Your experience when you dropped "dress standards"
 

For those of you that left "dress standards" please share with us standards keepers just how it came about and what you did.


When and How did it happen?



What was the first thing you did (what standard did you do away with first)??



How did you feel??

Re: your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

:aaa











:toofunny

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I always thought they were illogical and extra biblical.

The fantastical leaps in logic in application of scripture bothered me as far back as when I was ten years old and we had to throw away any dice that game with board games and substitute a spinner!

The first chance I had to express my views and live according to the principles of moderation and modesty is when I was 23 years old and moved to a city where I attended a large exUPC church.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Hmmm. When I left the ultra con church we belonged to, I started wearing denim, took my hair down, and put on a knit t-shirt. (gasp) I put my wedding rings on, put on some chocolatey-smelling lip gloss, and watched a bunch of movies. :D

Seriously, matthew, I felt great--because I never believed in any of those "standards" anyway, so it was freedom for me to be myself.

I don't imagine that dropping standards you were never convicted of in the first place would even be a blip on the radar.

Now, if you are convicted about something in your heart, and you go against that deliberately or rebelliously, that's another story. Or if you believe scripture does teach one thing, and you deliberately do another....

Rebellion is not always in play, no matter what some would like to believe. :D

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

:girlpopcorn

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I thought I was the only kid that couldn't play with dice. :girlytantrum

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

When it happened and how was after studying for myself that it was extra-Biblical. I never felt convicted personally of trimming my hair or wearing slacks.

One major turning point was when we started our family. We didn't want to raise them with standards that we didn't agree with and confuse them.

I guess the first thing I did was wear pants outside the house.

How did I feel - - warmer.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

The pastor where I was Music Director called a special staff meeting to tell us what God had been dealing with him concerning standards. Some were shocked, but I was relieved. I had questioned some of the standards since I was a teenager although I never publicly stated so. I was obedient to the rules.

He was very wise, in my opinion, as he chose not to announce his decision to the church. He chose just to not preach standards anymore and things would gradually change by itself. The transition took over a year and went smooth.

During this time, we experienced a mighty revival and saw our membership grow. Spiritually, nothing changed!

There were people who didn't like the change, but the change was so gradual that there was never serious opposition. We only lost one or two families.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Mine was about 2 yrs ago, but maybe closer to 1 and 1/2 yrs. It started when for me to be an issue years before though I still followed them out of fear. I did alot of personal devotions and prayer. There was no big flash of light or anything, but just woke up one day put on a pair of shorts and did not feel bad about it. Now I am wearing shorts around my UPC pastor...he does not care too much either. I do go to movies and things, but nothing too much different that before. One thing is for sure that when I started not following the 'dress code' I had to rely on a me and God walk not a me my pastor and God. It was not the easiest of choices, but it certainly was a good one. I wish I could say I feel a ton different and I really don't except for the mindset. I do have a more person walk with God and I do not feel that I have to measure up to anyone but the Lord. I don't have to measure to what some thinks the Lord said, but to what the Lord tells me through prayer, scriptures and revelation from prayer and scripture reading.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

What I want to know is if anyone first dropped standards then decided the W/S doctrine was wrong.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I remember reading Practical Holiness a Second Look and thinking, "Are you serious?" This is all there is behind these things? I was the crazy dude in sweat pants for PE and this is what you offer in the way of Scripture?

About the only change for me is I wear shorts pretty much all summer. For my wife it has been different and she hates going to churches that make it an issue, because virtually everyone pegs you as a sinner if you don't dress the right way. I guess I have a bit of my dad’s attitude, and I couldn’t care less what someone else thinks about my relationship with God.

I was most bothered by those that would admit that the dress code was not Biblical but either made lame references to building a fence, or were afraid of what others would say if they allowed it.

I guess it happened gradually when I had to start making decisions for myself and my attitude was if there isn't Bible for it why hinder people with ridiculous obligations that have nothing to do with salvation.

I feel relieved that I no longer walk a tight rope that requires my perfection to get into heaven.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Excellent post, Miss Bratt - as usual....

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Another thing about my experience...My parents raised me to follow what the preacher preached, but out of a respect factor. But the key of what they taught me and also what the pastor said verbally is if you think that something being taught at this church is not biblical then do not follow it. You are welcome to leave if you want or stay. The pastor did not change the way he preached, but he also did not smack you on the head if you did not follow it. My parents allowed me to make my own choices. They taught me if standards is what it takes for you to live right then do them. But if they are not a need for you then don't worry about not doing them. Because I had the backing of my parents to search it for myself that made it an easier change.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

The first standard that I gave up was long sleeves and I'm so grateful that I did, because it's so hot this time of year. Of course, when we retreated from the man made, so-called "Holiness Standards" which have no holiness in them at all, we were talked about, judged, called names and literally black-balled throughout the ranks of Pentecost, because we had suddenly believed the damnable lies of the enemy and we were rejecting truth. However, I've come to realize that we actually found truth, when we abandoned the lies of the UPC Legalistic Standards as a means to achieve holiness and began living lives that were totally surrendered and dependent upon Christ for our holiness. Today, we dress and live modestly, not as a means to BE HOLY, but because through Christ, we ARE HOLY.

And I know that I'll be deemed as an angry, bitter ex-UPCer and that's fine. I've been called everything you can imagine by many in those ranks, so I can handle it. I'm not bitter at all. I can't allow myself to be. However, there is something that I want to say since you started this self-righteous thread.

In UPC people's salvation state is judged by others mostly based upon their appearance. If a woman suddenly comes to church and her hair is trimmed, she has on any jewelry, a little bit of make-up, God forbid a pair of pants, she's backslidden and needs to get into the altar quickly so she can get pushed and shoved and spat upon, as she repents and gets saved AGAIN. Yet, that same woman, can look just right... Having all the standards perfected and be in the crowd of self-righteous Pharisees, judging someone else who's not LIVING RIGHT, yet she's deemed OK. I know you'll deny it, but it's the truth no matter what you say. Just the nature of the title of this thread alone, is of that same Pharisee spirit.

Jesus Christ came into this world to save us, because there was absolutely no way that we could even come close to saving ourselves. If we could have, then He came and suffered and died in vain. At the Cross, JESUS TRULY PAID IT IN FULL!!! There is nothing, outside of that work that can save our souls. Keeping "HOLINESS STANDARDS" is a joke! Those things have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether or not you're saved. Keeping them or not keeping them is NOT a reflection of your heart either. The Bible says that out of the mouth comes the abundance of your heart. If you want to examine your heart as a Christian, simply listen to what's coming out of your mouth. If you're judging everyone else and condemning them for their shortcomings or whatever, that's a pretty good indicator that something's not right in your own heart.

For it is by Grace that you have been saved and this not of yourselves. For it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. It's ONLY by the unearned favor of God, through the finished work of Christ at the Cross that any of us can be saved. It is not based upon our own works or the lack thereof, but it's based on His work alone.

Salvation comes through the Cross alone. Our works are not FOR salvation, but BECAUSE OF salvation. If you preach the Cross plus anything else as a means of salvation, you're in error. It's the Cross plus nothing.

So again to answer the question, my long sleeves was the first to go, then I grew some facial hair. My wife is now a cosmetologist... Her hair is cut, she wears make-up, pants, jewelry and even colors her hair sometime. Yet, we've never been closer to the Lord in all of our lives. When we got rid of man-made religion, then the real relationship with Christ became the focal point.

God bless you all and please know that I do not mean to be unkind at all. I'm simply sharing my experience as a man who was in UPC for 36 years and has been out for 4. Thank God for the Blood of Jesus.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

My parents had the same take. Our pastor did not believe in Christmas trees (although they had all other kinds of Christmas decoratons) but we always had one. Our pastor was a great man with a wonderful sense of humor and would just joke about it when in our home around Christmas time.

Comic books were also supposed to be a no no but I was not deprived of Superman, Batman, Archie, Little Dot, Baby Huey, etc.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I agree this is a wonderful post Miss. Brattperson! I think it explains in an unoffensive way something very important.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I don't know what is wrong with me lately. I keep going around being inoffensive. :tissue

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I agree. I belive that if some is to be baptized then it is the outward sign of acknowledging their life has been given to Jesus. I would rather someone be baptized in Jesus name, but I am not going to eliminate someone from fellowship because they haven't. I do that in order to fulfill our God given abilities that we need the HG in our lives. Do I think it is essential to living right not really, but I certainly think it is the best guide for living right.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

If you are raised from a child that it is wrong to wear pants is it a conviction or a learned behavior or any standard?

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Most of this is good. I am not too sure that Matt meant this thread as as selfrighteous one but could be. I agree with most all that you have said. I do however believe that alot still in the UPC do not believe the extra-biblical stuff, but follow it out of fear or acceptance. However there are people that cry at night cause there are people that follow most of the teaching but they are 'going to hell' cause they do not follow a dress code. That is nuts in my eys, but I would say that most are genuine in their faith. Though they are taught extra biblical teachings. I do have a hard time calling it a lie. I don't see how something can be a lie if the person telling believes it to be truth. They are better considered wrong, mislead, or whatever, but to say they are telling a lie that is a stretch for me.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Where in the world did this come from?? I think all that know me here will vouch that I am not self righteous. I simply thought this would be a good thread, and was interested as to how different folks decided to leave, for whatever reason, the dress standards that they had been taught. And btw - I am not, nor will I ever be, UPCI.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Thanks for "almost" believing in me. :toofunny

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Remember what James Bond said!

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Please accept my most sincere apologies. If that be the case, then it's definitely my mistake and I do apologize to you for the implication. Yet, the meat of the statement is correct. :tissue

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Anytime. I knew that this was not a selfrighteous thing, but that was also me assumption still had to hear it from you.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

How can I answer that question? Each person needs to search the scripture and talk to God about their concerns. If you are unsure whether something is a conviction or just a "tradition", then you need to pray and study about it until you ARE sure.

Furthermore, it isn't bad to keep something or adhere to a rule or standard just because its nothing more than that--a rule or standard. Manmade, no less.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

This here is a good question!! I have often wondered this myself because I was raised UPC and all things were wrong AND it was wrong to even question it. So, I asked someone recently this question regarding another standard concern and this is the answer I received (maybe it'll help). If you are concerned with what others will think of you, then that is condemnation. If you are totally mortified and deeply concerned about what GOD thinks of you, that's conviction.

That being said, that probably won't totally answer your question, because in reality, you have to study this out for yourself and come to your own spiritually guided conclusion.

I agree with Miss Bratt (oh, I think that's the right name). It's never wrong to continue to follow what you have been taught, regardless if it's man-made or scripture mandated. However, if you are in a serious questioning mode, you'd best buy a few good commentaries and grab about four or five different Biblical translations and find you a good designated prayer spot in your home and get to work! Not to mention, don't buy any groceries for a while, cause you'll be doing some serious fasting.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Ferd, another thread was started to answer this question and discuss W/S.

See Water/Spirit thread.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

This is a good illustration. My only caveat would be that God is concerned about people, therefore we should also be concerned with people, e.g., not being offensive to others in the way we present ourselves or behave.

That doesn't mean we have to be SO concerned about what others think that we place ourselves in bondage to their opinions and private interpretations--just that we should be considerate and presentable.

I think when we give others' opinions too much weight, then we can place ourselves under condemnation. We should rather place ourselves under God's authority. He'll ultimately require much harder things than a longer skirt hem.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I agree. Scientist have done studies that show that if a homan believes certain thing is wrong or good it is because of what they are taught or what they have learned for watching their parents. They went into decsriptions of examples. If a child is not taught that an iron or stove eye is hot and it hurts to touch then they have a greater chance of touching it. If they are not taught that garbage stinks then they have a greater chance of thinking that it does not stink. Follow the pattern?

This could also be said of teaching standards and other beliefs. If one is raised by a U.C. OP then they can have a greater chance of being fearful of change when it comes to standards and other teachings. I believe that it can be either a conviction from God by the later stage in life or it could be the fear of God in a negative way. Of course that is not to say that they would not go the opposite way ala Kings of Leon. Even though I was taught to search it for myself it was tough to finally make the step because of the ringing in my head of preachers over the years. But God's word, scriptural and verbal won out.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

2 years ago, after I really studied it out and realized these standards are man made and not a heaven or hell issue.

I cut my hair.

I feel liberated. "Whom the Son sets free is free indeed"!

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Matt,

In my observation,the ladies in these cases want to let go of the standards due to intimidation. They feel ugly and intimidated by the girls in the world or by the Xers who often try to intimidate those still in standards by acting superior in looks. I thiink too, the older the woman gets, she starts to feel even more self conscience about all of this.Many do appear unhappy. Perhaps she is looking older then her husband ????

I think whether a church stays with standards depends on the pastor's wife. If she's conservative and wants to stay with the UPC look, so goes the church.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

This is a thread after your own heart, ain't it Mark?? These are your kind of questions. :D

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

why do you say such ???

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

Sainthood,

You are so far off base on this entire post.

First off, you haven't left standards so you don't even know why.

Secondly, I doubt anyone felt "ugly" or older than their husbands and dropped standards - - lol!

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I just think you are an inquisitive person, and like these kind of thread.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

well i didnt drop anything, just go over how silly it was that i could not wear decent shorts, i just changed into a spankin new pair of shorts and away i went, lol

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

In my observation they are held onto due to intimidation. And that intimidation is much worse because it says if you don't do this you are viewed as saved, and we will treat you as such.

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I think intimidation is man-made and indeed goes both ways on most issues in life and in our walks with the Lord.

It shouldn't...

Re: Your experience when you dropped "dress standa
 

I love it Matt :happydance