AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I have been informed that at the next General Council there will be a serious debate amongst the AGs concerning the intial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. The majority of the AC churches that are located outside of the Bible belt are now trying to appeal to more nominal people and thus they are less and less of them in these churches who are actually receiving the Holy Spirit. This group that is moving away from the baptism of the Holy Spirit represents between 60 to 80 percent of the movement. Thus, some are speculating that things could actually boil to a head that results in the minority calling for a spliting off.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

One AOG linked pastor gives his position on the matter here ...

http://www.michianachristianembassy....?pageID=306543

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

'

Looks like this pastor may want an affirmation statement ....

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I thought this portion to be interesting taken from the post:

In Church after Church, the passionate preaching of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit was not a high priority, and that in too many cases the free exercise of the gifts of the Holy Spirit was discouraged in the Sunday Morning worship services due to their unnerving affect on visiting guests. Side rooms designated for prayer, or alternative services altogether were set up for those who needed to scratch their Pentecostal itch. This progressive slide into purposeful seekerism, accompanied by the relentless quest for audience approval ratings has caused many to push the Holy Spirit into the back rooms of the church; or out of it altogether. Our young generation of ministers is learning all too well that the “old paths” are not considered relevant to meeting the felt needs of today’s emerging crowd.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Very good stuff, very relevant to our own struggles, here is another portion:

They also lament, “Just when I bring a friend, Sister Ozman or Brother Seemore goes off in tongues and freaks them out! Can't we do that stuff some other time?” The despondent Pastor goes back to his study trying to figure out how to pursue a community shaking move of God while at the same time not offending the seekers with embarrassing outbursts from the Holy Spirit who, it appears, knows nothing about drawing and keeping a crowd. He pushes aside his copies of Wigglesworth, Tozer, Ravenhill, and the Azusa Papers, and reaches for a Ministers periodical that just came in the mail. Instead of finding a confirming voice in the midst of the storm, he finds a condemning voice chiding him for his irrelevance, while offering yet another “leadership weekend” to train him in how to effectively attract today’s crowd.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Apparently the AG Supt. George Wood is trying to keep the unity ....

He is pro-tongues as initial evidence ... Here is an article he wrote 4 years ago ...

It's shared by his son ... at his blog space ....

http://www.georgepwood.com/2007/07/2...e-holy-spirit/

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Good stuff! This sounds exactly like they've been writing about Christ Church.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

A young group of bloggers have written about some of the issues facing the AG here ...

A blog called FUTUREAG

They seem pretty active in seeking change within the AG ...

Note the polls and some of the articles deal w/ the issue of tongues ...

Not sure on their position on this matter.

http://futureag.blogspot.com/

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

What Keith posted from the article that Daniel cited is true. I have heard about more and more of their big churches having seeker rooms.
An AG evangelist said that the majority of those who do receive the Holy Ghost receive the experience in their children camps. In other words, outside of their home churches.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

This group (FutureAG) was instumental in somehow creating a very well designed and functional site called

AGThinkTank

it is promoting what they deem as congregational reform, denomonational reform ... apparently it is run by Woods' son, George P. Wood. It may give some insight to the debates and issues within the AG.

http://www.agthinktank.com/

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I didn't get that from the article Daniel, rather that some applicants for license wanted to make sure that the org. understood that they didn't want to be held to tongues as an initial evidence of the Holy Ghost, as it might scare some visitors.
But I did find interesting his statement about the Godhead. As he was singing and running through the pasture at his grandmother's house. "Drinking deeply from my relationship with the third PERSON of the Godhead.
Overall I got that they would rather have the Holy Ghost and tongues instead of watering down what they believe to fill a pew. Some of them seem to think Jesus won't show up unless they have a program geared to our flesh instead of our spirit.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I have seen your posts before but I don't know you. Do you go to Christ Church?

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Apparently the FutureAG blog brought a lot of controversy w/ its divergent opinions on various issues and is inactive at least temporarily ... From their site:

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

That was great.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

This is what happens when folks do not preach what they were founded on it ceases to exist.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I am in favor of so-called "seeker rooms".

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Are you saying they have ceased to preach ... hence the Spirit of God has stopped manifesting through the evidence of tongues?

Or that this org is slipping further down the slippery slope ????

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Does anyone know if there is a resolution? I'd like to read it ... maybe even post it.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

We always called them prayer rooms. But still, how do you stop the Holy Ghost from an outpouring in the sanctuary during a service? To me the gist of it is if someone starts speaking in tongues during service with visitors, we want them to go to another room to speak in tongues. Can we say quench the Spirit.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I don't know Daniel, as the link you posted was about the meeting in 2003.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

No. It's not quenching the Spirit. It is in fact the leading of God's Spirit to prohibit it.

As evidenced by Pauls teaching everyone might speak in tongues at the same time - but PAUL WOULD PUT A STOP TO IT.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I am not talking about seeker rooms. Of course everything must be done in order. What I am talking about is a friend of mine has a cousin who is one of staff at a big AG church in St Louis. He said that if someone wants to receive the Holy Ghost even during the altar call. Well then they take them to the seeker room or the prayer room.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

At the risk of sounding like "AG", I do believe that you have to be wise with visitors on Sunday mornings. When we started this church in Jackson, God really spoke to us about Sun. morning being a "bridge" service, to bring denominational people or just heathens into the presence of God slowly. Our Sunday morning services are geared way back - we still have a move of the Spirit, but it is nothing like our Wednesday nights. If our visitors came on Wed. nights first, many of them would be scared and wouldn't return. But by having the "bridge" service, they learn to trust us and by the time they come to the power packed Wed. nights, they are hooked and they already trust us.

We have seen so many Church of Christ, Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, Mennonites, etc. receive the Holy Ghost. Once in a while it's on Sunday mornings, but usually it's Wednesday nights.

God showed Eddie a long time ago an analogy of the tabernacle. Sunday mornings are a time of repentance and baptism (altar of sacrifice and laver). We don't bring the people into the inner courts or Holy Place until they have had the blood applied, or they will not survive. In the Holiest of Holies (Wed. nights), they are baptized with the Holy Ghost. We have lived by this analogy for many years, and it has worked well.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

In my opinion, all of the division that we see in all of the movements is a product of our post-modern society.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Interestingly enough in their last GC they, the AG, approved request from the floor to create a special committee to examine the possible use of online voting for the 2009 General Council, to encourage greater participation from the Fellowship.

Something the UPCI needs to seriously consider ... now they allow missionaries to do so.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I attended a church in Oregon that did a similar thing. It is not as whacky as it sounds. When people would come to the altar seeking salvation they were taken into a room adjoining the auditorium where there was a prayer team and counselors. They were given the information that they needed, like repentance and the need for it. This also kept whacko’s from interfering. We had issues a few times before that when whack-a-dos from the “local church” movement showed up and started praying for people at the altar.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Been divisions since the beginning ... read Acts 15 and epistles ...

Divisions since the Protestant Reformation ...

I don't know if we can peg this on post-modern society.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I understand what you are saying. Nevertheless, when people are there in the altar receiving the Holy Spirit there is normally a spill over to those who are around them. In other words, the action of doing it in the altar gives more place to a renewing to be given to the whole church body.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Good point

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

The AG is a mere shadow od what they once were. The HGB with tongues is the ONLY reason for their existance. Thus their reason is gone.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Really...??? I don't think they are eliminating this as a belief, Steve. Just whether or not it is the initial evidence ... it is still being practiced and encouraged (?). Pentocostalism is leading Christianity in growth numbers ... and the AG still remains the largest Pentecostal org ... dwarfing any Oneness org in size, resources and growth.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Yes, I do attend Christ Church. I have attended there for the last 14 years.

It concerns me when Holy Ghost baptism is never brought up for weeks or months at a time in Sunday services.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

You have expressed this before ... I think even at dinner ... how important is this issue to you? Would you consider going some place else because of this "lack of emphasis"?

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I consider myself pretty loyal, but if the right church came to town that is like Christ Church but more up front about the importance of the Holy Ghost, I would consider changing churches.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

This is a fascinating topic. I was concerned myself when we left the UPC that we would see less move of the Holy Spirit because most of the people we left behind at the old church were the more emotional crowd.

Now we have much more powerful moves of God but in a less manufactured way. When God moves he moves and it is on his time and not ours.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Could you define your interpretation of "denominationalism" please?

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

I agree. Its very sad to see how they've declined over the years. Maybe they've increased in number, but they've declined in terms of Holy Ghost power. According to their own statistics, barely 1/4 of the people they list as "converts" actually receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

If some of the libs had their way, the UPC would end up becoming very similar to the AG. I'm glad that kind of watering-down of the Holy-Ghost doctrine has been fiercely resisted so far by the UPC leadership as a whole.

Re: AGs will debate Tongues at the next GC
 

Well, I was shocked by what I read here today! I have relatives that attend Assembly of God churches and I haven't heard any mention of this latest development.

In fact, my brother and his family attend a moderately size assembly, about 700 people, here in Houston and trust me they are a Spirit-filled church. My mother and her two sisters left the COG several years ago and went to the AOG in their town (they no longer attend because one has passed and the other two have health issues). Again, from what I know, their little old AOG church in Trinity is a Spirit-filled church. They shout to every up tempo song they sing...lol.

I could see the majority of the assemblies located here in the bible belt spliting from the AOG if they were to try sanctioning speaking in tongues during their services. People down here in the bible belt tend to lean more on the conservative/traditional side and this sort of thing just wouldn't sit very well, IMO.