How many churches are willing to "pay out" for their help?
 

This thread springs from one of Rhoni's posts.

1. Do most churches "pay out" reasonably for their staff help?
2. Or do most do the "here's a small token of our appreciation" poverty pay?
3. Are there pastors out there that soak up most, if not all, available wages-salaries, then are reluctant to pay out for other "needed" ministry help in their church?
   
4. Pastors, what are your usual guidelines in these types of situations?
5. How do you determine how many volunteer positions to paid positions?
6. How many young ministry couples are forced to leave their current church situations to find sufficient wages to meet end's meat?

Of course, there will always be smaller churches that actually cannot pay their ministry help due to their small size and that would be considered acceptable.

In another thread, Deacon's Blues is a fine example of a person willing to spread out available resources to pay additional ministry help.

This will most likely stir up a hornet's nest, but lets talk about.

My church is small and we have never paid anybody for any position.

When we were bigger, we paid for housing for the youth pastor we had at the time.

I don't agree that if a church can't adequately pay for a position then that church isn't large for that ministry. If that were the case, my church shouldn't have a pastor!

Good thing the youth leader isn't there to get paid, cause otherwise the teens wouldn't have the excitement in their life because of her ministry!

Thankfully, the women's leader isn't in that position to get paid. Most of the time, she puts in her own money to further that ministry without reimbursement.

The men's leader doesn't get paid either. I hope he doesn't leave the church over it.

The children's church minister....that's right. They aren't paid either. Not a penny. Thankfully, they don't believe that since they aren't paid, the church isn't large enough for their ministry.

According to Rhoni, if they can't afford it, they are too small for that ministry.

:nah

Rhoni? Any comments?

But if they don't get paid then they are just amateurs not professionals ....:toofunny

*donk!*

I should have had a V-8!



:happydance

Yes...I have comments. There is a difference if you were born and raised in a church, work an outside job, and volunteer to teach a Sunday School Class or work with the Youth Department. This is right and good...

I am talking about churches who have the money to adequately support other ministries and want free workers. I believe the tithes are to support the ministries of the church, not the Pastor only.

For instance: A fair wage for a decent size church, 120-250, for the Pastor would be 45-50% of the tithes or a base salary of $50,000.00 plus benefits. 30% of the tithe could go to support other ministries, such as asstant Pastor, or Youth Pastor or Minister of Music. As the church grows it could add on Counselors, and Outreach workers.

I am NOT of the opinion that ministry workers should work free. The Bible tells us that a servant is worthy of his hire. What I hate is taking advantage of volunteer laborers, such as; media people, musicians, and even counselors who give time and money [ususally have to buy their own materials to work with], and take time away from their place of employment and or their families.

You want quality help...you should pay for it. It is easy to say that if they loved God they'd do it free...why don't the Pastors get a job and do the same thing..free!

Blessings, Rhoni

This was said TIC but it is not necessarily true. I know many people that donate time and services who are professionals and never expect any return.

If they have the time and the money then it is possible, but most of us have to work for a living.

Blessings, Rhoni

People on church payrolls include:

Pastors
Assistant Pastors
Youth Pastors
Ministers of Music
Church Administrators
Janitors
Child Care workers
Counselors
Media Personnel

I am sure it is hard for some pastors to decide who gets paid and who doesn't. To honestly be fair it should be all get paid or none get paid. But that can't always be done, so I guess you pay the ones who put more hours into it.

I think they pay those they value the most...priorities are set by the Pastor of Church Boards. The most hours put into most churches are voluntary laborers.

If a church values music above other ministries, then that is where their money will go.

If they value outreach and community services they will pay those people; i.e., counselors and Bus ministry people.

If they value the Word and having Bible College to train ministers then they will hire good Bible Teachers...

Like I said the people who work in areas targeted as priorites by the church boards and/or Pastors will be the ones paid.

What you have to consider also: You get what you pay for. If you have a voluntary music staff then you have to settle for mediocre talent and less coordiantion of music with ministry.

If you have a voluntary assistant Pastor then he can show up if he can get off work...if not then you can't get things accomplished.

If you don't pay counselors then they will take their services elsewhere. Who wants to be burdened with other people's problems everytime you go to church unless you are the preacher's wife and have no choice;)!

Wow....I need to change careers....lol

In our church the only ones who get paid are the ones who are Full-Time. Yes, it would be nice to get paid even for doing it part time but our church can't afford it at this time so I understand.

But that's not what you said.

My church does well to pay the cleaning lady every month!!

There is the philosophy that says, why pay someone when they can/should volunteer first.

In our church, I am the only paid person, I get a percentage of the tithe (the church board, not me sets this amount) as we grow in our budget then I will add personel, but they will be part time, as I am. Now when our budget grows much larger then we will move into a full time type of situation. But with healthcare, employee costs until we are about a 250,000 a year budget then we won't have that luxury.

Because pastors, elders and mature saints aren't doing their jobs, no doubt.

I don't particularly care if you like what I said...but it is reality anyhow.

Blessings, Rhoni

We have 9 paid full time staff and 5 part time. We pay them fairly, compared to wages in our area, but none of us are getting rich. Several of these positions were volunteer/part time when we started the church and they became full time. I think staff should be paid well, but not extravagantly, according to your income. I don't think the Senior guy should be raking in tons of money if he's not willing to pay the others well.

Did I say anything about liking or not liking what you said? NO!

Finally...the voice of reason!

Thank-you Sherri...and I totally agree!:friend

Blessings, Rhoni

That's good to hear Sherri!

And I don't get paid at all - totally volunteer, by my own choice. I don't want to be tied to this office like I once was in our other church. I want to do my work and be free to come and go as I please.

Ah, yes, people whom God has gifted with certain abilitites will only have a mediocre gift unless they get paid for using their gift! NOT!

And, yet, Paul also made tents for a living.

[auote]If you don't pay counselors then they will take their services elsewhere. Who wants to be burdened with other people's problems everytime you go to church unless you are the preacher's wife and have no choice;)![/quote]They (so-called "counselors") need to go elsewhere because there's no place for them in the Church. That's what we have pastors, elders and mature saints for. What part of "Bear one another's burdens" did you not understand the several times you read that passage?

And you probably do your job as unto the Lord and do it just as well as someone who gets paid to do it.

Sounds like wisdom to me! :tiphat

Me too!:tiphat

I think it's just fine to ask folks to volunteer their gifts and talents to the church, especially if the church is small and can't afford to pay fulltime employees. However, the church can't expect compliance or fulltime effort....

I know quite a few pastors who work outside the home, to supplement small incomes from small churches. Would the same logic apply? If a church can't afford to pay a pastor, say, $50,000.00/year, are they too small for a pastor????

Volunteers are necessary, unless the church is very large with equally large financial resources. Volunteers are needed for teaching classes, greeting visitors, taking up offerings, singing in the choir, playing the organ on Sunday mornings, etc. etc. etc. There's no reason to pay for those positions. Unless the position is a fulltime position, in lieu of other employment (at the request of the church), then I see no reason for a salary, or at least not a large one.

I think folks should give of their time and talents to the church the same way the give their financial support. The way I see it, God blessed me with some gifts, I make money off those talents by teaching music lessons, etc., and I return His favor by giving back to Him for free. The only way I would accept a salary from our church is if they asked me to take on a position that would significantly take away from my ability to take care of other priorities, and I would need it in order to fill the position.

Salaries are fair, but they aren't necessary all the time, nor should they be demanded or expected, nor should a person withhold their gifts and talents from the church merely to gain a salary.

I do agree that some churches don't treat their members and volunteers very well, and those who don't, and especially those who have the capacity to do so and don't should be ashamed of themselves.

Also...it disturbs me just a bit that so many people expect to be monetarily compensated for every little thing they do. For goodness' sake, doesn't anyone just give to God anymore?

I suppose sacrificial giving and living is a thing of the past.

Just curious, how many of you attend a church that has a paid Counselor on staff?

We don't even pay the pastor...

If a church needs to pay a counselor for their services, that's a church I don't think I'd like to be part of. Sounds like the church has a lot of problems to need a paid counselor.

Rhoni. Can you be my Pastor so I can quit my day job? Im some of those things listed

The pastor and his wife do any "counseling" needed in our church..... (Sorry, just couldn't resist)

Our Administrative Pastor happens to have his masters in Counseling, and is also a part of the AACC (Christian network). It's great, because we send almost all of the counseling to him, and we do very little of it ourselves. My hubby doesn't have the personality to counsel; he tends to tell people what to do and actually expects them to follow through. LOL! He's not good at just sitting and listening for hours.

So does my pastor. always has been that way too.

That is great you have someone else to help in the counseling. If he were not there, would yall hire a Counselor?

Then the paid workers can do all the door knocking, hours of intereceeding and bible study while the rest of us just faithfully pay tithes and go home and watch American Idol