. But if someone has a lying problem then IMO they can't be trusted! :)

Margies3 03-03-2008 01:00 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DividedThigh (Post 406175)
sorry i still live in a world of black and white, no, no and no, lol,dt:tissue
I'd LIKE to live in a world of black and white (at least in theory, I would).

But in today's world, I don't see how that's possible. Which of the presidential candidates haven't lied about something? Even if we don't know about the lies right now, in time, believe me the media will ferret them out. It's a sad world we live in, but the reality of it is that we are basically left with the choosing the lesser of the evils every time we vote.

At the same time, we have to keep in mind that we cannot expect people who are not children of God to act like we can expect the children of God to act. The POWER is not within them.

DividedThigh 03-03-2008 01:02 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 406181)
I'd LIKE to live in a world of black and white (at least in theory, I would).

But in today's world, I don't see how that's possible. Which of the presidential candidates haven't lied about something? Even if we don't know about the lies right now, in time, believe me the media will ferret them out. It's a sad world we live in, but the reality of it is that we are basically left with the choosing the lesser of the evils every time we vote.

At the same time, we have to keep in mind that we cannot expect people who are not children of God to act like we can expect the children of God to act. The POWER is not within them.
agreed sis, but we can try to have our own standards and live within them, dt

Ron 03-03-2008 01:03 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenEsther (Post 406180)
In regards to the minister one I also have to say it would depend! Once they lie it would be VERY hard to trust them again but we are all human and I do NOT expect ministers to be perfect! I think it would be easier to overlook them sinning (adultry, porn, drinking) than to overlook their lying - not because lying is a worse sin but because if they are not honest how can we trust them? If they fell and looked up a porn site and came clean and didn't lie about it then I would know they are human like us and that they are honest therefore I would be able to trust them. JMO. We should treat them the same Christ would treat them. An honest minister would step down for awhile if he messed up I would think and that would show if he really is sincere or not. But if someone has a lying problem then IMO they can't be trusted! :)
Interesting. It is true that a high percentage of Politicians "bend" the truth.
It is also true that a lot of Corporations are using thier funds in ways that would cause a Christian to have a hard time supporting them.

As for a Minister, the only currency they have aside from being called of God is thier integrity.

Ron 03-03-2008 01:04 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DividedThigh (Post 406175)
sorry i still live in a world of black and white, no, no and no, lol,dt:tissue
This the way I tend to be.

Ron 03-03-2008 01:05 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 406181)
I'd LIKE to live in a world of black and white (at least in theory, I would).

But in today's world, I don't see how that's possible. Which of the presidential candidates haven't lied about something? Even if we don't know about the lies right now, in time, believe me the media will ferret them out. It's a sad world we live in, but the reality of it is that we are basically left with the choosing the lesser of the evils every time we vote.

At the same time, we have to keep in mind that we cannot expect people who are not children of God to act like we can expect the children of God to act. The POWER is not within them.
I see what you are saying, but isn't that sad?

Margies3 03-03-2008 01:06 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 406188)
I see what you are saying, but isn't that sad?
yes, it really is. If it wasn't for the Lord, I'd say we couldn't give this old world a minute of hope at all.

Ron 03-03-2008 01:07 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
[QUOTE=Margies3;406191]yes, it really is. If it wasn't for the Lord, I'd say we couldn't give this old world a minute of hope at all.[/QUOTE]

Amen!

My Own Eyes 03-03-2008 01:09 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 406158)
Let's say that there is a politician that is running for office & you catch him in a lie-would you still support him/her?

Let's say a major corporation owns a chain of shops where one can get thier favourite beverage & it is found out the Corporation supports Abortion & Gay Rights-would you still shop there?

Let's say that there is a Minister caught in a lie-would you still support him/her?

This should be interesting.
1. Yes. There may exist a non-lying politician, but I wouldn't put money on it.

2. Maybe. Though If they supported something I have a problem with, I would try to avoid shopping there as much as possible. In this case, I take more issue with the Abortion part, then the Gay Rights thing. I do, as much as possible, try to Boycott Wal-mart, because I think they are pure evil.

3. No. But to be fair, this has more to do with being a minister, than telling a lie. I don't personally support any ministers. (That's not bashing. It's just telling the truth. Please don't infract me! :tissue )

Ron 03-03-2008 01:13 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Own Eyes (Post 406194)
1. Yes. There may exist a non-lying politician, but I wouldn't put money on it.

2. Maybe. Though If they supported something I have a problem with, I would try to avoid shopping there as much as possible. In this case, I take more issue with the Abortion part, then the Gay Rights thing. I do, as much as possible, try to Boycott Wal-mart, because I think they are pure evil.

Amen--but they are cheap!

3. No. But to be fair, this has more to do with being a minister, than telling a lie. I don't personally support any ministers. (That's not bashing. It's just telling the truth. Please don't infract me! :tissue )
So, telling a lie is okay?

Margies3 03-03-2008 01:15 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Own Eyes (Post 406194)
1. Yes. There may exist a non-lying politician, but I wouldn't put money on it.

2. Maybe. Though If they supported something I have a problem with, I would try to avoid shopping there as much as possible. In this case, I take more issue with the Abortion part, then the Gay Rights thing. I do, as much as possible, try to Boycott Wal-mart, because I think they are pure evil.

3. No. But to be fair, this has more to do with being a minister, than telling a lie. I don't personally support any ministers. (That's not bashing. It's just telling the truth. Please don't infract me! :tissue )
I've heard people say that before but nobody has ever told me what makes them evil. Can you tell me? I don't mean that in a nasty way. I'm seriously curious about it.

QueenEsther 03-03-2008 01:16 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Own Eyes (Post 406194)
1. Yes. There may exist a non-lying politician, but I wouldn't put money on it.

2. Maybe. Though If they supported something I have a problem with, I would try to avoid shopping there as much as possible. In this case, I take more issue with the Abortion part, then the Gay Rights thing. I do, as much as possible, try to Boycott Wal-mart, because I think they are pure evil.

3. No. But to be fair, this has more to do with being a minister, than telling a lie. I don't personally support any ministers. (That's not bashing. It's just telling the truth. Please don't infract me! :tissue )

**Off Topic** (apparently we don't have an Off Topic sign smilie anymore)

I just want to ask why you don't support ministers? A "minister" isn't necessarily a "preacher". We all are to be ministers! If someone is hurting or in need we are to "minister" to them - pray for them, feed them, clothe them, help them, etc........ Just curious!

My Own Eyes 03-03-2008 01:18 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 406198)
So, telling a lie is okay?
It's not ok.

But first of all, I have zero interest in politics. I think they are ALL corrupt. And sometimes we have to take the least of many evils. I also think that you can't legislate morality. People have to want to be good. No amount of forcing is going to do it. Even sending people to prison doesn't rehabilitate them, it just keeps them away from us.

Ron 03-03-2008 01:21 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 406201)
I've heard people say that before but nobody has ever told me what makes them evil. Can you tell me? I don't mean that in a nasty way. I'm seriously curious about it.
Corporately, they are money driven not ethics based!
Factories in China are run by people with Mercedes, the workers are basically
slave labourers!

Who is getting fat in money? Not the workers who deserve a fair wage, not a $1.24 a day.

Ron 03-03-2008 01:22 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Own Eyes (Post 406205)
It's not ok.

But first of all, I have zero interest in politics. I think they are ALL corrupt. And sometimes we have to take the least of many evils. I also think that you can't legislate morality. People have to want to be good. No amount of forcing is going to do it. Even sending people to prison doesn't rehabilitate them, it just keeps them away from us.
True!

You do make some good points.

My Own Eyes 03-03-2008 01:23 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margies3 (Post 406201)
I've heard people say that before but nobody has ever told me what makes them evil. Can you tell me? I don't mean that in a nasty way. I'm seriously curious about it.
I will try to give you a short succint answer (to the best of my ability anyway :D)

The problem is Walmart is that they are cheap. That is also why everyone loves them. Trust me, I understand the draw, my husband has been out of work for almost a year.

But the more we shop at walmart the more it costs us in other ways.

First off, they pay there employees nothing, and give them almost no benefits. So guess who is paying for the employees medical care? And their childrens' education? We are.

Also all the outsourcing they do, and the way that they drive the prices down so that OTHER companies have to outsource overseas. With of course, increases unemployement in this country, which of course, ends up costing us more.

There are lots of articles and boycott Walmart websites out there, if you are really interested.

My Own Eyes 03-03-2008 01:30 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenEsther (Post 406204)
**Off Topic** (apparently we don't have an Off Topic sign smilie anymore)

I just want to ask why you don't support ministers? A "minister" isn't necessarily a "preacher". We all are to be ministers! If someone is hurting or in need we are to "minister" to them - pray for them, feed them, clothe them, help them, etc........ Just curious!
I didn't mean it quite like that. I simply meant that as a non-church goer, I do not support anyone in the professional ministry. I do like to think, that in my personal interaction with others, that I minister to them, when I am able.

Ron 03-03-2008 01:33 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
If anyone is so interested, this describes the working conditions of Chinese factory's!

http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/sweatshops.html

Bro-Larry 03-03-2008 05:53 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
I don't think imports from China should even be allowed in USA.

Margies3 03-03-2008 07:20 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro-Larry (Post 406400)
I don't think imports from China should even be allowed in USA.
I tend to agree with you, Larry. But for the record, Wal-Mart is hardly the only store that buys their things from cheap chinese labor mills and then re-sells them here for a huge profit.

I wish I knew of even one big chain store that sold ONLY American made products. Does anyone? I'm curious.

ChristopherHall 03-03-2008 07:25 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 406158)
Let's say that there is a politician that is running for office & you catch him in a lie-would you still support him/her?

Let's say a major corporation owns a chain of shops where one can get thier favourite beverage & it is found out the Corporation supports Abortion & Gay Rights-would you still shop there?

Let's say that there is a Minister caught in a lie-would you still support him/her?

This should be interesting.
Is there a politician who doesn't lie? LOL

Margies3 03-03-2008 07:54 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherHall (Post 406438)
Is there a politician who doesn't lie? LOL
Nope. It's in the job description: "Must be a good liar. Or at least a passable one"

Rev Dooley 03-03-2008 08:24 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 406158)
Let's say that there is a politician that is running for office & you catch him in a lie-would you still support him/her?

Let's say a major corporation owns a chain of shops where one can get thier favourite beverage & it is found out the Corporation supports Abortion & Gay Rights-would you still shop there?

Let's say that there is a Minister caught in a lie-would you still support him/her?

This should be interesting.
The answer across the board is "NO".
Unfortunately, regarding politicians, it's hard to find a truthful one out there.
It has been said that politicians are like bananas:
they all hang together
they're all yellow
and there ain't a straight one in the bunch.

MissBrattified 03-03-2008 08:45 PM
Re: Question--Ethics
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 406158)
Let's say that there is a politician that is running for office & you catch him in a lie-would you still support him/her?
Maybe. It depends on who the other candidates are and what the lie was about.

Quote:
Let's say a major corporation owns a chain of shops where one can get thier favourite beverage & it is found out the Corporation supports Abortion & Gay Rights-would you still shop there?
Maybe. If I were to boycott all the pro-abortion/pro-gay rights stores around here, I would have a very small selection of stores to shop from. Secondly, I don't find any scriptural precedent for refusing to buy a product from someone because they support something we don't approve of. Anyway, if I only bought products from Christians or "wholesome" retailers, when would I ever get the chance to mingle with sinners? I like to shop and say hello to strangers from all walks of life. No bushel for me, thank you.

Quote:
Let's say that there is a Minister caught in a lie-would you still support him/her?
It would depend on what the lie was about, and whether or not he apologized for it. I mean, if he lied about what he had for lunch, that's one thing....:)

If he said, "I did NOT have sex with that woman!", that would be quite another....


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