Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you next?
 

My mom brought this story to my attention yesterday.

Will this be precedent for future cases? I think this is flat out wrong and ridiculous.
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Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter? [Could you be next?]

Inside Edition ^| 3/5/08 | Inside Edition


Posted on 03/05/2008 7:59:02 PM PST by Howdy there

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...stody.600x.jpg

11-year-old Libby Mashburn is at the center of a child-custody battle with far-reaching consequences.

Libby's mother says she lost primary custody of her daughter because she was deemed to be too religious.

[A Judge in Alabama ruled that Libby could not be taught the Bible by her Baptist mother.]


Libby tells INSIDE EDITION, "I think children should be able to choose who they want to live with."


Libby's mom Laura Snider is a member of an [large] ultra-conservative Baptist church in Alabama. Libby spends several hours each week attending sermons. On weekends, she goes to Sunday school.[She attends church at the normal times, and for normal lengths. Sunday school, and Sunday AM and PM worship, and Wed. night service.]

The church encourages its parishioners to dress modestly, so Libby's closet is filled with skirts that fall below the knee.


Libby's mom, like other women in the church, doesn't wear makeup or swim in public. When they do swim, they don't wear swimsuits, instead they wear long dresses that Libby shows INSIDE EDITION.


They shun popular culture, so Libby doesn't watch much TV. She's heard of teen idol Hannah Montana but says she has never listened to her music.
[However, as a homeschooled 1st grader, Libby had visited Nepal, and many states in the US. She also tested above 3rd & 4th grade levels in most subjects when she was only 6.She scored on a high school level in vocabulary on the CAT.]


The question is: Should Laura Snider's religious beliefs be a factor in determining custody in a divorce? Libby's mother says the Alabama Supreme Court thinks so. The court awarded 60% custody to Libby's father, William Mashburn.



"We've been punished for our religion," says Brian. "We've been harassed for our religion. You know when you take a child from people because they're too conservative to put her in a situation because that's more "mainstream"...I don't think that's what the law is there to do," he tells INSIDE EDITION.


Across the country, child-custody disputes with religion as the flash point are increasing, and Libby is just the latest kid to get caught in the middle.


More indepth articles here:

Article in the NY Times
Our Daughter Libby, a short movie with full details
Courtroom observers discuss Libby's custody trial

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What say ye?

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

BTW, this woman is Baptist.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

I have a feeling we are not hearing the entire story.

On it's face, this is very alarming.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

Well, as Baptists, these folks don't even have THE TRUTH and are unsaved.
Why do we even waste time talking about them?

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

I would say there must be more issues involved...thousands of kids live by some kind of church rules whether it be baptist, JW or pentecostal kids...even the adventists have their rules along with the mormons...

Hi, Daniel...glad to see you posting.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

I would agree... there has to be something more! Otherwise, these children who attend private christian schools would be targeted because they religion non stop when you think about...at home and at school and then at church......there has to be more to this story!

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

I don't know ... other corroborating stories like the New York Times article states that this religious extremism was the basis the dad's case.

The court I believe also felt that their mom's missionary work took the girl away from her extended family for too long.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

But wouldn't we agree with that?

I mean, if the parents are away saving the world while their daughter is being cared for by someone else?

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

This is a quote from the young girl ... for what it's worth:

“I’m more of my mom’s religion, and my dad sometimes talks bad about my mom,” she said. “He called it a cult, and it’s definitely not a cult. It kind of makes me mad sometimes. Maybe he thinks her religion may be bad for me, but I think mainly he doesn’t like my mom and is using that as an excuse.”

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

Have any of you watched the video? Especially those saying that there must be more to the story.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

The girl was being cared for by someone else?

I must have missed that... where did you see that?

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

I bet the father is divorcing; because Mom is too extreme and cult like in her religion.

Maybe mother is in a dangerous cult type church and father wants to save his little girl.

I bet the Church is the center of the split of this family.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

That cult has already brain washed the little girl.:tissue

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

"In upholding the rulings of lower courts to grant primary custody to Mr. Mashburn, the Supreme Court of Alabama said the Sniders’s involvement in missionary work took Libby away from her extended family in Alabama."

New York Times

I misread this D4T.

It was talking about her EXTENDED family.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

Possibly... and the sexual molestation she has suffered at the hands of her half brother, being left in the vehicle while dad goes into Hooters... being kept out past midnight while dad loads up at Logans...being left alone at the house while dad goes out to drink some more... being babysat by known prostitutes...

An improvement?

The better of the 2 evils?

What say ye?

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

We should agree right??

I mean she doesn't need to be brought up in the evils of the UC's

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

That is how I read it... that she was with her mom & step dad.

I'm not sure what the "missionary" work was but EVERY missionary with young kids, of necessity, keeps them away from their extended family.

I know they went to Nepal at one time.

Thanks for straightening out the reading...

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

TIC?

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

sounds like the mom belongs to one of the baptist chruches in alabama that actually practice there faith, with passion, and the dad is a scum bag, that just isnt right to punish the mom for anything to do with religion unless it is abuse, imho, dt

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

where I live (mid atlantic), since the mid '80's, most any family court will award custody to the child's choice for any child who is 12 years or older...assuming the parent does not have contradicting reasons that already are in the public record.

Marriage is spiritual and divorce is destruction of something that should not be destroyed. The issues (reaping) that flow from these things will always be the source of sorrows, some godly, some of this present world.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

What whiney crybaby the dad is and now even the court, goes along; the mom has the right to raise her daughter in a conservative manner, its no one elses business; it sounds like its just the dad trying to come up with a somewhat valid point where there was/is no other good excuse to win his case, for him it appears to be an ego trip, to win at any cost. I'm sure his attorneys pressed that point, and wha-lah, he wins! I do hope that girls ethics kick in, lets pray for her that she does not fall victim as so many other kids in this country, to the wiles of the devil, evidently her father has.

It could've run either way IF the mom was a party-type gal, (substance abuse, etc.) he'd of made a point of that to win. Seems that little by little its getting popular to punish parents for raising their child up to respect the word of GOD, never mind that the Baptists don't have complete salvation truth, its a START I was baptist for many years, its not the worst thing in the world to be, for a little while IF it leads one to grow spiritually mature. the Baptist I belonged to didn't have a dress code, though., but I've heard that some factions (like this one ) do have the sense to teach modesty., as does our LORD.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

VALID points indeed, but do the 'courts' wanna see that?

OF course not., and then the criminal justice system complains about youth crimes, substance abuses and such., what stupidity reigns in the courts; but what can one expect from gov't entities that think that there should be a division btwn church and state., and what can one expect from a family that is split by 'religious' beliefs, the dad wants to live with abiding by GOD, and the mother does., sounds like a normal thing these days., and even with the mom being 'spiritual' it doesn't guarantee that her daughter will grow up similarly anyway.

But in instances like this custody battle., they DO bring up church or religious beliefs/activities, in a country where freedom of religion is touted and was a basis for this country even BEING, isn't that a conflict of interest(s)? Isn't that a violation of this systems own rules about dividing church/state, yet they bring in her religion?
Hmmm, if I was that mother I'd get a better attorney.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

I think we must be very careful...lots of horrible things go on in the name of God and church....Over the years we have stopped fellowshipping some people because they were way to far out to be normal...

I know a place where the "church" kids are not even allowed to go to Walmart...not that Walmart is all good and no bad...I have never been much in favor of raising kids secluded for when they do get out of the little or big fence around them most do not know how to face the REAL world...

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

and in no means am I saying to leave our kids to try everything without boundries...but I am saying we need to teach our children about the REAL world.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

I think it is safe to say that she has received some experience in facing the "real world" now.

She has been molested, had prostitutes for babysitters, been shown hardcore pornography...

Yep... no more sheltered life for her.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

yes they do allow older kids to choose...

my boss raised her three kids without any support from their dad for years... as they got older, she let them go visit their real dad on Holidays. This past year, her 11 year old son decided he would like to be with dad now and never came back home.

She remarried an executive several years back, and they live a very nice lifestyle... sports cars, luxury home, Paris, Vegas, Disney vacations several times a year... they have a young son together.

The Dad is overseas w/Marines... and so through the whole court proceedings, the son is living in NYC with a step mom.. now how crazy is that???

My boss' heart was broken.. the family has been through so much as she fought for custody of a son she raised by herself when times were really rough.

I can't believe the dead beat dad has any rights...but she said she never asked him for anything after the divorce... never filed for child support or anything... just raised them on her own.

Now she's lost the pre teen.... this is sad.

Divorce hurts, and the court system is crazy today.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

Oh my *gasp*

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

so true, divorce hurts everybody, and those who have not experienced it need to be filled with compassion for those who have, children and adults, i was at church last night, and just gazed around at about 100 people and i counted about 16 different couples that had experienced the ravages of divorce personally, some of them on both sides, god help us be loving and compassionate, and also to defend that little girsl innocence, dt

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

yes:friend

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

Remember Alabama is the state that removed a judge for having the Ten Commandents in the building.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

Any Alabama-ians on AFF?

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

On the face of this, if it is as presented in this article, this is terrifying.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

The rest of the story:

The father has had primary custody since the girl was 6, part of the reason given was the amount of time the mom and step-dad would have her on the mission field.

It is the MOM suing to get back primary custody because the DAD isn't holy enough.

The mom's family sides with the dad that mom's religion does not expose the girl to enough "real" life.

The girls prefers being with the mom (who still has custody approximately 40% of the time).

Her quote:

“I’m more of my mom’s religion, and my dad sometimes talks bad about my mom,” she said. “He called it a cult, and it’s definitely not a cult. It kind of makes me mad sometimes. Maybe he thinks her religion may be bad for me, but I think mainly he doesn’t like my mom and is using that as an excuse.”

Mrs. Snider (the mom) said she understood that Libby might wear pants at her father’s home or go to the movies. But she insisted that Mr. Mashburn not swear or drink in front of Libby or expose her to inappropriate movies and music, which, she said, he has repeatedly done.

Bottom line, it is NOT an activist judge in this case. The courtroom is being placed in a position which it should be, and is not equipped for handling.

My prediction. Girl has a level head. If Alabama has laws like Texas the older she gets the more say she shall have. Neither parent is abusive and although most on this forum would be more sympathetic to the mom, the dad has done nothing (legally) worthy of curtailing his rights. Girl will probably be in primary custody of mom within a couple more years.

Hope that helps.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

Question.

Have you viewed the video?

The good news is that the girl only gets to be sexually molested by her half brother for a few more years. YEAH!!!

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

Digging,

Personally I would emphatically side with the mother.

However, neither of us have first hand knowledge of that particular allegation and the authorities in the case have ruled that it was unsubstantiated.

Having been a prosecutor I have come across many cases of the child being coached and even false memories implanted. (Which watching the video cannot be 100% ruled out).

On the other hand I have also come across unbelievable stupidity on part of certain child protective agencies as far as not fulfilling their duty to defend the child!!!!!!

Having been involved in dozens of these type cases (from the criminal/juvenile side) my gut sides with the mom. However, once custody has been established it is very very difficult to change.

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

I know some Baptists that are more strict than some Pentecostals.

Hey, and they don't speak in tongues and believe in the gifts of the Holy Ghost.

Just imagine how this would pan out if they were Pentecostal????

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

I think Sam was being a bit sarcastic. :)

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

being from the deep south, i can tell you that many baptists dress much more modestly as some would interpret modesty, than say even upc hardliners, very conservative, i even knew methodists in north mississippi that spoke in tongues, gasp, lol,dt:kickcan

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

All the more shame that they are so LOST!

Re: Too Religious to Keep Her Daughter: Are you ne
 

One day this father will regret what he has put this child through. When she is an adult and she pursues a relationship with her mother but ignores him completely, he will have only himself to blame.