God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

The "works of the devil" are : sickness, disease, death, poverty, oppression, etc. They are always "works of the devil", all the time. They are not the "will of God", because there are none in heaven, and there were none here on Earth, before the devil brought them to Adam and Eve in the garden, and they received them.

GOD IS A GOOD FATHER, ALL THE TIME. THE "WORKS OF THE DEVIL" ARE BAD, ALL THE TIME.

"God is the greatest parent the world has ever know." : Alan Oggs.

(Lk 11:12) shows us that our heavenly father would never give us something that would hurt us. This is established as a truth by the words of Jesus.

Jesus came to destroy "the works of the devil". (I Jn 3:8). God will never use "the works of the devil" to save us. We cannot be saved by works, even the devil's works. If you could, then the devil could boast. (Eph 2:9)

Jesus went about healing all that were oppressed of the devil. (Acts 10:38). How could God then justly, use "the works of the devil" to benefit us in anyway? I say He could not, without being unjust.

God will never use the "works of the devil" to correct us. The word of God is given for correction. (II Tim 3:16-17) If you will not be corrected by the word, then you will not be corrected, even by "a work of the devil". (Lk 16:31)

Oppression never benefited Isreal, it only made them bitter toward God. They were phony. They would cry the the Lord, then as soon as He delivered them, they would murmur and complain. The final result was, they died by the millions.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

While I almost totally agree with you, I do see evidence of God "using" the which came through the devil as you described.

Use your analysis of the oppression that Israel experienced. God removed His protection from Israel due to their sins and allowed heathen nations to come in and oppress them.

While it may only be a play on words, the results of sin is the devils works. So, while God is not inflicting people with sickness because there is no sickness in God, that which is of the devil is a result of one not walking rightly with God.

In 1 Corinthians we see Paul using the devil's works to ensure a persons salvation:

1 Cor 5:5
5 {I have decided} to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
(NAS)

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

2Th 2:11 And for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion,that they should believe a lie
this is something God does that we like to blame on the devil

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

God also used the devil with Job. He used evil concerning the death of His Son, Joseph told his brothers that what they did to him they meant for evil and God meant it for good. Christ stated that a man was born lame for God's glory. Imagine God having a person be born a cripple just for Him and it had nothing to do with the sin of the man nor his parents!

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Lazarus died...God used it for HIS glory.

Many were sick and Jesus healed them, for God's Glory.

Gen 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Absolutely, God does get glory from destroying the works of the devil.

I contend that God does not use the works of the devil the save us, to correct us, the teach us, to train us.

There's a preacher who has preached at Peace Church several times, and says that God gave his mother cancer, to save his brother. Now I don't believe that is scriptural in light of Lk 11:12.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

God used the devil to bring about the death of Christ. When Christ arose from the grave God received glory. But He had to die first.

There are too many instances where God received glory from a human's assault by satan.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

God is truth, God is light, and there is no darkness in Him at all. It would be inconsistent with God's nature to send delusion, (which is darkness). Now He may have allowed the devil to send delusion, but God has none to send.

I think the KJV translators got it wrong.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

You are not painting a very good picture of God. Bro.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Some of you have scripture contradicting scripture. We all know that cannot be true, so somebody has it wrong somewhere.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

ESV says it the same way- 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Not to be sarcastic in the least, but on what basis is this a mistranslation?

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Here's Josh. 11:19-20--- 19 There was not a city that made peace with the people of Israel except the Hivites, the inhabitants of Gibeon. They took them all in battle. 20 For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be devoted to destruction and should receive no mercy but be destroyed, just as the Lord commanded Moses.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Deut. 2:30-34- 30 But Sihon the king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him, for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that he might give him into your hand, as he is this day. 31 And the Lord said to me, ‘Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land over to you. Begin to take possession, that you may occupy his land.’ 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Jahaz. 33 And the Lord our God gave him over to us, and we defeated him and his sons and all his people. 34 And we captured all his cities at that time and devoted to destruction every city, men, women, and children. We left no survivors.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

On the basis that it disagrees with Lk 11:12.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

You're off topic. This has nothing to do with God's parenting skills.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

How do you know it's not the Luke passage that is mis-translated?

Could it be possible that there are aspects of God's character that are beyond our comprehension as we have nothing in our experience to compare them with?

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

It shows God causing calamity for His ultimate plan. In fact he caused that king to sin.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

James 1:13 "...neither tempteth He any man." It's obvious that anyone can candy shop any translation and cherry pick a verse to say anything they want it to say. They can't all be right.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Can you reconcile the two?

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Bump for Larry.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

No, contradictory statements cannot be reconciled. I know that no scripture in it's original autograph, would contradict another. The true meaning got lost in translation. Don't forget, your OT script was Hebrew. My NT script was from Greek. Just take whatever interpretation you want. That's what we all do anyway.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Lar is right in his premise of this thread. He did not say that God didn't use sinners. He said He does not use the "works" of the devil.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

thanks Cindy

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Sure, I think they were looking for something complicated.....lol

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

No I don't think so. If you want to see what God the Father is like, look at Jesus. (Jn 1:18; 14:9)

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

God uses the 'works' of the devil. Sickness in the form of paralysis of the lame man that Jesus healed. Jesus said that the man's sickness was so that Christ could raise him up.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

My point is that there are aspects of God's character that you can't understand no matter how hard you try such as eternality, omniscience, all powerful, sovereignty, transcendence, immanence, etc. The greatest minds of this world can't understand it so how can you or me?

Ecclesiastes 8:16-17 - 16When I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done on earth, how neither day nor night do one’s eyes see sleep, 17then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know,he cannot find it out.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

I agree with you. When I read Rev 4:8:

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. (KJV)

What I get from this is that these four beasts in looking at the throne of God are so enthralled with the majesty of God that at every turn they see a new dimension of God.

I think there is so much to the glory, majesty, and complexity of God that there is no possible way we could ever (at least on earth) comprehend the completeness of God.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

So you are saying truth is unknowable?????? God can't preserve His word???? A little study in the subject might do some good.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

WADR: Bro ReformedDave, That's your interpretation of what it says, but I don't believe that's what it says.

The word says God is no respector of persons, God could not be righteous if He had made that man blind, even in order to heal him. Furthermore where would God get the blindness? He would have to steal it from the devil, in order to make the man be born blind.

Besides all that, man put in the punctuation marks. If you move some punctuation marks, it can say something totally different.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

God's word, as written by holy men of old, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, is absolutely true, accurate, and, infallably. However, we do not have any of the original documents (just hand written copies-many incomplete-some different than others). Languages have changed, word usages have changed, and some words are now archaic and no longer in our use.

Due to all these factors, no translation can be taken entirely at face value. You have to compare and diligently search out the appropriate meaning of many many verses. Man translated the Bible and man is not infallable. The KJV was inspired by King James I, of England.

I am not trying to take anything away from the Bible, I'm a student of the Book. I'm just saying that The Bible must be approached with and open mind and a true love for truth.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Why do you study a book you cannot trust??? How do you know ANYTHING is the Word of God? Isn't sad God can't preserve His word?! You seem to pick and choose your Scriptures. Keep some and deny those that you can't reconcile with your thinking.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

I believe God is a God who is love, He is righteous, He is just, He cannot do wrong, He cannot lie, He cannot steal, He cannot do anything that goes against His word. THis is the nature of the God that I serve. Any verse that seems to contradict God's nature, is not conveying the proper meaning.

You would have me believe that a God who is love would make a man be born blind and live in that torment for more than forty years, just so he could get Himself some glory. You are are picking and choosing what you want to believe just like I am.

You would have me believe that God used Job as a guinea pig, and allowed him to be tormented in the most hideous of ways, (stuff like Saddam Hussain would have used) just to prove to the devil that he wouldn't crack under the pressure. God obviously was suffering from a rejection complex after Adam and Eve chose the devil over him. NO I don't believe that. The devil did all the that stuff, to Job, because Job had exposed himself to the devil, by living in constant fear.

You're picking and choosing what you want to believe about the Bible. Do you hate your family? Are you disciple of Jesus? It is written, that Jesus said unless you hate your family you can't be his disciple. Of course He didn't say that, He didn't speak English. What did he say then? He said you must put Him first, ahead of family.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Larry, I do not do, as you are appearing to, cut out parts of the Scripture. I believe all 66 books are cannon and that none of it contradicts itself. It is clear that you pick and choose your hermanutic principles to fit your preconceived bias. If you don't like what the Bible says it MUST be interpreted or translated wrong. Amazing! What is your training in ancient biblical languages and the science of translation?

You reject the CLEAR teaching of Scripture that states that God allows and causes somethings to happen to humans because He chooses it for His reasons. You can't answer why He allowed the devil to torment Job? The Bible states that Job was an upright man and the devil knew that. God had to take down His protection of Job so the devil could get at him. Why did He create the blind man in his condition? Scripture states that it was not the blind man or his parent's sins but so Jesus could raise him up. Larry, if you believe what the Scripture actually states you cannot get around that. BTW, why did God allow evil men to kill His Son? What kind of mean father would do that?

All you have proven is that there are several passages in the Bible that you don't like so you explain them away. You have no rational basis for accepting part and rejecting part. You are trying to make a god in your own image and likeness. The same God Who is a God of love also has the ability to hate and Scripture, at least in my Bible, says that He does. I may not understand everything but I know better than to think that in my puny mind I can comprehend that awesomeness of a God Who creates according to His own pleasure.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Is R C Sproul your favorite calvinist author?

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

I believe that God allows things to happen to us because of the Job story. When God told satan, 'have you considered Job' it was God allowing those things to happen. I do not for a minute that that God does bad things to us, but we must remember there are always seasons that we go through. Life and death, lack and plenty. Those are seasons and well and being healthy and not being healthy. I have always had the opinion that God did not create evil in the sense that he spoke 'let there be evil'. I have always said the evil exists in a person or place what have you because God has removed Himself from that place. We know God is EVERYWHERE so for evil to exist or to start is happens when God removed Himself from that area or person. This can happen because the person denounces God and accepts another form of belief or God knows for His will to play out He must remove himself. As humans we have free will and we can walk away from God ultimately leaving God we walk into evil. Now we might not practice it, but a place without the presence of God is an evil place.

In any room in the world that has a light bulb you can see this idea in affect. In a pitch black room you flip that switch and light shines and darkness vanishes. Darkness exists because of the lack of light. When God created everything He 'spoke' light into existance because darkness was upon the face of the deep. It is a law that something exists because of the lacking of another force. Evil cannot exist when good is present. Good exists inorder to irradicate the evil that exists because the lack of good, make sense?

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Larry, Consider these Scriptures where it's clear that God uses evil, sin and calamity for His purposes-

Prov. 16:4-The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

Deut. 7:10- ...and repays to their face those who hate him, by destroying them. He will not be slack with one who hates him. He will repay him to his face.

Rom. 9:17-18 - For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

John 9:1-3- As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

Lam. 3:1-3 - I am the man who has seen affliction under the rod of his wrath; 2 he has driven and brought me into darkness without any light;
3 surely against me he turns his hand again and again the whole day long.

Ps. 119:75- I know, O Lord, that your rules are righteous, and that in faithfulness you have afflicted me.

John 11:4- 4 But when Jesus heard it he said, “This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”


These are just as much Scripture as any about the love of God. They both describe the same God.

Of coarse if you don't like these verses .......

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

No. He's a very fine 'populizer' of doctrine but not nearly my favorite. I prefer the puritans, the covenanters, and the dutch reformed along with the writings of Calvin, Turretin, Edwards, Augustine, and the modern writings of Van Til, Bahnsen, John Frame, and several others.

Re: God Does Not Use The "works Of The Devil"
 

Larry, are you working on a contradiction-free interpretation? The LCFV?