Flippantly Flaunted Spiritual Liberties
 

Flippantly Flaunted Spiritual Liberties .....

Seems that there are those that love to hang around the edges of UPCI ministry......

They love the fellowship......

They love the conferences and brotherhood.....

And some find great joy in flippantly flaunting their spiritual liberties.....

Saying things like....

I can do this.....

I am able to participate in this certain activity.....

There is no scripture for this particular thing so I do it.....

Or my family does.......

The manual does not prohibit this so I will do it......

My membership in said organization does not say that I cannot do this.....

My brothers......

The flaunting of spiritual liberties is a reproach....

It reaks of legalism....

Legalism is the attempt to see how close to the world one can go but still be in the church.....

Spiritual liberties flaunted in the face of others is legalistic.....

More plainly it is classless.....

Ah yes...we have all seen the ultra conservatives in their moments of holier than thou ism's

They are wrong....

But just as wrong is the flippant flaunting of spiritual liberties.......

This is more legalistic than the ultra converative's stand on many issues.....

Whatever happened to the Pauline concept of....

If meat offend my brother then I will eat no meat?

What we see today is.....

Meat offends my brother, so I offer him cowpie.....

Very good points.
Attitudes can stink on both sides of any issue or judiciously drawn line.

I have never flaunted my being Liberal to the likes of your standards.

It sounds to me like you have only seen the negative from a small number of folks.

If I took the small cross section of folks in my city who go the UPCI church I attended for 27 years and the snarl on their face.

Should I use that to prove some are just holier than thou???

There will be occasion for us to cross paths at conferences, weddings, funerals etc.

Much of this is to be considered because we have family, friends etc in the organization.

To me your comments sound like these interactions might be threatening to you.

Don't show up at our holy meetings, because you are now lost...

In that some may see that giving up some things not in the scriptures might not be a chasing God out of your life experience.

Your comments are more the norm.

We do not sit around our churches talking about how much bondage you and your associates are still bound in.....

We look to walk among you and call you brother and sister.

All you can congure up is you are offending me...

Show us by your humility, Apostolic power, revivial, healings, leading of the spirit, growth, Baptism in the Name of Jesus, Oneness, HG outPouring, Gifts of the Spirit......

Sorry to say these are all attributes of the church I attend as well.

Nathan Eckstadt

If meat offend my brother then I will eat no meat? Well let HIM get over it. The weakling.

Offence goes both ways.

I must be careful to not offend my brother with my liberty but my brother also has a responsibility to not offend with his lack of it.

I eat meat. He's a vegetarian. May both be allowed to eat in peace and harmony. :D

Love the title of this thread........ "Flippantly Flaunted Spiritual Liberty"

It could be retitled ...

Flippantly Flaunted Spiritual Strictures or ....

Flippantly Flaunted Spiritual Suppression


;) :)

Not coming from his side.

I understand his side. I'm just having fun. :)

By the way...........

Welcome to AFF Bro R Kent Smith! :meetya

Sorry to have gotten under your skin......

The only skin you need to get into or under is between the cowhide covers...

The Bible....

Nathan Eckstadt

Actually this thread is just repost from two other forums. The author has a serious bone with a certain poster and can't seem to let it go.
BTW, the poster is not me.

If that is true, isn't it best to go to that brother?

Great post, Bro. Smith!

I have friends on both sides...if someone has the wrong spirit it will be theirs and not mine for I made up my mind a long time ago how I would live...and part of that was not condemning those that feel stricter or more liberal...I will have to answer to God for Janice Alvear...I do not plan to wound any of God's people. If I am too strict please pray for me, if I am too liberal please pray for me...
"For by this shall all men KNOW that ye are my disciple IF you have love one for another..." Jesus.

Amen! Exactly how I feel! Great post Sis Alvear!

Might I add one thing?

Whatever I believe, may God help me never to get a wrong attitude or spirit over it.

POTD!

Can you explain how "it's not in the manual so I can do it" is flaunting spiritual liberties? What does that mean? Do you mean flaunting like declaring it to a crowd of a thousand people that you can do something others don't feel they can, or is it just doing something...just having the liberaty?

What? Did you invent that definition? Legalism does not mean seeing how close to the world one can go but still be in the church. Where on earth did you learn that? Also how is having liberty, which the bible says we have seeing how close one can get to the world? How is doing something that the bible does not forbid or the manual somehow "the world"....you've left out a LOT of details. On the surface what you posted here really makes no sense.

Sorry but that simply is just NOT the definition of legalism
www.dictionary.com
1. strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence, to law or prescription, esp. to the letter rather than the spirit.
2.Theology. a.the doctrine that salvation is gained through good works. b.the judging of conduct in terms of adherence to precise laws.

Im not even sure what "it" is....being able to do something that the bible does not forbid is not worldy or legalistic.....

This is nothing but a fancy undefined buzzword. Flippant means disrespectful...how in the examples "My brothers...." is that disrespectful to someone? How in your examples is "The bible doesn't say" flippant? How in your example is "The manual doesn't say" flippant?

Nothing personal, but I don't think you know what some pf the words that you using actually mean. You don't seem to know what legalism means.

What about it? What is this in reference to? Can you be more specific please? Who is violating that and how?

Beautiful, as always!

Guy....

How does my posting something indicate that I have an issue with another poster....

Is this the thread that says post the stuff here that you want to because you don't like that other guy....

Grow up

*bump* for R Kent Smith.

I agree with your spirit...

Nathan Eckstadt

Ron,
I agree with your spirit as well.

Nathan Eckstadt

Thank you.....

Isn't your definition of growing up, "listhen to me?".

You are welcome sir.

May I ask you a question?

Would you leave the UPCI over this television issue if the majority vote for the resolution?

Dan already answered this for me.....

How can we effect change if we leave?

No I will not leave

Nick...how long did it take to develope such an attitude

I have family in the UPCI. My father was a minister from 1960-1978 when he passed away.

He taught at many of the bible colleges.

Many of the pastors, friends and family I still associate with tell me I have the right attitude.

I do not flaunt any so called liberties not does my wife.

I have a sister who still is married to a UPCI minister.

We all function together just fine.

We do not push words as was addressed in your Thread.

It is perfectly fine that you are in the place you are today.

The right attitide is to shake a man's hand the first time you meet.

Here you go brother let's shake hands.

Nathan Eckstadt

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...tadt/Hands.jpg

:thumbsup

I'm seriously glad to hear this.

Nice to meet you....

I met you dad as a young person....

Our Dad's were aquainted.....

God Bless

Legalism as defined by scripture not by some big wig conservative California is one who takes scriptural mandate and selectively chooses where and if applicable. The pharisees wanted the woman caught in adultery stoned to death, but they protected the man involved in the affair. How ironic the woman went away forgiven. No word about if the man received forgiveness, or for that fact if he asked for.

Neocons are quick to point out not offending the brether but are the first in line to offend when others don't conform with their religiosity. I hope and pray I offend every neocon. I don't have time to play cheesey religion with unbilical mandates. At our church people have been getting baptized in Jesus Name, people have been getting baptized with the Holy Ghost. Addictions have been broken. Families restored, healings, devils are cast out. That my friend is freedom. There ain't nothing in a skirt that comes close to that.

Thnx for the heads up... should have read this before I posted...

The closer I get to God the more I believe tradition is the last stronghold the devil has on the church. Once the man made tradition is out of the way God's church is unstoppable...

But will they see this in time?

With God all things are possible.

Taking liberty and making it legalism is certain a new ~~twist~~ on this whole issue for me. LOL. :)

I can understand the concern about television, I truly can. I don't have much use for it myself and feel like most people and most homes are better off without it for a number of reasons ...... one being the absolute filth, drivel and ungodliness that makes up most television programming ..... not to mention the fact that it absolutely is an insult to my intelligence and insults the Holy Spirit who is supposed to be Lord and Master of my life.

But the fact is that it's no longer an issue in many UP churches even with the stipulations in place and it hasn't been an issue in many churches for some time now. It's a moot issue ... a non-issue ..... for many moderate and even more conservative pastors, preachers and evangelists.

Many if not most OP churches have members in leadership positions and sitting on elder and deacon boards who have one or several TVs in their homes.

Television is here to stay like it or not. If a person can make use of it to get the message of the Gospel out then it helps to redeem the the total uselessness and banality of the majority of what comes across this particular medium.

I think that a lot of the people who are crusaders for the resolution are just caught up in the issue and don't understand totally what it really is that they're crusading for.

That is what so many men before you have stated.

Once they found out that staying for change sake.

Means from 1974-2007 the UPCI is still debating a medium such as TV.

Now that the Medium is becoming old technology they are just now maybe catching up.

Many of the champions are either dead or retired.

The men who split from the 1.5 decade old Assembly of God back in 1916 realized as you should today.

Men in position and prominence will not change unless along with 153 other men they stand up.

Tip their hats, straighten their creased pants, click their heels.

And never look back......

Without the willingness to rebuke the issues of their day there would not be a UPCI.

So today we take the Apostolic faith from the fetters of the
1940-1950's culture to the movement of Joel's "Latter Rain".

It shall be greater than the former......

These fetters are on more folks no longer in any church then they are on anyone who goes to a Con or Liberal so called church.



Nathan Eckstadt

This is true, Felicity...once we have turned something into the proverbial 'sacred cow', letting go of it is a difficult thing. It causes others to few us as inconsistent or *sigh* 'compromisers'.

I fear it is going to divide God's people in a way in which we may never fully comprehend...just my thoughts...

I know it's been said before, but you have a beautiful spirit! :thumbsup

My sentiments, Mother A...great post!!:clap