Where is the Revival we have been waiting for?
 

Hello all I touched on this in another thread on another topic about the FL revival. Tell me what you think.

In the last days I will pour out my spirit on all flesh.....

We keep talking about the 'soon to come' revival that will hit the OP church. Where is it? My real question, why is that everytime a revival and a move of God hits like the one in FL OP's look at it and try to find the wrong in it. We often try to discount it...that is our make-up. i believe we are missing it....the revival is here and yet we sit still waiting on it to arrive. We are like the Jews, waiting on the Messiah but the fact is we missed His first appearing! Are we waiting for a revival to come here and claim it is STILL to come, but yet it is actually here? Since it is not the same color, same shape, same smell, SAME LOOK, same family, same Org, same feel then it ain't the 'real thing.' Are we missing it? I believe so....what say ye?

Remember the world is burning for revival so is the church, but we want it the way we want it...the world will take it any way they can get it!

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Brother, as long as we try to split the outpouring of the Holy Ghost along doctrinal and or organizational lines, we will never see it. God is not divided. He pours His Spirit upon all flesh. ALL flesh. I remember the 70's and the "Jesus People". God began to move among them in a mighty way. What did we do? We snarled our nose at it and said it wasn't of God... We lifted not one finger to try to coax those long-haired, hippie Jesus freaks into the fullness of truth. We're Apostolic people involved in the Healing Revival? No... cause it ws being led by (egads!) Trinity preachers.

I've heard "revivals" like Brownstown and Smithton mocked and ridiculed, yet, except for small pockets of revival, the Apostolic Church bears little resemblence to Joels prophecy of Joel 2:28. And we claim to have ALL TRUTH. And I think you are right... we want it our way. We want the Joel 2:28 experience, we just don't want to have to endure the Joel 2:17 experience to get it. And we'll never have the one without the other.

Revival that resembles anything like Joel 2;28 isn't born at headquarters. Its not born in a committee room and it doesn't come through a craftily planned program. It is born in the Prayer Closet. A sacrifice must be made to inherit a blessing. The fact is... the Apostolic movement is a divided movement. Plain and simple. And as long as that is the case, and we seem to want it to remain that way.... we'll continue to be left on the bench while "the other team" scores.

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The more things change the more things stay the same. I believe the next revival will not be in America.

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I don't think we are hungry or humbled enough yet JT.

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It all hinges on that great big word at the beginning of your sig line....IF.

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I think one of the hardest things for us to do is humble ourselves. And one of the most important things we are suppose to do is humble ourselves before our Father. He didn't have to send His Son here to shed his blood, but He did. Yet we are so arrogant in response sometimes, no wonder he gets so frustrated with us. And instead of sharing Him with others the way he commanded us to, we want to do it our way. But you know He always found a way to humble people. Then He poured out of Himself on us. Blessings we cannot contain, so that they spill out to others.

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First of all by what reasoning is the entirety of Oneness Pentecostalism supposed to have "revival"? Any church be it Oneness or otherwise can be dead as a doornail and God is not going to force them to move if they refuse to move. They will be like Israel in the wilderness forever traveling around in circles.

Second...FL? Revival? Finding the wrong in it? Sorry I have no idea what you are talking about.

Revival is here. Revival is on the way...all sound like sound bites from various evangelists I have heard over the years.

Revival is neither here nor on the way. Revival Is not like a cloud that God sends you and suddenly you are having revival. BTW Im using the word revival in how it has come to mean. Literally it means to revive the dead. To revive churches that are dead. Any member of any local church can have revival and be on fire for God. Any local church can have the same. They need not wait for God to revive them. They need to seek God passionately and with an open mind and heart willing to hear and go whereever God says rather than to dictate to God how things ought to be. That is the problem with many who want revival but never get it. They have explicit expectations but God may be wanting to do things a little differently from how they have decided things should go.

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This has been and continues to be our problem as a movement. We are like dogs inside the house looking out the window at everyone passing by...Why do we need to care what other movements do or not do? I don't want to be preacher bashing so I won't mention this name, but I was watching a youtube video of on of our preachers at a camp and he was going on and on about how WE are not THEM (trinitarians)..It's alwasy US vs THEM. Just tell me how to get closer to God and stay there. Just tell me how to hear from God and be led by His Spirit. Just tell me how to be a better soul winner. I don't need a pep rally. I need more of His Spirit. Im not going to get it by making comparisons and making boastful claims about US (which is arrogant) and low claims about THEM.

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Revival means resurrection life from the dead. See Romans 14:9 where it says that Jesus revived (rose from the dead).

Revival is happening all around us. Whenever a person who is dead in trespasses and sins receives the life/Spirit of God, his human spirit is revived.

Thousands of people are receiving the life of God all around us, especially in third world countries.

Let's stop using the term "revival" as a carrot on a stick with our preaching that "revival is just around the corner," and let's just enjoy the moving of God all around us. We saw times of "revival" in the early 1900's when the Holy Spirit was poured out in a special way. We saw other times of revival, new life, refreshing in the Spirit in the Healing movement and the Latter Rain movement of the nineteen forties, and in the Jesus movement, and the charismatic movement of the sixties, and in the third wave movement since then.

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Sis we have had this conversation before many times. It's all about our surrendering ourselves fully to Him. That's what I'm continuing to pray for, for all. Chocies..revival is here we can choose yes or no .

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I know people don't like restorationist theology, but I believe that we are the last days revival.

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I believe in a great revival but only when tribulation comes strong enough to bring America to her knees...right now most are full and in need of nothing...and do not think because we are Jesus Name people we hold stings on where revival will break out...
The knowledge of the Lord will cover all the earth...

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Amen. I think you're right Sis Alvear, the church will awaken when America falls to her knees.

It's like a situation my wife and I had. We had just finished eating at a local Spaghetti Warehouse. We had an entire plate of manicotti and bread left over in a container. We had to stop by the post office and there in the lobby was a man who appeared to be down on his luck or maybe even homeless. He asked for money to buy something to eat. My wife and I don't give away money, but we offered him the meal, we had just left the restraunt down the street and it was still hot. He looked at us like we were crazy and said, "Naw, I'd rather have chicken." We were speechless. After we got in the car I looked at my wife and said, "Well, let's take a moment and thank God we live in a country where beggars can be choosers."

The man wasn't really hungry enough to receive what could have been his. Now had he been destitute, like some I've known, he'd have gladly accepted God's provision.

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I preached a sermon once at a special meeting entitled, "How hungrry is hungry..."

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I took that picture today in a modern city...

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the fires of revival have always burned the hottest during persecution and if thats what it takes...I say bring it....yes there is a part of me that cringes when I say that but we have to be moved out of our complacency.Only when we reach the place where Jesus is more than a safety net or plan b will this happen. I mean...how can He be the God of everything to us that has everything?

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JMO

I don't think the scripture you quote fits the question you ask.

As Bro. Sam has posted , to revive means in scripture to ressurect the dead. In order to "re" vive something it must first be alive prior to being dead.

Revival is for the church that has strayed or gotten "lukewarm" not for the lost. The lost were never alive in God to begin with therefor they cannot be "revived".

I believe the scripture you quoted refers not only to us but to the lost, "all flesh" In other words there will be ( IMO ) one last calling of souls, one last great tug of the heart. I believe many will heed the call, but it also said that many hearts will have already waxed cold.

If you want to see "revival" you must start with yourself. Not wait and watch for God to do it. Revival must start with us, with our prayers, with our praise, with our worship.

I am afraid the time of scripture you quote may already be here. I see more and more doors opening everyday to witness to someone, I feel the tug of the HG to speak to others, I see more and more who actually are intrested in what I have to say than ever before.

God has made the harvest ripe. Do we sit here and watch the harvest moon set ? or do we go out and gather it in. ?

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Have any of u ever read Jesus Freaks put out by Voice of the Martyrs? The stories I have read have moved me to tears so many times....people beaten, tortured, imprisoned and killed for the Gospel...I cry not only for them...but because I know that my faith and desire isnt a drop in the bucket compared to theirs....I read their stories and wonder...could I have done the same? I WANT that kind of faith.

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I Agree with you here Scotty.

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yes, I have a copy of that book and knew the author...it brings tears to my eyes too, dear friend.
What a challenge the church faces today.

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“Missions is the reason we live. The minute the Church gets on her knees, the minute the Church sells out to advancing the Gospel into these dark areas, Satan is done.”– John Willis Zumwalt

Re: Where is the Revival we have been waiting for?
 

It is being pushed aside for the idea of prosperity.

Which is fine but that is the pulpit message in today's churches.

You get what you preach.

Try and balance more than my check book.

Balance the pulpit with some real message revelations...

It takes guts today to preach on values over money...

I wish every wannabe mega minister would stop watching TBN and taking notes on Sunday morning.

All we hear in our churches today is Franklin, Jakes and Copeland.

Be your own man for God and give us a fresh word....

The mission statement of the church can have prosperity and success in our message.

It should not be our mission statement.

Re: Where is the Revival we have been waiting for?
 

The verse I gave was to show His promise of what He will do. I agree that revival is in referrance to reviving dead things. If revival is ONLY to be used to talk about those that have fallen away from God then why does the Bible refer to sinners and being 'dead in their trespasses'? Revival is mutlifacited, IMO. It is to revive the ones that have fallen from God. I honestly believe that revival is also for those that have not known God on earth. If we are all created by Him and for Him then we at one time were ALIVE in Him. He thought us up then spoke us into existance. Revival CAN NOT be only for those that have fallen away from God.

To me there is two types of revival. First is renewal unto God by fallen saints. Second is reaching the lost. Maybe revival is not the best word to be used, but you are arguing over symantics. I am pretty sure you knew what I meant about the original question of this post. The world revival is used by default cause it is easy. Every revival I have EVER been in we had more new converts than renewed fallen saints. When a Revival is happening often times the focus is on reaching new people. I think that is VERY safe to say. So please do not try and argue over verbage when you know good and well what I meant by the original post.

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While I do watch the ministers you have mentioned and I like them, I follow what you are saying. There is nothing wrong with prosperity sermons, but like you were talking about it should not be the ONLY thing that we preach. I think that the OP as a whole preach some sort of prosperity. It seems that often the pastor is the most prosperious ones. Nothing wrong with a minister having great things. But we keep our focus on having to change diapers of the saints that are acting like babies. Too many excuses.

I hate it when there is something great going on in the spirit world like the FL revival and our first reaction is to discount it cause it ain't us. Horrible.

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The reasoning is from most of our minsters preach that there is this BIG influx of people coming into this movment. AS far as the FL revival there is a whole thread on here about it. It is called FL outpouring or something like that.

I like what you said in the underlined portion. That is the point of this thread. I the latter-rain here or is it still to come? The OP church will forever shun or try and discount moves of God when they do not happen in our assemblies. I have see that all my life.

Re: Where is the Revival we have been waiting for?
 

God gave me a word through the gifts of the Spirit years ago of mighty works which I would see. Things that I couldn't even imagine, above all that I could ask or think would happen. There was one condition...that I stay faithful to Him. I haven't seen that promise come to pass but I believe it is at the door. I also believe this move of God will be the latter rain. Why? because He indicated to me by His Spirit that it would be.

Zech 10:1 Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.

Re: Where is the Revival we have been waiting for?
 

wow...thats all you got out of my post was offended?..sorry.....like I said....it was JMO...to bad you couldn't see what little good words may have been there through your determined rebuttle.....I will pray you find revival....tic

Re: Where is the Revival we have been waiting for?
 

If we want to speak of "latter rain" doctrine then I would argue it has been here since the early part of the last century. People are waiting for God to "send us" something when the opposite is true. God is waiting for us to go get it!

Re: Where is the Revival we have been waiting for?
 

How about the "last days' revival" being what started in the late 1800's and into the early 1900's and continuing today?


For many years some have considered the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the early church from Pentecost AD 30 as recorded in the second chapter of the Book of Acts and continuing for some time until it filled the “whole world” (according to Colossians 1:6) as the “early rain.” Then when the Holy Spirit was again poured out around the beginning of the twentieth century and has again reached the whole world as the “latter rain.”

A passage of Scripture that could be considered applicable to this is James 5:7-8 which reads as follows in the NASB:
“7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
8 You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.”
Here it could be implied that the second coming of Jesus may have something to do with early and late or latter rain.

Another verse that could seem to imply rain/refreshing being connected to the Lord’s second coming is Acts 3:19-20 which reads as follows in the NASB:
“19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,”

The term "latter rain is a Biblical one coming primarily from the Old Testament and in context it referred to the late rain which was necessary to bring the planting to maturity so it could be harvested.

From what I understand, in the land where the Bible was written, the rainy season went from October to April and the dry season from May to October. The early rain fell in October/November and the latter rain in March/April just before harvest (harvest is some times considered typical of the end of the age). There were showers of rain off and on all through the rainy season.

A couple Old Testament passages about latter or late rain are listed below. The one in Joel seems to be tied in with a spiritual outpouring.

“that He will give the rain for your land in its season, the early and late rain, that you may gather in your grain and your new wine and your oil.” Deut. 11:14

“Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.” Joel 2:23

“Ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain; so the Lord shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.” Zech. 10:1

Very early in the American Pentecostal outpouring early pioneers of American Pentecostalism began using the term latter rain to refer to what was happening in Los Angeles at Azusa Street.

I think this is good for symbolism but let’s not get too rigid in making this a doctrine.

Some Pentecostals give the impression that there was an outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the early church, then a great spiritual drought, and then a modern day outpouring. This fits in with their idea that the early church had “the Truth,” then that Truth died (or was killed by the Roman Catholic Church), and then later was restored in 1914 a few years after the Holy Spirit was once again poured out. Others like to find references to spiritual gifts throughout centuries of church history to “prove” that God has always had a “remnant” that practice “the Truth.”

I think that the Church that Jesus established has always been around and will continue to be here until He takes it out in the rapture. This is my personal opinion.

I like the analogy of rain/water being a symbol of the Holy Spirit and I like the picture of an early and a latter rain in the beginning of the church and now at the ending of the church. But, let’s not get too rigid with this. There was rain off and on throughout the season until the harvest and I think that God has been alive and well in His church throughout the ages. There may have been dry times and then showers here and there and God’s church may have been small compared to the “political” church but I don’t think Truth was lost until somebody found it in 1914. I think Truth (Jesus) has been preached by His church since it began when He gathered His followers around Him and commissioned them and that Truth is still being preached by His Church.

And, I think the Church of Jesus was around way before the huge religious/political structure called the UPCI was formed. I do believe that many of the people in the UPCI are in the Church of Jesus but so are multitudes of folks who have nothing to do with the UPCI.

Just my personal opinion.

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The FL "revival" is nothing more than another wind that will blow many seekers of truth away. It is, however, something that is going on in the spirit world. The prince of this world is at work to draw as many as he can away from sound doctrine by giving them a "feel good" revival. TB is into so much new age garbage one would have to be willingly blind not to see it.

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Could be in part, that we(the church)need an "internal revival" of nothing but "his will & way of doing things above ours", before God ever rains down more of an "external revival" of souls & miraculous miracles that everybody is looking for.

Especially here in the USA 2008, where many don't rely on God, because so many have it so good.

Heb. 6 talks about his church moving on into perfection. I'm not real sure if that is much of a popular priority.

Eph. 4 talks about the "5 fold", & why it is to be used in the church.
I think some are maybe having a difficult time giving up traditional ways of doing things, to atleast be passionately trying to find out and operate church 100% the bible way. (No, I sure don't have it all figured out either).

Many denominations are blowing us out of the water on "loving your neighbor", selflessness etc., while we're still busy talking to eachother about their lack of holiness standards & how bad they need to get the Holyghost.

I don't know if at all, or how much these thoughts play a role in the subject at hand. But I think they could possibly play a role in it. I wouldn't want to hand my car keys to a kid that wasn't mature enough to handle it. Just a thought.

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Revival was always received the same way all through history.


2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

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Good point. Amen

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Brother, you think that the FL revival is pushing people away from God? He is the the truth. Doctrine is not THE ONLY truth it is just doctrine. The prince of this world is focused on getting people to deny God and accept him. TB may be new school, but again anything that does not look like we want it or sound like we want it does not mean it is not from God.

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I was not offended. But I feel that you were arguing over symantics rather than the meaning of what was said. I welcome your prayers for me to have revival....I likewise will return the favor. LOL Have a good Day Scotty!

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I am really having a hard time believing you just said that. Our whole faith is based upon doctrine. IF there is no doctrine preached, there is nothing in which to base faith upon. Faith MUST have its root in the Word of God (Doctrine). Otherwise it is like building a house upon the sands. IF Jesus was the example, and he taught doctrine during his earthly ministry, it must be just a little bit important.



Matthew 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

Matthew 22:33 And when the multitude heard [this], they were astonished at his doctrine.

Mark 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

Mark 11:18 And the scribes and chief priests heard [it], and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

Luke 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

Let me say this very plainly. There IS doctrine being preached in Lakeland, FL. The question is, does it come from God, or is it coming from a seducing spirit. I tend to believe that it is coming from the later, and her name is Emma.

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Sorry MAtt, I fixed my post to read how I meant it. Doctrine is not THE ONLY truth is what I was meaning. Sorry for confusion.

I have watched ALOT of the FL revival and not heard anything that could be linked to doctrine other than healings and miracles. I have heard tongues. Nothing about Emma and nothing about crazy things. I am not scared to be wrong about this guy, TB. If he is a quack then he is wrong. My point in this whole thing is that 'us' OP's tend to try and discount anything that can be God moving because it does not or did not happen within our walls. It is simple. Doctrine is important. Please do not think I am trying to discount that. I am trying to say that God on earth as Jesus was not ALL doctrine as most of 'us' are. We are so overly critical when it is happening to others and not us. I have even seen people get mad when God is moving in one of our churches and not another. People get all but hurt and say things like, 'they must be doing something. They must be watering down doctrine or something.' I have heard these things and it is rediculous.

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AMEN!!!!!

I received the HGB on May 20, 1956 at Bethel Tabernacle UPC in Racine, Wisconsin. I attended one year 1956/1957 at the Apostolic Bible Institute in St. Paul, MN. I attended a UPC church here in the Cincinnati area from 1957 until some time in the early nineteen sixties. Then I attended an ALJC church from that time until I left in 1978 or maybe 1979. During that time I was a licensed minister at different times with three different organizations --The Church of Jesus Christ; The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith; and the Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ. As we heard and read about people known as the Jesus People or the Jesus Freaks, and then later on folks called Charismatics we looked down our righteous noses at them. This couldn't be real. They didn't look like us. They didn't dress like us. They didn't baptize like us. They didn't believe like us. The didn't come to us to receive the Holy Ghost Baptism. We thought we had the exclusive franchise for God's Spirit. They went directly to God with hunger and thirst in their hearts, and, as He promised, He filled them. It took a while for this to soak through my hard head and my proud heart. God is pouring out His Spirit on ALL flesh, not just UPC, PAW, CoJC, ALJC, AMF, GIB flesh, but all flesh just like He said in His Word.