Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

I’ve been studying the Sabbath and I’m kinda, “in a ditch”. I need some of you more knowledgeable types to help me.

Here’s where I’m at a loss…

The Sabbath Commandment is in the Ten Commandments:

'Exod 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.'

I used to see this commandment as though it was commanding a day of rest devoted to the Lord. I thought that what better day to choose for the Christian than Sunday, the day when Christ arose from the dead. I was also taught that we observe the Sabbath “spiritually” by entering into the “rest” of Jesus when I obeyed the gospel and now everyday is a “sabbath” wherein I rest from the “works of the law”. But then I read this passage and something jumped out at me. It specifically calls us to set apart the “seventh day” by stated that “the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD.” That leaves us little room in choosing which day to set apart for rest and worship. That detail keeps gnawing at me.

The Ten Commandments also state:

Exod 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

In my mind these commandments are to be obeyed as they are written. I’m struggling with reconciling the “spiritual Sabbath” idea because who would spiritualize the commandment against adultery? No one would say that it doesn’t matter what woman you have relations with, this is about choosing only Jesus as your Lord. So I feel an uneasiness in relation to the Sabbath day, according to Scripture this is the “seventh day” regardless as to the spiritual dimensions of Christ’s rest during this gospel era.

I sought to relieve these feelings by calling on Colossians 2:16-17…

Col 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come: but the body is of Christ.

But in my studies I discovered that this may not be talking about the “Sabbath Day” in the Ten Commandments, but rather it may be speaking of the High Holy Days of the Jewish calendar that served as days of convalescence. For example the Passover was regarded as not only a feast day…but a “sabbath”. One could claim that this doesn’t cancel out the moral Law of the Ten Commandments with some merit. Also Romans 14:5-6 has been used to resolve this situation, but the focus seems to be on ethnic holidays not necessarily a day that is commanded by God’s moral Law.

Jesus said,

Matt 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What about the Sabbath Day as commanded in the Ten Commandants? Are we teaching men to break that commandment by not teaching that the “seventh day” be observed as holy unto the Lord? So I turned to the book of Acts. Here’s what I found:

Acts 13:13-16 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Acts13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Paul even turned to the Gentiles on the Sabbath:

Acts 13:44-46 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 15:19-22 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Luke writes:

Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Paul’s custom was to teach on the Sabbath:

Acts 17:1-2 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 18:1-4 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome: ) and came unto them. And because he was of the came craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers. And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

It appears that Paul taught quite a bit on the Sabbath Day. We read of one instance in which Paul teaches on the “first day” or Sunday:

Acts 20:1-7 And after the uproar was ceased, Paul called unto him the disciples, and embraced them, and departed for to go into Macedonia. And when he had gone over those parts, and had given them much exhortation, he came into Greece, And there abode three months. And when the Jews laid wait for him, as he was about to sail into Syria, he purposed to return through Macedonia. And there accompanied him into Asia Sopater of Berea; and of the Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus; and Gaius of Derbe, and Timotheus; and of Asia, Tychicus and Trophimus. These going before tarried for us at Troas. And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days. And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

It appears that Paul at least held one study with these disciples on the day after the Sabbath when they would fellowship and break bread. And all know that Paul advised that an offering be set aside on the first day of the week among the Corinthians:

I Cor 16:1-2 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

It appears that Paul wanted the Corinthians to begin setting aside their offerings on the first day of the week so that there would be no need for additional gathers when he came to pick up the offering for the saints struggling in famine.

My problem is that neither of these two verses appear strong enough to say that it was the practice of the Apostles to gather on Sunday instead of Saturday; nor are they sufficient to nullify the Sabbath commandment in the Ten Commandments.

I have a friend who’s a Seventh Day Sabbath keeper. I once asked him if he kept the Sabbath laws as commanded by Moses. He explained that the Sabbath laws as commanded by Moses were ceremonial and nailed to the cross….however the Ten Commandments command us to set aside the “seventh” day to rest and keep it holy unto the LORD for worship. His contention is that the Ten Commandments (moral law) only commands rest and reverence not the Mosaic legalism of the Law of Moses. I was speechless and had nothing to respond with.

Now it’s bothering me bros. Can someone help me out with this one?

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

There is no New Testament directive anywhere to keep a sabbath day. After the cross we read nothing of Jesus EVER keeping the sabbath.

Paul only preached in synagogues on the sabbath because that is where the Jews, whom he sought to reach, were in one place together at a time to effectively preach to them all, and Paul had access to the synagogues at that time.

They only observed sabbath when they were with other Jews.

After Acts 18 nothing is said about sabbath day.

Every day belongs to the Lord. In fact sabbath helps the error that we serve God one day a week and then do what we want the rest of the week. lol

There is no sabbath day now. It was a law thing.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

To add to this, my friend believes that it is prophesied that God’s people will restore the seventh day Sabbath observance after many generations of neglecting it:

Isaiah 58:12-14 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Is it prophesied that God’s people will restore Sabbath observance?

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

I’m going to ask questions on this in favor of Sabbath keeping in the hopes that you can address my concerns. God bless you Bro. Blume.

That’s an argument from silence so it really doesn’t hold much weight. We don’t read of him specifically not observing the Sabbath either.

What about the references regarding Paul speaking to the Gentiles on the Sabbath?

Again, that’s an argument from silence.

Sabbath keepers don’t believe that one serves God only one day a week. They believe in keeping the Ten Commandments, which leads them to observe the seventh day as commanded. Do you believe in keeping the Ten Commandments Bro. Blume?

The Sabbath originated with creation and was only institutionalized under the Law. The Law required many legalistic requirements of the Sabbath, but these were to ensure that the Sabbath was kept; these laws didn’t establish the Sabbath.

Are we to keep the Ten Commandments? Yes or No?

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...hlight=noahide

Read above thread. The answer according to the Jew is no.

The ten commandments were not intended for the gentile.

A righteous gentile need only keep the seven.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

I'll just add my 2 cents to the mix. Hope it helps.

1... The Sabbath was not something given to mankind in and of itself. The Sabbath was given to the Nation of Israel. The Sabbath was a sign between God and the Nation of Israel.

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. (Deut 5:15)

13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
(Ex 31:13-17)

2... No one observed the Sabbath before God gave it to Moses. If the Sabbath was something God intended for all his creation to keep, why did not one keep it before God gave it to Moses & Israel in the wilderness?
We have to see the significance in the fact neither Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, etc... <---none of these OT saints were asked to keep the sabbath before the Law came.

Thus, the Sabbath commandment is not for us in the church age.
*****

Furthermore, when Christians say that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday, they're kinda missing the point. The New Testament doesn't say the Sabbath was changed. That just misses the key issue entirely. The fact is that we are no longer required to keep a "sabbath" day...and over time the Church began to keep Sunday over Saturday as its preferred "day of the Lord".

Keep in mind that Paul and the first Apostles were Jews, so just from their tradition, Saturday was the Lord's day. So it would be natural that they continued to gather on Saturday as their "sabbath" or day of the Lord. That doesn't mean the Sabbath is still a requirement for the church.

Keep in mind that Paul made it clear that if a man chooses to keep Saturday a preferred holy day he can do that, but he is not required to, nor should he judge anyone who chooses not to do so. (Romans 5:4-6)

4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

and Col 2:16-17

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

So don't be sidetracked by Sabbatarians that say that "there's no NT scripture that nullifies the Sabbath commandment." Being under grace, not under the Law of Moses, the church is not required to keep the sabbath, as Israel was.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

In this case, silence says volumes. We need direct teachings before we are to engage in anything. Unless we are told to keep the sabbath, then why keep it?

If the bible was to lay out everything NOT TO DO, rather than ONLY relate WHAT TO DO, then the world could not contain the books that would have to be written. Therefore, common sense leaves us to conclude that we do not keep anything that the New Testament does not directly tell us to keep.

Catholics told me that babies were not said to not be baptized, so why preach against it?

The context says they saw Paul do so to the Jews on the sabbath and simply asked him to do the same. It certainly does not show Paul kept sabbath.

Not really. It shows nothing about teaching sabbath was ever mentioned in the New Testament.

I believe I keep all the commandments. And sabbath day was a shadow of actual sabbath rest which the New Testament mentions by way of the eternal rest, in Heb 4. SO I keep the body of Christ and not the Old Testament shadow of a day.

Nothing was said about man keeping any sabbath before law. We only read God rested the seventh day, with no requirements for man to do the same until Law came.

Sure. But the 4th, between the first three that deal with God, and the remaining 6 that deal with man, the sabbath is unique. It alone of the commandments was a shadow of the body of Christ. I have the body so I keep the fourth, too.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Amen. People in the northern polar region would have to keep one day holy for what we would see as several weeks, since it is seventh sundown to sundown.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Colossians 2:15-17

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Does he also believe the Anti-Christ will institute "Sunday Laws" and that worship on SUnday is the mark of the beast?

Anyways...aside from the SDA types...consider that ALL those commandments are reiterated in the New Testament BUT for the Sabbath day observance.

The Sabbath, like circumcision, was a covenant sign to Israel. We are in the NEW Covenant now though.

According to how the sabbath was originally intended it was NOT a day of worship but a day of rest.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Praise the Lord, welcome to the discussion. Again, I’m going to go to bat for Sabbath keeping with some strong statements. This is in the hopes that some of you can address my concerns. God bless you.

Here’s what Paul wrote to Timothy:

I Timothy 1:8-11 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Paul said that the law (moral Law) was good if used lawfully…Paul didn’t omit anything from the Law. The Noahide tradition is of Jewish origin, the Jews do not define what Gentiles are bound to obey…God does. And God doesn’t change. The Moral Law of the Ten Commandments is eternal Jesus himself said,

Matt 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Law of God (the Ten Commandments) is eternal, majestic, and holy.

Please note…God established the Sabbath BEFORE there was a Jew…therefore the Sabbath isn’t “Jewish”…it’s eternal and grounded in the very pattern of the Creation. The Law only set stipulations by which the Jew was to observe it…the Law didn’t establish the Sabbath.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Antipas...

The Sabbath was never given to anyone before Exodus 16, after God had brought the nation of Israel out of Egypt.

And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
(Ex 16:23)

....so how do you conclude that "God established the Sabbath before there was a Jew"?

Please explain that to us.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

That is not an argument from silence. Look, if the bible never ever from Genesis to Revelation mentions a rest day and you come along and say "Well the bible never mentions not doing it, so we SHOULD do it" then that would be an argument from silence.

It's an important argument. Why SHOULD we keep the sabbath if the bible does not say we have to keep the sabbath? That is not an argument from silence. It's pointing out that we have a NEW COVENANT and in the NC we are not told we have to keep a sabbath day rest.

It was not just gentiles but Jews. The Gentiles in this case below were converts to Judaism. The Jews still kept the sabbath day.

Act 13:42 As they went out, the people begged that these things might be told them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:43 And after the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who, as they spoke with them, urged them to continue in the grace of God.

What did Paul do on the first day of the week though? He gathered with the church
Act 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

1Co 16:2 On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

One reason for gathering as a church on the first day (the Lord's day, the day of His resurrection) was so on the Sabbath they can go to the Jews and evangelize

Prove it is. Just saying it is so does not make it so. Pointing out that the NT does not command us to keep the Sabbath is not an argument from silence. A command is.....a COMMAND. And there IS NO COMMAND. That is the whole point. In the New Covenant there IS NO COMMAND to do this or that. That is a valid point. You are arguing we have a commandment to keep....but that commandment is for an Old Covenant.

I believe in the commandment of Love. We are under LOVE and under LOVE we are expressly taught what we are to do or not do. It's in the New Testament.

No. We are to keep the New Law which is given under a New Covenant. In that New Covenant you can find what a sin is...the works of the flesh. Not once are we told that includes not keeping sabbath days

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Are the Ten Commandments...commandments?

The argument from silence doesn't speak volumes. For the writers of Scripture often take for granted regular practices or experiences. For example nowhere does the Scripture state that the Philippian Jailor spoke in tongues or was baptized in the Holy Ghost. Why didn't the writer write about it? Because in Luke's mind it was a given, a no brainer, assumed that the reader wouldn't know any other process.

Are you saying that the Ten Commandments are not binding?

That doesn't compare. We see repeated references to the Sabbath being kept and even repeated commandments to keep it. It appears that the Church may have continued keeping the Sabbath seeing the references in Acts. However, the authors would have been taking it for granted not knowing that hundreds of years later the days would be shifted. For example in the Revelation John writes that he was in the Spirit on, "the Lord's day". We often assume that was Sunday...but the only "Lord's day" John would have known would have been the Sabbath day...for that is the only day in Scripture refered to as being such. As for infant baptism...we see it NOWHERE. So the two really don't compare.

Why didn't any Jew ever condemn Paul or any Christian for not keeping the Sabbath?

Again the writers may not have needed to address a universal understanding.

Nowhere does Scripture call the weekly Sabbath (the seventh day Sabbath) a shadow. The sabbaths refered to as being shadows are the high holy days of the Jewish Calander...they are not part of the Ten Commandments.

God established the Sabbath at Creation and having created man on the sixth day, kept man at rest in the garden on the Seventh Day.

The Sabbath deals with God...God is commanding a time set apart for him, so it has to do with our dealing with God. Would one "spiritualize" the commandment against adultery?

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

BTW circumcision was established before the law too...how many sabbath keepers want to identify with the judaizers in demanding you have to be circumcised too?

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Jews see no issue with keeping the Sabbath in exotic environments. I think that's grasping for dismal.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

it is NOT an argument from silence.

The Sabbath was a covenant sign for Israel under the Old Covenant

Exo 31:13 "You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

The "sabbaths" refered to are not "the Sabbath" of the Commandments. The sabbaths refered to are the days of convalescense established in the Jewish feast days. Paul isn't nullifying the Ten Commandments.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Paul specifically equates baptism with circumscision...so yes.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Antipas, feel free to respond to the question I asked you (in post #12),

.... or to the scripture references I gave you in my post before that (post #6).

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

No he does not equate it with circumcision. He says we are circumcised in the heart, not flesh.


But since you brought that up, hebrews speaks of another rest

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Antipas, you skipped over several of my posts for that one on circumcision, can you address the others?

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

I noticed he seemed to be selective about what posts he chooses to respond to.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Oh I only pointed to a thread, Avahat Elohim wrote it: but since you didn't click on the thread I'll cut and paste it for you:

There have been many opinions expressed on this topic here. Especially in regard to keeping Shabbat.

May I present the Jewish perspective?

God loves us all. "Righteous people of all nations have a share in the world to come" (Sanhedrin 105a). He does not leave anyone, Jew or non-Jew without guidance. To the non-Jew He has given the Seven Commandments.

After the flood which killed everyone but Noah and his family, God sealed a covenant with Noah with the following seven admonitions:

1. Prohibition of Idolatry: You shall not have any idols before God.
2. Prohibition of Murder: You shall not murder.
3. Prohibition of Theft: You shall not steal.
4. Prohibition of Sexual Promiscuity: You shall not commit adultery.
5. Prohibition of Blasphemy: You shall not blaspheme God's name.
6. Prohibition of Cruelty to Animals: Do not eat flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive.
7. Requirement to have just Laws: You shall set up an effective judiciary to fairly judge observance of the preceding six laws

These Seven Laws of Noah are a set of seven moral imperatives which, according to the Talmud, were given by God to Noah as a binding set of laws for all mankind. Judaism states any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as a Righteous Gentile and is assured of a place in the world to come. Adherents are often called "B'nei Noah" (Children of Noah) or "Noahides" and often network in Jewish synagogues.

In Judaism, the ten commandments given Moses and the resulting 613 mitzvot or "commandments" given in the written Torah, as well as their reasonings in the oral Torah, were only issued to the Jews and are therefore only binding upon them, having inherited the obligation from their ancestors. Some Rabbinic opinion holds that not only are non-Jews not obligated to adhere to all the laws of the Torah, but they are actually forbidden to observe them. Rabbinic Judaism AND its modern-day descendants discourage proselytization. The Noahide Laws are regarded as the way through which non-Jews can have a direct and meaningful relationship with God or at least comply with the minimal requisites of civilization and of divine law.

The Talmud states a non-Jew who keeps the Noahide Law in all its details is said to attain the same spiritual and moral level as Israel's own Kohen Gadol (high priest). In a similar statement Maimonides states in his work Mishneh Torah that a non-Jew who is precise in the observance of these Seven Noahide commandments is considered to be a "Righteous Gentile" and has earned a place in the world to come.

Some such as Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Chabad Lubavitch world Jewish movement believe that the Noahide Laws observance by all humankind will bring about universal peace and the Messianic Redemption.

(However, according to Maimonides, a gentile is considered righteous only if a person follows the Noahide laws specifically because he or she considers them to be of divine origin, through the Torah, and not if they are merely considered to be intellectually compelling or good rules for living.)

From the perspective of traditional halakhah, if a non-Jew keeps all of the laws covered by the Seven Noahide commandments, then he or she is considered a Ger Toshav "Sojourning Alien" amid the people of Israel. A "Ger Toshav" is the only kind of non-Jew who Jewish law permits to live among the Jewish people in the Land of Israel when the land is run according to Halacha and there is Sanhedrin/Temple.

(A Ger Toshav should not be confused with a Ger Tzedek who is a person who prefers to proceed to total conversion to Judaism, a procedure that is traditionally discouraged by Judaism and allowed to take place only after much thought and deliberation over converting.)

At this point I am sure there are others better qualified who would like to take up the discussion on the following topic:

It my understanding that the main disagreement among the early “apostles” was because the gentiles converts to Yeshua where considered by some to be Ger Tzedek and therefore should also obey all the mitzvot, but one Apostle Paul argued that Christianity was not just a division of Judaism and the gentiles should not bring themselves under the law, but were instead saved by “grace.”

(Perhaps part of the reason some thought the gentile coverts to Christianity to be Ger Tzedek may have been in part because of the baptism rituals practiced by Christians, which so closely mirrored those followed by gentiles who converted to Judaism, but that will be a different article).

Shalom

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

A change of covenants is too serious a matter to leave anyone guessing what and what not is retained. I claim Rom 14 shows sabbath keeping is offkey today as well as Col 2 and Gal 4.

Of course! That is because the REST of the New Testament showed it forth.

No. Why think that? I am saying that the 10- Commandments are all repeated in the New Covenant except for the fourth. And the fourth is directly said to be fulfilled in Christ in Col 2, Gal 4, and is spoken against in Rom 14.

Never were we told to keep sabbath in the New Testament. Never. It stands that the Bible could not tell us all the things to NOT do, for there would be too many.

We cannot base doctirne on what would appear. Imagine if salvation were left up to what appeared to be the case without direct teaching about it?

God inspired the writers knowing we would be reading this thousands of years later.

Yes they do compare. The Sabbath was never called the LORD'S DAY, for one thing.

Paul did not want that to be an issue to throw walls up before the Jews. He became all things to all people so that he might win some.

Sabbath day was a sabbath. lol.

Col 2 mentions SABBATH DAYS, and does not distinguish them.

Show me where God told man to rest back there.

God spiritualized sabbath, not me. And adultery has a spiritual version as well as physical, but not so with sabbath any more. And I already said the sabbath was unique in that sense.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

It is an issue. Jews excused demands to properly keep every law with the Babylonian Talmud anyway. Sundown to sundown is the commandment and does not work everywhere.

I think you keep sabbath, or are going to, and are using this idea of taking the sabbath side as a ruse. lol

My example shows that sabbath was meant for ISRAEL ALONE, and not the world. God was not stupid. He said sundown to sundown. However way any Jews twist that today is still a twist.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Note that the Bible does not contain these seven laws in Noah's account, but it appears in Jewish writings Christians do not consider inspired of God.

A Jew regards a gentile as violating the first Noahide Law against idolatry if he/she believes Jesus is God incarnate. Pass the Noahide laws and in time Christianity will be illegal.

Carry on! :D

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Some interesting comments I also found on the 'net regarding the topic at hand:

Sabbatarians Are Not Keeping The Saturday Sabbath


Saturday Sabbatarians claim to keep the Sabbath command as was given to Israel, but in reality are only keeping a modified Sabbath regulation, which is not keeping it at all! Below are three reasons why this is so:


(A) In the OT, when this command was given to Israel and enforced, people were to be put to death for desecrating the Sabbath (Ex. 31:14,15):

"Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested" (Exo. 31:14-17).

A man was put to death for violating this command (Num. 15:32-36). So the same ones (Israel) that kept the Sabbath put to death Sabbath violators. Sabbatarians are NOT doing this!

(B) The Sabbath keepers were NOT allowed to light a fire on the Sabbath day:

"Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day" (Ex. 35:3, KJV).

If your heat in the winter is automatic through your furnace, you are violating this command. If you light your stove on the Sabbath you violate this command. If have an automatic hot water heater you are violating this command. Finally, if you start your car on the Sabbath, you have also violated this command given to Israel. Note: When you start your car, you start a fire that did not exist moments before.

(C) On "EVERY Sabbath" there is to be a burnt offering:

"On the Sabbath day, make an offering of two lambs a year old without defect, together with its drink offering and a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil. This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering" (Num. 28:9,10).

This OT command for Sabbath keepers is clearly forbidden under the New Covenant in light of the book of Hebrews. The early Christians didn't do this and, therefore, did not keep the Saturday Sabbath command like Israel (Ex. 20:8-11 cf. Num. 28:9,10).


(full article here: http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/sabbath.htm)

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

I am a former SDA, and there's a sister in my assembly who is also a former SDA, and we joke about our time with that group and our sabbath keeping.

Antipas,
I DO believe in the "spiritual sabbath" as you say. I believe ALL the moral Law has been magnified and "spiritualized" if you will. It's not "Thou shall not commit adultery" it's "Thou shalt not lust" for me, and it's not "Thou shall not murder" it is "Thou shall not hate thy brother", this is what has happened with the Ten Commandments, and as for #4, I now find my rest in Christ. I don't even try to argue with sabbath keepers about Sunday, because Sunday has no special significance. Worship on Saturday or Sunday if you want, it doesn't matter. Rest from your labor when you desire, as long as you are not "resting" all the time, which would be lazy, and a Christian wouldn't want to be lazy anyways. And rest spiritually knowing that Christ did HIS work on the cross and nailed the Law to the cross!

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Antipas,
Here are my thoughts. I belive the entire law of moses 613 commands was in effect until the death of Christ and subsequent resurrection.

Matt 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When was all fulfilled,
John 19:30
Hebrews 9:15-17
Ephesians 2:13-16
Hebrews 7:12, 18-19,22

You asked, “Are you saying that the Ten Commandments are not binding?”
I believe that all of the law was done away with, including the 10 commandments which were part of the law. (similar to what church of christ teaches-exceprt for I equate the law with the 613 laws, not the entire old testament, which is their error, and why they think they have to preach against musical instruments).
However, 9 of the 10 commandments are repeated, and even taken to a higher level (ex. adultery can be mental, not only physical).

I think that silence on the sabbath, combined with the teachings from Hebrews 4 and Colossians 2, as well as romans 14, is quite a bit of teaching on the subject. It is not binding, in fact it is basically impossible to keep as laid out in the Old testament.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Antipas has gotten kinda quiet lately.

Kinda strange.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

He's resting...

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Cut him a break this was his first attempt at "theological" posts.

:-)

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

The sabbath was specifically a covenant sign to Israel as part of the Old Covenant.

Which covenant was replaced by the New Covenant. Which in turn begs the question of whether or not it is a New Covenant teaching. Which gives support to questioning or pointing what if anything the NT says or does not say on it.

Paul said to not let anyone judge you in pertaining to Sabbaths as well as other things. They had problems with judaizers.

Circumcision was not a requirement though that preceeded the law.

The Apostolic council, which met to determine what the Gentiles should keep as pertaining to the Law never mentioned the Sabbath though they mentioned blood and foots offered to idols.

Anti-Pas...I summed up our arguments for you when you get back from "resting"..... :toofunny

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

I think you are making an assumption here.
Because it is recorded that some early disciples received an experience which we call the Holy Ghost baptism (HGB), and because it is recorded that some of these who received that experience spoke with tongues and prophesied, does not mean that all early disciples had that same (HGB) experience or that they spoke with tongues.

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But I know what Sabbatarians say about that! They claim the mention of synagogues after that statement is meant to inform the gentiles they can hear about the rest from the synagogues. They do not realize it is actually saying the gentiles had better be told all they have to deal with, or else the synagogues will add more rules to them.

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I think the purpose of this is that since there are Jews in every city and those Jews would be easily offended at gentiles eating food offered to idols and blood. So in order to help win the lost they told the Gentiles from abstaining.

This I get from reading what Paul later said about food and idols

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Circumcision also isn't an issue of the Ten Commandments. It's important to separate the Law of God (the moral law - Ten Commandments) from the Law of Moses (social and ceremonial laws).

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Don't get me wrong guys...you're giving me good stuff to work with. I'm just going back and studying the subject and presenting things about it that come to mind. So if I'm a bit slow responding on topic remember, I have to look into it.

Re: Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day
 

Judaism doesn't define us or the Bible.