Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

God is omniscient = all knowing.

God is omnipresent = everywhere at once, not confined to present.

Why Did God Create Lucifer?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Not certain, but I beleive it was due to the fact God wanted to be worshipped by the person choosing to worship. I assume because He is all knowing that He knew Lucifer would fall, maybe He allowed that so He could create the human race. Humans of course are free moral agents and we can choose to worship or not. He wants all worship and we know He is jealous maybe this was the whole idea in His creative procees. Just a thought

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Why did he create darkness if he is light?

Lucifer was to be the chiefest of Angels & the top of his creation, before Lucifer rebelled, there was no sin or anything contrary to God & his order.

When Lucifer feel, the Angels & subsequently we humans, found out that God is just & holy & is a God to be feared & respected for his righteous judgements.

In our redemption, he is found to be loving, compassionate, merciful, kind, etc.

Did God want Lucifer to fall, no I don't think so, but how was his creation to know the consequences of sin & the eternal punishment it brings.

God is unfolding his eternal Mysteries,Purpose, & Character, by his interaction with his creation.

JMHO

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

my guess: because He wanted a creature that would serve Him willingly and be faithful to Him. He gave all the angels a choice to say yes or no to His commands, to serve Him freely of their own accord and not compelled to serve Him as slaves or robots. He wants those that share eternity with Him to be faithful. God foreknew Satan would exalt himself through pride and fall from his first estate. God allows Satan to tempt us in order to try us whether we will be faithful to Him or not. or something like that!






This is a hard question!

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Did he know that he would rebel? I say no.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Hmmmm...

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

If the angels had free will (including the ability to rebel) then what was the point in creating humanity...

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

How could He not know?

He is an omniscient God.

He absolutely knew Lucifer would rebel, and created him anyway.

Why?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

And since He knew Lucifer would rebel could Lucifer NOT rebel?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Open thiest would hold the view that God doesn't know the choices you will make. I had a prof at Regent who holds this view.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Popular in some areas(Pinnock/ Saunders etc). Have you read John Frames' response, "No other God"?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

I don't adhere to that view.

I think He knew that Lucifer would rebel.

He did not make Lucifer rebel.

Two entirely different things.

Just because he knew what would happen, does not mean that there was no free will involved.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

So since God knew from before history that Lucifer would rebel Lucifer could have not rebelled? What would that have done to God's omniscience?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

I haven't really read too much on it one way or the other. Lyle Story at Regent University holds that view and I had him for a class and we discussed it briefly outside of class.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

The only reasonable answer is that God knew and He has a purpose in Lucifer's fall.
Why did God then create man, knowing that man could be infected with the sin virus?
Again the answer is He knew and He has a purpose in man understanding good and evil. If God knew all these things and He did, then the doctrine of endless torment is completely inconsistent with God's nature and character.

The final answer is that God will completely redeem ALL of His creation. This redemption cost the life of the "only begotten Son of God", all of this whole process glorifies God!
Some folks will rebel longer than others but all will finally surrender willing to the either the love and grace of God, or they will surrender to the severity of God. Both His love and His severity serve the same purpose, similar to our love and severity to our wayward children.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

I agree!!!!! With about a third.......:happydance

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Just my 2 cents worth... Can good exist without evil?

Consider Isaiah 45:7. Some have seen an important difference in the verbs used here. What is said is that the Hebrew verbs used for "create" in the context of "light" and "peace" indicate a different activity than the verbs used for the "create" of "darkness" and "evil." I'm no Hebraist and can't really argue it one way or the other, just my observation of what the "experts" have opined.

The idea here is that God did NOT really have to do anything to create "darkness." God's activity was to create the light, however a necessary consequence of "light" is shadow and darkness. To really understand this you have to appreciate that there was no "darkness" before the time of the creation. "Darkness" first appears as a consequence of the presence of "the earth" and "the deep..." (Genesis 1:1).

Basically, it is said, to "create" the "darkness" all God had to do was to simply do anything at all. Just by being there and having an existence distinct from anything else, darkness would come into being. There are no shadows in the void. Only when you have a light source do you have a shadow.

So, perhaps, it is with God and evil. All He had to do was to do anything at all and there existed at least the potential for evil. His nature is such that just by "showing up" other things suddenly are compared in contrast to Him. Inevitably, some things look really bad.

As a corollary, consider how it was when He first "showed up" in your life (I remember mine). Suddenly I didn't feel like I was so just and righteous. In fact, I felt rather unclean. He has that effect, just His presence.

So when He created anything that existed apart from Himself, that "thing" or person immediately had at least the potential to be evil. It was inevitable. The only other choice would have been to do nothing at all, and then where would we be? We simply wouldn't be. There would not have been anything but Him and His holiness. But He appears to have wanted something more. And so, there's us and evil and pain and suffering and moments of joy and everything else.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

I always thought it was about choices.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

According to Talmudic commentary, Psalm 144:3 is a complaint by the angels. They are said to be astonished by what God has done in creating man.

In verse 2, following the Masoretic text (that the KJV does not at this point) and others, we find that "the peoples" are placed under the feet of this "king" being described. Then skipping over to Hebrews 2, it seems that the writer of Hebrews didn't have a King James Bible either and he (or "she", okay?) has a "king" in mind as well, ruling over peoples.

Further, the writer of Hebrews goes on to associate this "man" with "the Son." It almost seems that God created man for the very purpose of becoming a man Himself. No wonder the angels were astonished. Maybe this was too much for some of them and they rebelled?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

"Process theology"?

I prefer the path of accepting to seemingly unresolvable points, at the same time. Free will and determinism, simultaneously. God's foreknowledge and and our free will choices. Both sides of the coin, at once.

I contend that this is the only correct view. The Evangelicals and Pinnock and Saunders only see one side of the coin at a time, which is natural. But in the realm of the supernatural, both sides are evident together.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Jesus was the firstborn of every creature.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:25

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Well, we can rejoice together in that third, my brother!:happydance:happydance

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

So, what's Heaven going to be like? Will there be evil? Will there be good?

If there will be and can be no evil there, why didn't God just make the world like that in the first place?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

God created "Lucifer" to:

1) Hearken to the voice of His word.
2) do God's pleasure.
3) minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation.

"Lucifer", was the devil's good name, but he lost it, when evil was found in him, so I never refer to him in that term. It is mentioned only one time in scripture.

When God made him he was a good angel, but he went bad.

Angels are flaming, ministering spirits. (Heb 1:7) Their job is to hearken, "... unto the voice of His [God's] word". (Ps 103:20-21) Within that venue, they are ministers, who do God's pleasure, and they minister "for them who shall be heirs of salvation." (Heb 2:14) These seem to be the only jobs they are authorized to do. They were never given the legal right of free choice, as man was given.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

So, some of them took it anyway, illegally?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

How could he not know? Are you serious? Is it possible for God (who is omniscient, omipresent, and omnipotent) to lie? If not, then how was he able to create a being that could?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Your logic escapes me. Sorry.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

I have read this a dozen times and I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. did you leave out a sentence or something.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

No deep theological reason, he simply needed someone to hand Eve the apple.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

There is a complex theological term that has thankfully slipped my mind at the moment - something like "exclusionism" or something like that. I'm at work right at this moment and so I am also at least partially brain dead.

Consider "evil" being like the shadow cast when a light is shown upon an object. If that object didn't exist, there would be no shadow. If the light did not exist there would be no shadow either and for all intents and purposes the "object" itself would either cease to be or at least cease to be important.

Thus, in order for "good" to exist at all, evil must exist as a consequence. maybe this is why "the devil" and his cohorts keep coming back for more and why the "torment" of their punishment is said to be "forever." It's not because God is sadistic - it's because He can't do away with the evil in a universe of free choices without irreprably harming that same universe.

Whoa! Time to bail out and try the rellenos across the street. Ciao!

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

The question was directed to the person I responded to Timmy; had you read his response you might not be confused, but then again.........

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

I'm trying to apply the same logic for PP that he has applied to someone else. If you read the context in its entirity, then you might get it.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

But you missed the question (being partially brain dead, so no problem). Or didn't have time to finish (hearing the call for rellenos, so no problem). Just don't forget to come back.

How will Heaven escape this universe's unavoidable fate: "in order for 'good' to exist at all, evil must exist as a consequence"? Or will there actually be no "good" there?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Is God all-knowing? Did he create Lucifer? The answer to both questions is yes. God created Lucifer (andlater, men) knowing full well they would eventually rebel. Please note that He did not create them to rebel. He knew they would, and created. Them in spite of that knowledge.Study the Lamb Slain from the FOundation of the World. What does that statement mean?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

I read the post you responded to, if that's what you mean (didn't see a response to your question from him). Still confused.

Your response to "How could he not know?" was "Are you serious?" What is the terribly obvious answer that you are surprised that PP doesn't know? Did God obviously know that Lucifer would rebel, or did He obviously not know that he would rebel?

"Is it possible for God (who is omniscient, omipresent, and omnipotent) to lie?"

I would think not.

"If not, then how was he able to create a being that could?"

I would think easily. A non-lying God could create a lying creature, if He wanted to. What am I missing, Bro E?

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Hey Baron, I'm typing from my Blackberry. Forgive my punctuation errors.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Are you making fun of my ignorance? LOL. I seen one of my errors but was too late to correct it, but then you may see some I don't.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

God knows the end from the beginning. There is absolutely NOTHING he does not know. Because of His perfect foreknowledge and in His state of timelessness the future is an actuality for God , the Lamb was slain from the moment God's plan was formed in His mind, we were glorified Rom 8, the blood of the prophets was shed, even when in time none of these things had happened.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

There are numerous occasions in the Bible where God changes his mind based on the prayers, pleas or behaviors of man. Did he know all along, or (as open theists say), does he know everything there is to know at the time? He can obviously anticipate all outcomes to any decision that anyone can ever make, but does he know ahead of time what decisions free-willed creatures will make? Just asking questions. IMO, it does not limit God by saying that he does not know decisions we will make. Can he truly have a relationship with a pre-programmed entity? Maybe.... I don't know.

Re: Why Did God Create Lucifer?
 

Michael or Gabriel could have easily been the one to rebel. The real question is, did anything in Lucifer's creative makeup lead him to rebel? Such as if God made him less beautiful or the messenger angel instead of the worship angel. Lucifer must have been preordained to fall. If preordained to fall, will God feel some responsibility and redeem Lucifer in the future?