Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minister
 

Cool, I drive by a PAW church frequently as I take care of business and I always wanted to stop and talk with them, today it happened.

They are having a special youth service today and I need someone to come into our elderly facility for bible studies, music and they are perfect.

At any rate, I spent two hours talking about stuff. No wonder the UPC doesn't have any inkling of a desire to get involved or even acknowledge them.

I will be in service with them tomorrow morning BTW...

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

What do you mean?
Are they whacko's?

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

You don't explain why you think the UPC stays away from them....

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

What is PAW?

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Right. I think it's a puzzle...


at least I am puzzled.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

your avatar's foot?:toofunny

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

From Wikpedia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penteco...s_of_the_World

Really it has everything you wanted to know.

The Pentecostal Assemblies of The World, Inc. (PAW) is the oldest Oneness Pentecostal organization in existence, and was founded in 1906, formally organized in 1912 as adherents of trinitarian beliefs, and in 1916 re-organized as a Oneness Pentecostal organization...

As I was speaking with this gentlemen, meeting some very fine folks going in and out of the church, I realized they do not embrace, nor do they believe they are biblical, the social and cultural standards the UPC embraces.

This man told me the PAW believes the doctrine, but that all the trappings of legalism and mandated holiness was pretty much sin.

They believe the exact same thing as the UPC does in terms of baptism, speaking in tongues and salvation, and I told him this, most UPC and/or ultraconservative apostolic individual would say your women are not saved.

He really liked that one. He said y'all need to be delivered from that.

:D

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Check out their site.http://www.pawinc.org/

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Maybe one day. Just maybe! :)

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

The foot of a four legged mammal silly!!!!!:bliss

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Amen

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

A couple of things to keep in mind...

1. Those who dress conservative are not automatically legalistic.

2. Many if not most UPC adherents would not say dress standards as they practice them are required or "mandated for salvation".

3. Not practicing "dress standards" or having no minimum dress requirement does not indicate an absense of legalism... but it may be indicative of laxness in other, more important areas of Christian living.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Excuse me? What in the world are you talking about? No wonder? because they talk to long? Two hours? Something is missing here...especially the part about the UPC having no inkling (whatever that means) of a desire to get involved or even acknowledge them. Says who? Please prove this statement

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Many PAWs still hold a lot of standards other than the jewelry and hair one. The PAW women I see wear cheap jewelry, not gaudy stuff and they cut their hair, but many have no makeup and wear dresses.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Or the father of a coon killin boy

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

I've just never understood why we would want to have these extra Biblical "standards" they do nothing but create barriers and burdens for people to crawl over. When will we outgrow this silliness? Do we think God is pleased with us for making serving him difficult?

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

You would have to ask someone who views these things as you presuppose in this post.

A proper concept of Christian disciplines should be about blessing and support - not burdens and barriers.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

I was once told that the PAW invited a Trinitarian preacher to speak at one of their recent conventions. I find that amazing and appaling, if true.

That's something you'd never see at a UPCI convention, ever.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Have you boys had your "fun" with my PAW question?

I hope so.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...tar_1588-1.jpg

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Fellowship between trinitarians and oneness still goes on but usually at the local church level. I remember back in the nineteen seventies when the Ohio District of the ALJC rescinded a pastor's license/credentials because he had a trinity minister (I think he was Church of God) preach for him on more than one occasion. It bothered me back then that they as an organization did not allow that much liberty to a pastor and local church. I've been to a UPC church quite a few years ago when they had a trinitarian singing group come on more than one occasion.

The late AD Urshan started to baptize people in the name of "the Lord Jesus Christ" in Chicago, IL back in 1910 but he himself was not baptized that way until about 5 years later while preaching in Persia and Russia. He still continued to minister in both trinity and oneness churches until some time in 1918.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

I understand POA and others have had non OP speakers on a somewhat regular basis.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

We read and preach from a Bible (King James Version) translated by trinitarians.

We sing a lot of songs that were written by trinitarians.

The UPC Publishing House has lots of books, etc. which are trinitarian in origin.

Lots of oneness ministers plagiarize trinitarian sermons and pass them off as something they've heard from God. I remember a UPC minister who was a second year student at ABI when I was there as a first year student in 1956/1957. As part of his homework assignment he had to turn in a sermon every week. The way he did this was he had a friend type one up each week from the Pentecostal Evangel (an Assemblies of God publication). He explained to me that God "gave" him those weekly messages by providing him the money to subscribe to the magazine. I've heard my UPC pastor preach a sermon that I had previously read in the Pentecostal Evangel.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Yeah, God forbid that a oneness pastor would have one o' them "heathern" devilish, unsaved, tongue talkin' trinnies in their pulpit. God would condemn the man, I tell you! Banish him from the promised land! Take away his inheritance! Destroy his church! And a host of other things that he would deserve from such a dastardly deed!!! :D

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Aw carp, you said "He said y'all need to be delivered from that."


Been there done that, working towards the kingdom.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Do you mean the Pentecostals of Alexandria? My cousin is on staff there and I have never heard of them having trinitarian preachers. When I lived in Alexandria, I picked up Bro. G. A. one day from the Airport. He personally talked to me about a big burden he had for a former AG pastor who had then gone out of that organization. That minister had a growing and thriving church in Alexandria and still does (I believe his son now pastors it). Anyway, GA said that he was praying that God would deliver those people from this Balaam like preacher.

I respect Bro. GA and believe firmly in the oneness (and all it entails), but I do not agree with that statement he made. Of course, him being my elder I did not disgree with him.

Anyway my point on the matter is I have never known of a trinitarian preach there. Over 8 years ago there were some HGF black baptist ministers from Shreveport who got baptized in Jesus name, and they were allowed to testify. However, they were never invited to preach.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

I think you are incorrect here. I don't think the POA has had any trinitarian preachers that I know of behind their pulpit to "preach".

Anthony has had "seminars" with folks like John Maxwell or had him speak to a group of ministers but as far as having a trinitarian preach a church service - I don't think it has ever happened.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

MANY years ago, my UPC member pastor os our independent church, had the Roy Knight Singers come and sing for our congregation.

Their major song was "Wrapped Up, Tied Up, Tangled All Up in Jesus". Great song, Oneness people shouting all over the place despite the second verse.

"After I got salvation, I wanted a little bit more, so I got down on my knees, and began to seek the Lord. I knew the Holy Spirit, and I prayed for Him to come, before I knew it, I found myself speaking in unknown tongues."

Did the person get salvation before they spoke in tongues??????

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Well actually that IS what I was refering to. John Maxwell is a non-OP Christian speaker.

Why should he be disqualified? was the pulpit not used? :)

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

This was done during BOTT and it was strictly on leadership principles. There was never any doctrinal issues discussed.

However, they have never preached to his congregation.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

The PAW and the UPC are in biblical error. When ever you hear a church say its ok to wear what ever you want and /or you can wear JEWLERY, its in error. 1Timothy 2:9-10 and 1Peter 3:3-4 is right in the bible, and not going anywhere. So, the PAW and the UPC are both going to hell, if they don't obey the bible

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Wow

So I guess Joseph is going to hell and Daniel too?

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

I understand - I really do, but I am saying there is no difference.

I think there is no problem having Trinitarians speak/preach. Of course as you stated, I would not expect any controversial "doctrine" being preached.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Well, if you are a one-stepper Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal you have no problem with those words.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

So a necklace is wrong if it is made of gold, silver, pewter, plastic, coral,
diamonds, pearls, brass or whatever material except cloth, but if it is made of cloth and called a "necktie" then it is OK?

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

I'm writing to respond to other comments I have just seen. One mentioned Joseph and Daniel must be going to hell then. Joseph and Daniel were not in the church, and was NOT under the New Testament law. Its two different dispensations, and two different laws. Somethings from the old testament continued through to the new testament, but the new testament CLEARLY CONDEMNS JEWLERY 1Timothy 2:9-10 and 1Peter 3:3-4, so why be a hypocrite about it and try to condone wearing jewlery? Now for the next question. A neck tie is NOT jewlery, its CLOTHING. Why be a hypocrite? You know the difference. Lets see you go to a jewlery store and say can I have a neck tie of cloth, and see if they don't look at you like your crazy. Just do what the bible say and what I say, and pull OFF the jewlery.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Well MoW, your off-base and over-the-top response doesn't surprise me at all.
The term "doctrinal compromise" seems to mean little to you. Very sad.

Anyway... Carry on, bro.

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

I agree by the way have you ever heard of Bishop S. C. Johnson?

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

No it's not jewelry ..you are corrrect it is apparrel ...which the same verse commands not to be worn.

Bobby boy....you are so tangled up in idealogy that it's unlikely you could ever understand theology.

Like the PAW preacher told Carp....."you need delivered from that"

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

Does your pastor wear bow ties and smashed a statue of Mary?

Re: Just spent two hours talking with a PAW minist
 

So do you partake in elitist UPC bashing propaganda every day?

It sickens me how one sided people's views are. I have been to one church that rudely judgmental and UPC, it will remain unnamed.