Divorce - Adultery Thread
 

Yes, let's talk about family law that would burden a woman with all the children of the marriage union being dissolved with little to no child support that may or may not get paid forcing her into poverty, and having to work a minimum wage job, and go on food stamps while the High Priest of the home is out dating and having the time of his life: no wife, no kids, and no responsibility.

I do agree that men and women do not know their place due to war, and women have to go into the workplace to support their families, and wear pants to be more appropriately and modestly dressed to work in factories and such. And the men lost their control on the family when the woman had to support, discipline, and teach the children.

Furthermore, men have enjoyed letting their wives work so they can have off to go to campmeetings, preach in foreign countries, and let the local church take care of their families.

Let's see how many men, in the same position as women, would enjoy spending their young years; pregnant, overweight, bloated, nausiated, exhausted, with gestational diabetes, and have their men tell them how beautiful other women are, as they clean house, wash, clothe, and feed a small army while the husbands wages aren't enough to feed two much less 7-10. Of course, in her spare time she can sew and make all her children's clothing, and go out and kill deer or alligators to make them shoes.:tic "Submission my eye"!

AMEN:happydance


Since more than 50% of first mariages end in divorce and an even higher percentage of 2nd marriages...chances are, Apostolic or not...the woman will be raising them by herself.

:reactionJust thought I'd add my $.02 since I have so many avid fans on this particular thread!

Blessings, Rhoni:tissue

Divorce - Adultery Thread
 

The way I see it, you are too. Unless I misunderstand what you are saying.

And do you even have an inkling what brought all of this upon our dear American society?

No-fault divorce law. There is no way you're going to drag me into this particular corner of your fantasy world. When a man with children gets divorced, he is completely at the mercy of his ex-wife. All it takes is a few little white lies and the police are there enforcing restraining orders, limiting custody and eliminating visitation. A woman can set the full spectrum of government machinery into motion against an ex-husband if she so desires, and their policies are to act first and worry about proof and probable cause later. A man is guilty of whatever the woman says he is guilty of until he is proven innocent. I have been very close to 3 cases like this. In one, the woman got tired of having to drive to the halfway point for visitation, so she lied about the man's treatment of the kids so the court would restrict his visitation rights and place the burden on him to make the full trip.

Sour grapes?
This is largely an American phenomenon, the belief that people can get through their lives with a minimum of inconvenience, much less suffering. It's a shame how late in life some people end up accepting that it isn't God's plan for people, even the righteous, to go through their entire lives without hardship. Without hardship, faith is unproved. Proverbs 31 shows what a woman can do to gain esteem in her husband's eyes.

There is also much to be said for training girls in the art of the husband selection process.
Are you waving your blessigns?

What is your source for this, Rhoni? I thought the accepted notion was 50% of ALL marriages, and that something along the line of 30% - 40% of FIRST marriages end in divorce. I think that the official party line is considerably bleaker than the true numbers revealed by some recent studies. First marriages in the church have a much better chance than those not in church, or second or third marriages.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest?
 

I would like to chime in on this thread, particularly this part of this post.

I think it is quite sad that divorce has become an option among apostolics. When I was married to my one and only wife some 20 years ago, I said "til death do us part", and I meant it. Now it has not been easy. We have lived through many troubled times. Jobs and no jobs. Hurt backs. Nervous breakdowns. Loosing everything and going bankrupt. My wife not working so she could homeschool our 3 kids (my oldest son just finished his first term in college with a 3.6 average:D). We have wept together. We have laughed together. But we have stayed together because there was not an option for anything else. Through all these trials and great tribulations, we love each other more than ever, simply because we choose to.


I understand that it was a 2 way street for my wife and I. We both were willing to walk this path together, and will continue to do so. I feel sad for those that had a spouse that chose to leave. But I refuse to raise my kids any other way than that marriage is for life.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest?
 

Accepted notions are not always facts...go to Barna research stats and you'll find all of which I speak.

You can passionately believe something only to find out you were passionately WRONG.

Blessings, Rhoni

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest?
 

I have the utmost respect for those who keep their commitments to God and each other. Thank-you for being a good example of how it should be done God's way.

Respectfully, Rhoni

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest?
 

Great Post St Matt!

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Two thoughts on divorce from a person who has been married to the same person for a little over 50 years.

1. Some times divorce is good and the only real sensible action to be taken. Years ago there were women who remained in marriages because of social pressure, etc. even though they were abused. This some times still happens. I have talked to women who had been married to men who were abusive and who did not fulfill their obligation as a father, husband, provider, etc. Pastors and family members would tell them that the only recourse they had was to remain in the marriage, submit to the man, and pray for him.

2. The other extreme is marriages which seem to be entered into lightly, almost like "going steady" among teenagers. Seems like some think, "Well, we'll try this and see if it works out." I remember something that someone told my wife a few years ago. This woman's daughter was going through a second divorce. When the mother questioned it, the daughter responded, "Well, I'm looking for a marriage like you and Dad had." The mother responded, "Well, you might have had a marriage like that if you'd given it more time."

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

This is how Deuteronomy 24:1-4 reads in the Dead Sea scrolls:

1 If a man takes a wife and marries her, but she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found something objectionable about her, then he shall write her a bill of divorce and put it in her hand and send her from his house. 2 She may then go and be another man’s wife, 3 And if the latter husband who took her to be his wife dislikes her and writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her from his house, or if the latter husband who took her to be his wife dies, 4 her former husband who had sent her away, cannot take her again to be his wife after she has been defiled. For that is an abomination before the Lord; you shall not bring sin upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

The Septuagint, some times called the LXX, is the ancient Greek version of the Hebrew Scriptures translated by a number of different Jewish scholars over the course of the third, second, and first centuries BC. The LXX was the Scriptures that the Apostles used in their writings which became our New Testament. Here is how Deut 24:1-4 reads in the LXX (Apostolic Bible Polyglot First Edition copyright 1996)
1 And if any take a woman and should live with her, and it shall be if she should not find favor before him, for he finds in her an indecent thing, then he shall write to her a certificate of divorce scroll, and he shall put it into her hands and he shall send her from out of his house. 2 And going forth, should she become another man’s wife, 3 and the last husband should detest her, and should write to her a certificate of divorce scroll, and he should put it into her hands, and send her from out of his house or her last husband should die who took her to himself as wife; 4 the former husband sending her out shall not be able to return to take her to himself for a wife after her being defiled; for it is an abomination before the Lord your God, and you shall not defile the land which the Lord your God gives to you by lot.
The Complete Apostle’s Bible, copyright 2003 uses the term “unbecoming thing” instead of “indecent thing” like the version above.

As Hebrew became more unfamiliar with people, it became the custom for a person to give a paraphrase in Aramaic for the Scripture that had been read aloud in Hebrew. This paraphrase was called a Targum. Something like this took place in Nehemiah 8:1-8. At first a targum could not be written down but memorized. Later they were written out. Here is how a targum of Deuteronomy 24:1-4 reads. Note that the verses are not numbered:
When a man hath taken a wife and gone unto her, if she hath not favour in his eyes because he findeth the thing that is wrong in her, then he may write her a bill of divorce before the court of justice, and put it into her power, and send her away from his house. And departing from his house she may go and marry another man. But should they proclaim from the heavens about her that the latter husband shall dislike her, and write her a bill of divorce, and put it into her power to go from his house; or should they proclaim about him that lie the latter husband shall die: it shall not be in the power of the first husband who dismissed her at the beginning to return and take her to be with him as his wife, after that she hath been defiled; for that is an abomination before the Lord: for the children whom she might bear should not be made abominable, or the land which the Lord your God giveth you to inherit become obnoxious to the plague.

The above three readings can give us an idea of how the Jewish people understood what is called Deuteronomy 24:1-4 in our Bibles around the time of the establishment of the New Testament Church. In each case divorce was permitted if the husband found something “objectionable about her” (Dead Seas Scroll), or “an indecent thing” (LXX), or “an unbecoming thing” (LXX) or “a thing that is wrong” (Targum). This would not be divorce because of adultery because the penalty for that was death. This “unbecoming thing” had become pretty loose interpreted around the first century BC and AD and divorce was allowed if the man found someone he liked better or if the wife’s voice could be heard by the neighbors or basically if the husband felt like something was the matter with her.

The following is from a current Jewish version of the Old Testament

Deuteronomy 24
Jewish Publication Society Tanakh (1917)
1 When a man taketh a wife, and marrieth her, then it cometh to pass, if she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some unseemly thing in her, that he writeth her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house, 2 and she departeth out of his house, and goeth and becometh another man's wife, 3 and the latter husband hateth her, and writeth her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, who took her to be his wife; 4 her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD; and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

I just included these verses to show that the Jewish people and therefore the early Christians had a more liberal view of divorce and remarriage than many of us have today.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

They did have a more liberal view...but this is what Jesus had to say on the subject.

Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

We often think living under the law was the harder thing to do... we forget that when Jesus came he said, not only is it wrong to commit adultery, if you even look on a woman to lust you have already committed it in your heart....

In that same sermon Jesus also raised the bar on divorce and remarriage.

Matthew 5

31
It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery

Fact is.. under this new convenent of Grace, Jesus raised the bar.. and so Grace and Truth work together.

In this new testement, the question is no longer, what can I do to the letter and what can I get away with. The question is... what can I do above and beyond what is required to please the one who left all and died for my sins...
I don't deserve happiness in life, I don't deserve peace in life... I don't deserve God's love in my life.. I deserve death and hell.

The humanistic cry of today is "Do what you need to do to be happy"

But.. that's another sermon for another thread.

(Disclaimer: Mrs. LPW has already made it plain in previous threads that she is not anti-divorce in some circumstances, but is very much pro-marriage)

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Divorce is not in the plans of God ... for what it's worth. God hates it because he wants the best for us.

OP Carl I have to agree that one of the worst things that has happened in America is no-fault divorce ... however I do believe there is systemic sexism engrained in tradtional OP circles that is not rooted in biblical principles but woven into the fixation w/ a snapshot of time ... specifically the early part of last century.

Sexism is just not thinking one is superior to the other gender but to have distorted views of the roles of the other gender ... such as having warped values attached to the other gender that are not healthy or realistic or culturally accepted.

As generations get more removed of the Norman Rockell painting idol that is reified at the altar of holimess dress theology ... this paradigm will seem more and more extreme, archaic and out of touch.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Dan, can you tell me why you think no fault divorce is worse than fault based divorce?

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

I'm not Dan, but I'll tell you what I think. With no fault divorce you can be divorced just because you are bored or tired of working on your marriage. If they had to have a fault based divorce it would eliminate the ones that just want to get divorced because they can or want to try someone different. Also, no fault divorce affects the financial piece of the divorce.

However, I believe that there's a increase in fault based divorces too, so it might not actually affect the percentages that much.

I married for life too, but that all changed.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

I'm not Dan, but....

To me, a "no-fault" divorce says, "We both just gave up."

Marriage is a promise to stay together no matter what. That promise should be kept.

I don't believe in the "I don't love you anymore" excuse. Love is an action verb, and a choice.

At least if there's a "fault" there's a reason (whether its a good one or not is another matter). Divorcing is breaking a promise, and if it does have to be done, it ought to be for a good reason.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

:D

I completely agree. It's the lazy way out, IMO.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Absolutely Renda and Ms. B ... it also tells the parties that we don't have to have legitimate reasons to end this ... or work this out ... I'm just out because I can.

I know that courts mandate counseling and other nominal programs at times before granting the divorce but it's just way too easy ...

Marraige is for life and for what it's worth I was committed to that until the very, very end until I had to protect myself legally and seek the best for my kids....

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

I understand what you are saying, but not sure if the problem is no fault divorce. The argument in favor of no fault divorce is that you don't have to drag someone through the mud to get the divorce.

What did you mean by the bolded statement?

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

What's interesting is that when it is taught ... of course using pre-texts and faulty history ...

It's also taught with an inordinate focus on woman as a matter of submission. How many times does the topic of standards in women's conference when going into dressing modestly or not cutting your hair, or being in Pentecostal burka-mode, that it is a sign of submitting to your husband.

The uncut hair doctrine is centered on this premise. I absolutely believe in the Godly order of things ... men are the head of their homes ... that's biblical ...

but when dozens, perhaps hundreds, of couples argued yesterday before going to church over whether or not her dress was too short to go to church that way ... or "you are wearing too much blush".... or that she needs to put her hair up because everyone is going to find out that she trimmed it ... the issue usually boils down to the husband feeling his authority has been compromised because she won't comply.

The woman becomes the rebel ... who is not submitting ... Why? Because she wanted to get fixed up?

It's no longer an issue of being holy unto God but rather the trophy of religious extrabiblical doctrine and systemic sexism that is traced to the view of women a century ago.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

It could be different from state to state, but even though there was cause (or fault) in my divorce the financial piece of it was 50/50 because of the no fault rule. I wasn't able to get more money even though he was at fault.

I actually had a good amount in my 401(k) because I had always been steadily employed. If it wasn't for the grace of God I would have had to split that with him when he was at fault. It was nothing more than a miracle!

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Surely UPCI women don't wear blush!!!! That is makeup!!!!! :reaction

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

This does vary by state. In NC for example adultery is a complete bar to alimony, even though it’s no fault. In DC fault basis is taken into consideration when determining alimony even though it is no fault.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

And Carl,

The best way to know whether or not people think you're a Pentecostal male because you're clean shaven and wear long sleeves is the practical but always effective WAL-MART TEST.

Go into Wal-mart, strut your wears and ask, "What religion am I?"

Some will think you are a fuddy-duddy Baptist, a Mormon or a Wiccan ...

Don't fool yourself, Carl ... you look like most men in the general population ... your age .... at Wal-mart.

Furthermore ... for someone concerned about the feminization of the Apostolic liturgical service ... there was a time ... for millenias ... that wearing a beard was the height of being masculine and shameful/effiminate if you did not wear one.

But take a traditionally dressed OP woman into Wal-mart and you will get ...

"She's one of those ..."

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Me too. I was willing to do some things that in retrospect would have been very, very bad for me to do. It was only when he made it clear even those concessions weren't going to work, and then absolutely when I had to leave the house for my own safety, that the divorce (no fault btw) happened. I should have signed the papers a lot sooner than I did, and that's saying something since it was 2 months from the time we separated until the divorce was final. I had to protect myself and my children legally, and the divorce paperwork was the only avenue to do that.

move - divorce
 

It seems to be the norm in some parts of Texas now an upswing in large families. And yes I did mean I hope you find a very loving husband. And remember just because a man is wearing boots and a hat doesn't mean he's a true cowboy.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest?
 

Helps improve the odds if you speak Spanish though

:bliss

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest?
 

I grew up around those sort of non-cowboys, and the real ones too. :) I think I can sort that much out. lol

A loving husband...would be interesting. I think I could handle that.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest?
 

I used to, does that count? lol (spent a few weeks in Mexico when I was 18, understood well enough to translate btwn English and Spanish..oh the things a person can forget in a few years tho...lol)

I've taken half a semester of college Spanish now. Will be taking a 5 credit Spanish class after I move too, or I think at least.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest?
 

In the Baptist church one of my kids and his family attend they really stress the importance of biblical families where Jesus is the head of the family.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

That is the way it was here too Renda… no fault, but every thing is split.
Sounds like God was with you too! Divorce is so sad and often long and drawn out.

I had inherited my home… my attorney warned me going in.. I could by law lose ½ half of it. He said really the best case scenario was that I could stay in the home until I raised the girls, then I would have to sell and give him his percentage. I wanted to protect my girls… I just couldn’t see my sharing custody… I had a long wish list for my attorney…he told me once I was asking for too much.

I prayed that God would be my lawyer in that courtroom… but I needed a certain judge in our county who I knew was familiar with my ex husband… I knew that he would look at the whole picture. I felt he would be the most compassionate. I informed my attorney that I needed this certain judge… he said it was 1 in 5 chance…

Here in our County, when the attorney filed for the divorce, the judge is randomly chosen…by all things but a colored golf tee… my attorney asked me if I had been praying… Oh yeah, I was standing there praying as well. I started crying when the clerk pulled out a golf tee in the color of the Judge I needed.

I was awarded everything, house, both his and my vehicles, full custody of the girls, no visitation unless I granted it… the judge imposed far greater restrictions than I even asked for in the divorce. My attorney told me that was the quickest divorce he had ever seen…(less than 30 min) He was shocked at the outcome.

The divorce truly wasn’t a “no fault”, and God was my attorney that day.

Anyone who knows me though realizes that I have bent over backwards to help my ex husband since our divorce… but believe me, at the time of a the divorce, he was mixed up and with a woman who wanted everything she could get her hands on.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest?
 

Well, when it comes to, "Hey babe! I think you are one hot momma!", and, "All right, Big Daddy!", ya don't need words to make yer point! :lol Love don't need no stinkin words!! :D

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Of course they do ... Matt ...

Let's be real. And yes it's make-up.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

TO OBTAIN A DIVORCE prior to no-fault you had to prove adultery which means hire aprivate investigater and run the other spouse through the mud before even being allowed a court date much less a divorce.

After no-fault you can get a divorce in anywhere from 30-90 days withoput proving anything. This traumatically :( increased the avaiability and affordability of a divorce. OP is correct that this was the beginning of the rise of divorce in the United States.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

There are other fault based reasons besides adultery, such as abandonment, Habitual drunkenness, etc.

Just because no fault availability roughly corresponds to the rise in divorce doesn't mean the no fault divorce is the cause. It could be the other way around. Or they may have no connection at all. It could be like drowning going up when people buy more Coke. The heat causes people to drink more Coke and spend more time in the water. But the purchase of Coke has nothing to do with drowning.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Lisa!!!

That sounds just about like what I went through! My mentor and friend went with me to court and was praying the whole time! I also was fortunate to get the "right" judge. I was prepared as well as my attorney - I had everything I needed at my fingertips should he ask for anything.

My ex was answering a question posed by the judge and going on a wild goose chase and the judge looked at him and said, "I know your type". You don't have the answer, sit down, Mrs. Craig do you have the answer to this question. The blood drained from my face and I saw my heartbeat in my chest as I stood up and said, "yes, your honor" and I handed him the records of where my ex had taken $30K out of our home equity line of credit AFTER the papers were signed that should have stopped anything like that.

He was toast after that - - - the judge told me to go sit down I didn't have to say another word.

He stood my ex up and read him the act - - it was such a GOD thing!!!! Oh, the stories I could tell.

I can be driving down the road and the thought goes through my mind how God orchestrated all that and I have to give him thanks over and over again.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

With my divorce and being married 15 years, and two children I was not granted nor did I even think to ask for alimony even though I had to be retrained/re-educated to enter the work force.

Our separation was for over a year because I had an outstanding lawsuit and he wanted part of the money. After I received the money he wanted to know the amount and wanted a % of the money but the judge denied him both.

I was physically handicapped, with custody of both children, in college, and working a minimum wage job when our divorce was final. Because he kept trying to regain custody after remarriage 8 months later, the judge made us go to counseling on how not to put the children in the middle. It didn't change anything.

He filed bankruptcy, and I was left to pay his debts because I refused to file. I paid $20,000.00 of his tax lien and they sent the refund check to him because I overpaid. He would not sign it unless I gave him half [mind you I paid it all myself and it was his taxes] and I was so desperate for gas and groceries that I agreed.

I filed a lawsuit to recoup my money and was granted a judgement against him for the total and he went to his church and told them that I was the only one he refused to pay and that he was going to file bankruptcy against the debt he owed me. The church [about 35 people] voted that he could do this and he did. I had to pull my children out of a Christian/Apostolic school because of this.

The courts could not attached his wages for child support because he was a minister and self-employed. He was late weeks, and months at a time paying and by the time we'd go to court he'd pay it before the hearing and tell the judge it was paid.

When I signed for Him to have physical custody of our youngest son at 15 years of age because it was his[my son's request] request, he said he wouldn't require me to pay child support. My attorney and I talked it over and I chose to pay support [my oldest was married]. I was late one time and he filed to attach my wages. I was gainfully employed.

When my son called my attorney choosing to come back to live with Momma about 18 months later for his last two years of high school, I took custody back and did not require my ex to pay child support. When my son was emancipated at 18 when he was on his own, my ex tried to get another $500.00 from me. It was researched and he owed me money from the summer months I continues to pay full support although my son was with me in Florida.

I think I know a little about the Family Law system in America.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

It might not be the actual cause but it makes it much easier to divorce on a wim and let the chips fall where they may.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

THANK YOU!!!!!

:amen

And just for the record, yes, that is exactly what the no-fault divorce did, enable lazy people to get out marriages they were tired of, easily... :blah :blah

OR, it enabled women who were trapped in horrible marriages with no financial means of hiring an attorney to fight out protracted he said/she said divorces, a way to get out of abusive situations and get on with/save their lives.

It is really all a matter of perspective, and unless you have ever lived through any of these situations, perhaps it is unwise to spout off your opinion about it...

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

I bet you do have stories to tell.. God heard our prayers..

I went to court prepared too…but the judge didn’t even question the fact I wanted all vehicles.. My attorney thought I was being mean for asking for his Truck too… but went along with what I asked. I provided proof that we had just purchased it through a home equity loan…and who do you think was making the home equity loan payment? It was worth three times what my minivan was..and I was tired of seeing her drive it all over town. :-)

I’m telling you it was a matter of the judge signing…my attorney started in with the case in my defense and the judge held up his hand and said “I familiar with Mr. Taylor, don't need to say anymore” then he asked me some personal questions… added more restrictions concerning our children and signed it.

I agree with you... God moved on our behalf… he was with us both.

God moved on my heart sometime later… I gave them the mini van and bought myself a new car… but that was after God had blessed me with a good job and I had gotten on my feet. Divorce can just about devastate a family financially… never happens at a good time.

Re: Is the UPC a Den of Incest (Growth Within)?
 

Amen!

Yes, financially it's very devastating, but I will say even though things aren't perfect, I feel blessed!