Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniarianism?
 

No poll.

Just tell us which view you believe is accurate.

Don't tell us both, cause that's just political correctness and nobody buys that crud.:bored

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

In the current stance propagated by either position, Neither is 'more biblical'.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

What would be Biblical then?

Are you too chicken to take a position Bro?

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Is your attitude too rotten to be nice when you ask questions?


How 'bowt... "What's your stance?" instead...

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

I'll say oneness

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Ronzie, What's your stance?

C'mon now, I know you can answer.

Don't be hatin'.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

There are different shades of Oneness and different shades of Trinitarianism.
How could we ever say that one is right and the other is wrong?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
...
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Trinitarianism is pagan, ploytheistic and wrong.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Oneness....

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one

Some say potata some say potatoe.

You say tomata, I say tomatoe.

With many oneness and people who go to trinitarian churches our views are so close to the same.

Some Trinny's would be rightously indigant toward if you told them they believe in three Gods,

Many oneness folks become uneasy if they are refered to as Jesus Only

Most of us would never greet our congreagation the way paul greeted the churches he wrote to in the epistle's, saying, Grace and peace freom God the Father, AND the lord Jesus Christ.

Why are we uncomfortable with the language of our beloeved King James.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

:hanky

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Which view do you believe is correct?

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

So AE What is you stance? Are (as the old thread says) ALL trinitarians lost?

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Okay ... like old Time Pentyconst ...

a million dollars if you can find the word Trinitarian or Oneness in the bible.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Some time ago I heard (by email) from an individual who questioned whether I was trinity or not. He is part of a UPC near here. I do not know him but someone had forwarded him an email I had sent out. This is a summary of my answer to him back then and is description of what I believe about who Jesus is.
-------------------
Trinity, triunity, triune God, three persons, three manifestations,
three personalities, three personas, three modes. None of these terms
are in the Bible. But some of us use some of these words from time to
time. Just because these words are not in the Bible does not mean they
cannot be used. Like you said, we use the word rapture and that word is
not found in the Bible.

Trinity? Oneness? Why do we even use labels like this?

I don't like these labels, however, if I have to I can say that I am
Oneness and I am also Trinity.

I'm Oneness. I believe in one God. I believe that the Father, the Son,
and the Holy Ghost are all one, one God --not three gods.

I'm Trinity. Trinity is an abbreviation of tri (three) and unity
(united or one). I believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost
are all one, one God --not three gods.

I believe that God is an invisible spirit who fills all space. He is
separate from His creation. This is called His transcendence.

I also believe that that one God is immanent, or close to His creation
and interacts with it.

God is an invisible spirit who throughout the Old Testament has
revealed Himself to humankind as the angel (messenger) of JHVH. This
messenger was both the One who sent and the One who was sent. He was
God above all and separate from humanity and at the same time was God
among us humans. He was the invisible God who became visible. He was
the hidden God who was revealed or made manifest. As the distant God
come near, or as the hidden God revealed, He was called the Word, or
the Logos, or the Memra, or the glory of the Messiah, or Ha Kavod.

He appeared many times in the Old Testament and interacted with
humankind. He appeared to Abram. He wrestled with Jacob. He appeared to
Moses in a burning bush. He appeared to many in Israel as sitting on a
throne or as a pillar of fire or pillar of cloud. He appeared to Isaiah
as God above the temple, filling the temple. He appeared as a fourth
man in a furnace. Etc. Etc. These were temporary manifestations or
revelations of God. This was God revealed. That temporary revelation,
that Word, became flesh and dwelt among us.

After establishing the deity and the humanity of the
Logos/Word/Memra/Ha Kavod, in verses 1 through 17 of the Gospel named
after him, the apostle John went on in verse 18 of that first chapter
and said, "No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son,
or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate
presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and
brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has
made Him known]." Amplified Bible

In the first chapter of First John, the Apostle described this
Word/Logos/Memra/Ha Kavod as
the one who was from the beginning,
the one they heard with their ears,
the one they saw with their eyes,
the one they observed over a period of time,
the one their hands had handled.
the Word.

In other words, when Jesus took on humanity, He was the One true God of
the Old Testament, the invisible God who had made Himself visible over
the years and who had appeared to and interacted with humankind. He was
God the sender and God the sent one.

The doctrine of the trinity is an attempt to understand and explain
God. It was developed over the years. It was an attempt to explain the
God of the Hebrews in Latin and Greek terms and now later on into
English terms. No wonder we've got it so convoluted and difficult.

In the Old Testament, God was:

1 the Father --the One who was the creator and originator of all, the
one Who was above all and sovereign over all.

2 the Word --God revealed, localized, made known, among humankind and
interacting with humankind

3 the Spirit (Spirit of God, Spirit of the Lord, Holy Ghost, etc) --God
working upon, working among, working within people and things,
influencing, empowering, changing, etc.

In the New Testament, God is:

1 the Father --the One who is the creator and originator of all, the
one Who is above all and sovereign over all, the One who caused a virgin to conceive and bear a son, the One who has given us a birth from above so that we are now children of God

2 the Word/Son --God revealed, localized, made known, among humankind, living as a man among men, and interacting with humankind, the One who provided a sacrifice for sin as the Lamb of God

3 the Spirit (Spirit of God, Spirit of the Lord, Holy Ghost, Spirit of Jesus, Christ in us, etc) --God working upon, working among, working within people and things, influencing, empowering, changing, etc.

Is this Oneness or Trinity?
The answer is "yes."

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

I thin there is enough error on the topic to be shared with both camps.

I have heard a trinitarian tell me that he did believe in three Gods.

I have heard some oneness proponents butcher the scripture to try to prove their view.

Me ? I believe firmly in one God, the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe in the Shema, unwaverling

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

I've heard of one-steppers and three-steppers, but now I see we have a third class of Pentecostals - Side-steppers.

I only asked which doctrinal view you believe is correct. The topic does not include salvation. Only which view is Biblical.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Cop-out.

Answer the question, please sir.

Are you Oneness, or Trinitarian?

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

I believe in One God who has revealed himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

I have learned on AFF all terms must be defined before anyone can take a stance!

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

And still more Oneness that all of Y'all!!!

Where is that Trinitarian Appreciation thread I started?

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Some times we make it salvational and some times we think a person's salvation depends on how we as finite humans understand and explain an infinite God.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

I do however believe in ONE God. And that is biblical!

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

As well as Counselor, Comforter, Husband, Provider, Mercy Giver, Defender, Lover, Friend, Confidant, Strong Tower, Great and Mighty Hero, and so on...

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

That too.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Ohhhhh. Both views are taken from various scriptues in the bible.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

LOL! Side-steppers. I love it! You are too funny!!!

I believe Jesus Christ is Lord.

I believe the Holy Ghost is God's spirit in me.

I believe Jesus Christ was God incarnate.

I believe in ONE GOD.

Does that make me "Oneness" you ask? Not sure, because I certainly do NOT believe all that OPs believe. So I guess I need a definition of ONENESS from you before I can answer.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

The Oneness model to understanding our God is easiest for me to comprehend for many reasons ... most probably because I grew up in it...

I think this issue is mostly about focus, my friends.

Oneness believers focus heavily on the deity of Jesus Christ while still acknowledging the distinctions in how God has chosen to reveal himself to humanity ....

Trinitarians focus a lot of their energies on celebrating the distinctions of God while still acknowledging the deity of Jesus Christ ....

Two sides of a coin that need examination.

I truly believe:

... the existence of this often circular debate revolves around:

1. semantics over words such as persons, distinctions, modes, etc.

2. pride in presenting facts, figures,scripture, grammar, logic, scholarship and Church history while debunking the other side's facts, figures, logic, interpretation of scripture, grammar, scholarship and Church history. {I want to be right and prove you wrong while never admitting when I am wrong}

3. prejudices and hatreds based on a century old feud

eventually leading to more circular debates on:

4. the proper baptismal formula and questioning the other's salvation

and most often culminates in:

5. name calling, sensitivities hurt, and insults
---------------------------

In the end, this is what matters ... both sides whole heartedly agree and believe in:

1. One God
2.The Mighty God in Christ
3. Jesus is fully man and fully God
4. Jesus is the Son of God
5. Jesus died for our sins and was raised to give us new life.
6. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

I'd like to see us discuss this issue responsibly, in a Christ-like manner, and w/o the hurt feelings and defensive postures.

Once again, I'll reiterate ... the minute I can fully explain and define an infinite and Almighty God ... He ceases to be God ....

and I've become an idolater.

Lastly, I am yet to meet a Trinitarian that believes in 3 Gods ... most modern trinitarians use a lot of Oneness language, also.

I know to some their God box means everything ... but when will we let God be God?

If we have His Spirit we are all His.

I'm for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ ... him crucified and resurrected ... not the Gospel of Full Understanding.

So you guys continue to wrap your minds around the I am .... have fun.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Do you believe there are three persons in the Godhead?

Do you believe those three persons are coequal, coexistant and coeternal?

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Cutting out the verbage of either side I think Oneness is more accurate.

The bible never says they are distinct PERSONS...infact persons is a vague term for many, Trinitarians use pronouns to say "persons", but there are two words used in the greek to mean person..one is inward person....the core identity or WHO and there is the outward person....many Oneness would say the word manifestation or mode here.

In the greek the term Hypostasis is used to mean that inward person. It literally means foundation...what lies beneath.

And then there is the word prosopon, which means mask or outward. Prosopon is used quite often in scriptures and is even translated person. Hypostasis is used only once and of the Father.

Prosopon is also translated presense....refers to the Spirit of God and also of the Son...

So I would say there is one hypostasis (Heb 1:3) and at least two prosopons.

One of those prosopons has a complete human nature...which gives him a human mind and will and in that prosopon he empties (Kenosis) himself if the Divine nature so he can fully function as a human being like us (Phil 2)

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Daniel: this one of the wisest posts I have ever seen on the topic.

I only wish I could type half as good as you, as to convey what I believe on htese threads.

I type like Moses talked.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Dan, you sound confused, mystified....unsettled.

Let me know if I can clear some things up for you, okay?

See ya buddy!:friend

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

This is un biblical language.

i have seen many condemn trinnys for say saying three persons, while in the same breath say there are three offices.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Classic trintarianism states there is one God in three persons who are coequal, coexistant and coeternal.

Are you saying that statement is a wrong view of God?

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

True. My mother and sister believe this and they claim to be Trinitarian. They also believe that Jesus is God.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Here is a presentation on the Trinity from a trinitarian perspective.
http://www.bible.org/assets/ttp/tr-session7_video.asx

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

All One.


One, by the joining of many... not 'persons' but rather attributes or character qualities... like threads of a rope, or facets of a diamond.

NOTHING is singular in this world. Even a rock is made up of many components. It's made up of different compounds. Those compounds are made up of elements. The elements are made up of atoms. The atoms are made up of particles. The particles are made up of sub-particles, etc...

Biblical Hebraic thought is much different than our westernized modern thought. They use the word Ekhad to describe God being 'one'. It means one by the joining of many. It's exactly the picture I just described. One, not singular in number, but combined, by the joining of many. And again, it's not referring to 'persons'. It's referring to attributes. This is why the Hebrew word for God is Elohim. It's multiples. It's the word they use for the one true God and also for gods. When referring to God himself, it's still used in plural sense. Not because they see him as a bunch of gods, but because they recognize that there's just SO MUCH to him that you can't simply say "God" and include it all. It's taking into consideration his infinite attributes, too many to number.

When they use the word "face" they are really saying faces, because we all have many faces. When you look at someone, they are rarely ever making the exact same face. It moves, it morphs, it changes as you or they speak. Same concept.

There is a huge object lesson here.

People, being made in the image (a faint image mind you) of God, are the same way. You are not just you. You're made up of all the different things that make you YOU. Your wants, your needs, your desires, your experiences, your history, your environment, your emotions, your thoughts... everything combines to make you who you are.

Each thread of the rope is different, but they all combine to make one rope. The rope does not exist without the threads. Each thread ties into the next to make the rope stronger and more robust.

Each facet of a diamond adds to the beauty of the stone. They enhance one another and play off one another as the light sparkles within it. Each one plays a part in making the diamond gorgeous, yet the diamond does not exist without them.


To limit God to 'three' strands or facets is showing a lack of understanding of his nature. It's over simplifying him. It's doing him an injustice, and it's insulting to him.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Some may say this and view God corectly while others may say this and have an imprpoer view of God.

I do think the one God of the bible should be describd as three persons. So in my opinion i would not agree with the staement as it stands.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

No fair, you took my answer.

I'm another "neither" vote.

Re: Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniariani
 

Interpretation seems to be....

* we can't possibly know or understand God
* doctrine isn't as important as relationship to a completely undefinable, unknowable God.


Which often seems to lead to....


*doctrinal shipwrecks
*paganism
*judgementalism towards moral absolutists.