What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

What are some of the benefits of churches/ministers being independent of a larger religious organization?

Do those benefits outweigh the drawbacks of going it alone?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

For one thing not being pressured all the time for offering.

I'd like to know what are the benefits of being in an org.?

I personally haven't seen any

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

It's only a good thing if the man is loving and led of God.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

I would think one would have more of an opportunity to fellowship when involved in an org..... however, from where I stand, I will travel a great distance to fellowship with others who preached the Word the way I believe it....

Independents don't have to worry about who they fellowship and they don't worry about losing everything because they preach good men who don't hold a card......

Being independent, you don't have to worry about other churches in your org called your DS because of decisions you make concerning your church... Each church should be sovereign

I've been part of the UPC..... I've been independent.....my heart is probably closer in line with the independents.....but then again, there is a broad group of independents out there also ....

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

I will try to give a balanced answer from someone who has walked both paths and is currently a indepedent/awcf and works currently on staff at a UPC church.

I came to a belief that I was not a good fit for the UPC because I could not sign the affirmation statement. I don't own a TV anymore, go to movies anymore, or even rent movies anymore (and its only because I work at a UPC church and want to avoid anyone having a inch to say anything about anything, I actually obey their standards better than the actual UPC ministers). But to teach personal convictions or extra-biblical rules as salvific is wrong.. our church doesnt do that, but we are the exception in the area and are known for being the "squishy UPC church" in the area (and other pastors say they aren't tied into salvation.. but in reality many times they are in actual practice). Also what I found was a disconnect between me and my fellow ministers, I am bi-vocational and enjoy being so, many of them had worked in church work for awhile and had lost touch with the culture in many ways. Also it began to warp their view of the world and how normal people actually live life since their views were rarely challenged and the only feedback they got were from the echo-chamber. All of our ministers including the pastor are bi-vocational and i will admit that makes a huge difference on our outlook on life.

For awhile I felt like I had made a bad mistake when I made a decision to leave my UPC roots since I was told I would buy into false doctrine, etc etc etc. But then I realized there was more out there than the mothership. One of my good friends from IBC (Luke Smith) was the son of the head of the AWCF. And the first time i attended a AWCF event and met dozens and dozens of bishops from different oneness orgs and hundreds of pastors both denominal and independent shattered my thinking about alot of things.

Sometimes its awkward for fellow ministers (not at my church but elsewhere) when they find out im not UPC. They usually ask me why and I tell them with all honesty I couldnt sign the affirmation statement with a good conscience and lie like some of my friends who were still in the org. They usually smile somewhat bashfully because they see a mirror to their own inner thought life in what i say (they themselves usually dont 100% toe the line to the manual.. few actually do).

The saints at times from other churches give me some hassle if im not careful in what i say since words change meaning when your dealing with folks still in the org.. i went to a party recently that I was invited to, and one of the ladies who was a ex-ministers wife was like "so you a minister" to which i said "yes" and she asked me if i was local or general and i told her I was of a different fellowship... then i instantly felt the indefinable feeling that i didnt 'measure up'. its the old debate on here of "your my brother, but am i yours?' she asked me about spiritual authority and i told her i didn't have a bishop in the normal sense and i wasn't accountable to a board in that way... i said it nicely i think, but she got huffy and said a person can't be blessed unless they are under someone, to which i kindly answered that someone for me was Christ and scriptures.

Sometimes as a independent you have to be careful of others you fellowship with and what you say at events since you can easily get attacked and things you say can be warped into a different meaning since they load up words with context "so when he said that.. was he insulting this or that doctrine".

The opportunities to fellowship are less, but the hassle and pain of having to "fit in" are reduced. Its a mixed bag, I would gladly rejoin the UPC if they ditched the affirmation statement and reduced their set of rules and left it up to the local church.

usually if you make friends it will be with pastors outside your area if your a pastor since you are a threat to them. your church will be the example of what will happen if you leave the org... you will become the boogeyman.

Examples here in texas are kenneth philips, jabo green, wendell hutchins, the jones brothers, etc etc etc to infinity... all useful boogeymen even if those doing the horror stories never visit their church themselves.

after studying it alot, the reason people hate those that leave them or are close but not quite like themselves is that they feel like they need to emphasize the differences instead of the commonalities since otherwise it would be to admit the things that seperate them are secondary... which would then force them to either change or accept that others can have a different interpretation and still be saved.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Okay, there are already some awesome posts on this thread. It seems as though the greatest benefit is freedom and the greatest drawback is a dearth of fellowship.

How do you handle the lack of fellowship? Are there other independents close by? Do you fellowship Trinitarians?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Every Sunday.....and even some other days.:bored

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

I am UPC but most of my fellowship is ind. The UPC that I now fellowship I could fellowship if I were ind..

So I can't see the benefits of the org. for fellowship and i would NEVER fellowship a trinny.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

It depends really, if you are in a area like Houston with alot of fellow independents its easy, if your in a harder area you need to travel to events like the AWCF convention or stuff the NCO puts on. Are you a pastor or minister?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Yes I am.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

No worried about peer pressure or play the impress each other game, is one benefit. You can do your own thing without people talking about you, you can experiement try new things and not have to worry about the nay sayers.

But not having the ability to make a contribution to a larger group is a loss in my opinion.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Why are you still a part if you feel this way?

I ask sincerely. Is there a reason you hold on?

Like family?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

AWCF is the way to go, the nice part about the networks like AWCF, NCO, and if your further on the edge Global Network of Ministries is that you can be part of several of them. Promiseland in Austin has a fellowship in austin also.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

What sort of contribution?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

I have my reason, plus I do still have those who ae UPC that I fellowship and they are good men. They feel as I do and their fellowships also limited among UPC.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Several years ago we were independent and our closest fellowship was 8hours away. Now, our preachers would go to some close by but those were not announced to the saints. It was hard for many of us who wanted to go to campmeetings because driving 8 hours away was not an option. The young people had it really rough because even if they met someone at a fellowship they knew that neither pastor would grant them permission to move if they decided to get married....

Even in the lack of fellowship, fellowshipping trinitarians was not and is not an option......

There were many times I would become aggravated because we could have fellowshipped other oneness independents but because their skirts were not as long as ours if the preacher didn't see eye to eye with our preacher, we were not allowed to fellowship.... But as long as I went there, I obeyed and didn't voice my concern..... I may not have agreed, but I did submit myself to that ministry and I did it willingly!

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

This attitude is likely why some officials made statements that many of those interested in WPF have not been contributing much to the organization anyway in recent years.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Has the organization contributed anything into Whole Hearted in the last few years?

Perhaps this is part of the problem. The org thinks its members should serve it instead of the other way around.

Is Hazelwood a Queen Bee and everyone else simple drones?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Say what? I thought it was a way to pool resources in a unified effort to impact and win the world with the Whole Gospel. The fellowship is an added benefit.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

I have been at my present church for nearly two years. Not one visit or phone call did I receive welcoming me to the area or to see just how things were going.

I always go to sectional and district conf. This year I was in the bed with the flu during the sectional conf. Not one call to see where I was or how I was doing.

Great fellowship

But is funny they always fine my phone number at offering time.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

That is what it is supposed to be.

That is what it is not.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

You don't have to be accountable to anyone. TIC of course.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Question. How would you know if you saw a trinny that was independent? I've met some trinitarians that would make even you blook like a liberal. LOL!

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

I know the men I fellowship. I find out about a men and his church before I fellowship them. I don't just meet someone and start fellowshipping them.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Exactly!

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

I don't think there's much a down side to being independent. There is plenty of opportunity for fellowship if you will just make friends with other ministers in your area. There are usually lots of mens conferences, ministry conferences, etc.. to go if you want.

It is definitely nice not to have all the organizational politics to contend with.

The only downsides to leaving an org are, 1) If you're accustomed to having people kiss your ring finger and genuflect when you grace a pulpit then you're in a for a rude awakening when you go into an environment where nobody knows or cares who you are, 2) when you leave some orgs they brand you as a heretic and it's a bummer to have to deal with that, especially if some of them are old friends.

Other than that, my experience as an independent has been a good one. It's about to end as I'm most likely going to be ordained with a real live denomination in the next few months. All good things must come to an end.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

What real live denomination are you talking about?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Yeah, huh???? Inquiring minds!!! :gaga

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

We won't stone you! Just curious. My guess would be AoG.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

He's just bein chicken!!! :chirp :chirp :chirp

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Sorry guys. I had to step away from the computer to change a couple of diapers. I'm a daycare provider during the day and graduate student by night.

Miz, the AoG is way too traditional and uptight for me. Besides I don't want to get the requisite AG smooth haircut and goatee. :)

Anyway, since I grew up in the papist UPC I figured I'd just go all the way and become a Roman Catholic priest. I miss people kissing my ring and genuflecting when I climb into the pulpit. :)

Ok, I'm just kidding. Actually I'm thinking of transferring my ordination from Global to Open Bible. I attend an OB church and will probably going on staff as the pastor of a second congregation in our church. If that happens I'll need to get licensed w/them just to keep the denomination gods happy. It's a small denom that is relatively backwards in alot of ways. But my local pastor is very progressive and says he'll let me get as nutty as I want in order to connect with emerging generations.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

OK, OK, we'll let you off the hook, diapers do come first!

I'm going to have to leave in bit as well, my cousin is getting married this weekend and I am on errand duty today! FUN!!

Open Bible, huh? You truly are a PoMo, aren't you?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Is there a website for this Open Bible?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Have fun. Can you pick me up a box of baby wipes from Costco? Thanks, you're a doll. :)

Yeah, I'm nervous about it to some degree. But I really want to do something about my passion to reach post-modern generations and do all sorts of weird, out-of-the-box stuff that I'm willing to swallow the denominaitonal pill in order to do it. But it shouldn't be all that bad I don't think. I've met the regional people and they're cool. My pastor is very cool and even though I've done my best to freak him out and scare him off he keeps taking me out to lunch and saying I'm the guy to plant this church and he wants to pay for it. Who am I to refuse? We're still talking about it though.

My Dad is a UPC pastor and tells me that it's alot like daycare, pastoring is. Lots of back rubbing, burping, and butt wiping and every now and then you gotta break up a fight and make people play nice. If that's all it is then I guess I'm ready! :)

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

They're trinitarian. Still want the link? :)

Here yar, www.openbible.org

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Doesn't that mean you're Trinitarian as well? :reaction


I guess I put all Trinitarian Pentecostals in the same lump! What makes an Open Bible Church any different from the AoG?

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

Honestly, I'm pretty neutral on the subject. I've told them that I don't think it's a deal breaker either way and they're good with that. I'm just as happy to be labeled Oneness as I am Trinitarian, as heretical as that might seem to some folks on both sides. They're ok w/it and so am I. I'll just not advertise it unnecessarily in order to keep the peace.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

By the time you're done with that, you are too wore out to deal with new converts.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

The devils believe in one God and wet themselves. Scriptures shows an understanding of a oneness doctrine is revelatory. Our priorities are so far out of whacked we have seem to miss the boat. Jesus name batpism is important. Understand a oneness theology. Not that important. Many seem not to separate the two.

Re: What are the Benefits of Being Independent?
 

RFLOL!! That's a good one...wet themselves...haha.

I believe in one God. But I don't wet myself. Sorry. :)