Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't so.
 

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Of course not. Silly question.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Dan,

Don't your brain ever shut down?:toofunny

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Is the batizee paying the baptizer with monopoly money or peanut shells? And if they video this act is there a portly person at the bottom of the screen in a circle to translate?

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Could someone in any circle be saved if when being baptized, the praise and worship team were singing so loud that nobody could hear the pastor say any words and no deaf person or person of hearing could read lips at the baptism?

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I do know of a deaf mute that was saved. Although the person who baptized her was not as far as I know. I don't think the NAME has to be spoken out loud as long as the hearts of both know and of course our Father knows the intents of both hearts. It is not what is in the head Daniel, but what is in the heart, and we know God knows the intent of our hearts. That of course does not give ground to the scripture however, as we know we must be born again of the water and of the spirit. The death mute I speak of could make some sounds and could sign very well as could her family and some of her friends.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I have been witness to deaf receiving the Holy Ghost just like everyone else, speakign in other tongues. When praying with a deaf you utilize sign and ask them to use their voice. They are baptized in Jesus name just like everyone else:) whether in sign or english, spanish...whatever:)

Blessings, Rhoni

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Um ... no.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

By virtue ... a deaf person can speak ... but my question applies to a deaf/mute ...

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Can't they just sign in tongues??

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Daniel, I will have to do make some phone calls but I believe that a deaf/mute was filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke out loud in an unknown tongue. Will let you know.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Um ... not possible ... I also stated in my question that said persons do not know how to sign ...

Can the baptizer still baptize the person in Jesus name ....?
Will the believer still be baptized in the Spirit if there is no "initial" evidence of speaking in tongues?

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I met a mute that spoke in tongues when the Spirit of God moved upon him.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Rarely is a deaf person mute...that is an ancient term...used about 35 years ago.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Absolutely. Ther is only one way to get the Holy Ghost!

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

In Daniel's scenario, NO!
But then there is God. Who doesn't need any language.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I did go to church with a deaf/mute years ago. She could make some sounds, but no words that were recognizable. Is that still considered mute?

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

My wife is deaf and she has spoken in tongues. When she went to college in Jackson, MS she took maybe 10 or 12 deaf people to church with her and most of them spoke in tongues as well.

I think she took them to Bro. Dillon's church in Madison.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

With all the Apostolic power around here, I would think somebody would 'cast out" that deaf and dumb spirit, then they could speak and think like the rest of us...

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Granted this may come across as blasphemy in some circles.

What is said over the candidate is not paramount.

In baptism "in the name of" means by whose authority.

What most don't take into account is that the candidate and baptizer don't just magically appear in the water together with no interaction beforehand.

The candidate has had a previous communication and repented, declared Jesus Christ as their Lord, determined to follow Him in all things, and wish to be identified with the body of believers.

If this has not happened prior to baptism, then it really doesn't matter if anything is said in the water the person is just getting wet.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

My thoughts exactly ... but if this scenario were to come up ... and the 3 step view is true ... man ... what a dilemma!!!!

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

When there are other ways to communicate Daniel, there should be no problems. No matter how many steps there are.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

There is a very short time in which speech must develop during childhood or it won't happen. I believe if they don't learn how to speak by the time they are about 6-10 yrs old, they will not be able to learn. The speech centers of the brain shrink and learning will be impossible. Making sounds that aren't parts of speech would be considered mute, yes.

I saw an interesting documentary on children who were found as teens living on the streets that couldn't speak. They were homeless and had never been around people to interact. One such child did nothing but walk around on all fours, barking like a dog. Turns out, he was raised by a pack of dogs while living on the street. His mannerisms were totally canine, even snarling and growling and eating.

They said he would never be able to speak because the speech centers were gone in his brain already, but teaching sign language is possible. They can learn the language and hear just fine, but are unable to speak. I found that to be astounding.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I don't spose we could imagine God knows who is refered to when he hears "in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost" ??

No ..surely God is not that smart ( T.I.C.) He'd rather sit back and disqualify someones heart felt repentance and commitment to him, on a technicality.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Science has shown that speaking tongues activates areas of the brain other than the areas that govern speech...in other words brain scans show that it's not the speaker who is doing the talking:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/health/07brain.html

The deaf and mute speak in tongues without any problem when the Spirit moves upon them. Many of us have seen this.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I have seen it many times.:happydanceFor hearing or deaf..it is God doing the speaking and I don't see it as being any more difficult for God either way.

Blessings, Rhoni

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

[QUOTE=Encryptus;468055]Granted this may come across as blasphemy in some circles.

What is said over the candidate is not paramount.

In baptism "in the name of" means by whose authority.


This is not accurate..! In fact looking at all the Scripture verses on baptism, it is ridiculous. You have seen too many episodes of Pistolsmoke or some other Western shows where the Sheriff or Marshall says 'stop in the name of the law"

I am beginning to wonder if anyone's brain has ever started on this thread. When are you going to start one on "did Adam have a bellybutton?"???

WHERE IS THE APOSTOLIC FORM????

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I think it's difficult to use the authority of one without calling upon the power and authority behind their name. The ancients placed much importance on the spoken name. To speak a name was to invoke all power and authority involved. It was so sacred they guarded the Tetragrammaton and even stopped and cleansed their quills when writing the sacred name's consonants.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

"Ooooommmmmm"

Your point here???

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

For real? They've done brain scans on people while they are speaking in tongues?? Or am I missing something?

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

This is not an answer to your question but don't you just love it when a deaf person is baptized in the Holy Spirit and their fingers and hands start going crazy!!!????:happydance

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Hey JamDat...would you mind if I made a nick "JamDis"? Den we can be dis n dat....

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

stir the pot Daniel go ahead

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

It IS for real -I remember when the article first came out.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

Wow, I mean wow that would be cool! :bliss

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

So tongues can be turned on and off like a faucet or what? How does one get 'in the spirit' when having a brain scan??

They must be better Christians than I.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

In the past I have thought similarly.

Many here would disagree that tongues cannot be entered into intentionally and also that tongues signifies the devoutness of a Christian.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I don't see any scriptural support for people speaking in tongues at will. During prayer or when God was moving, yes, but not just any old time. Then again, I haven't read every scripture, so I'm interested if there are examples of this in scripture or anything alluding to that phenomenon.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I think it goes without saying those being tested were really praying... otherwise the point of the test would be moot.

One reason to believe that one can "will himself" to speak in tongues is to observe people speaking in tongues when it is out of order (per Paul instruction). I have no reason to think these are any less "genuine" then other utterances in "tongues" that are more in order.

As to scriptural support... that would be it. Paul recognized folks were speaking in tongues when they should not be. So though tongues may be impromptu, one may still will himself to do it or not.

Re: Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't
 

I've been in Pentecost most of my 39 years and I've never known of anyone that claimed to speak in tongues at will. I've heard people testify or sing and suddenly start speaking in tongues, but not like at the kitchen table or while grocery shopping or other casual settings where prayer or worship wasn't going on.

I don't know about brain scans, but I've had MRI and CT scans on my head and I had to lay still without speaking for those tests. So I'm puzzled as to how those tests were done and how accurate they are if the subjects were moving their heads. It's impossible to speak and not move your head in some way.