Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 519437)

I want many things, Ronald....

Personally, I'd like to stop playing "GOTCHA" w/ you.

For starters ... I want to see the Church focus on Jesus Christ and what He's done and can do in our lives in their preaching and teaching ....

I don't want error to be taught that frustrate and confuse the lives and walks of Spirit-filled believers like I believe this teaching does ...

Not everything is heaven or hell ... but how we can live victorious and more satisfying lives when we live by biblical principles ....

yet those on your side of the fence can't see that w/ your rose color glasses on.

I have never been quiet about my wanting to see the movement I grew up in progress and make reform .. (I know that's viewed as a dirty word).
and yearn to see a return what in the words of TF Tenney We must make the main thing ... the main thing ....

Does it have to look the way I want it to look ??? No, of course not, but what could be wrong w/ organic growth and teaching bible based principles rather than man-made traditions and philosophies?

I would like to see that organization I grew up in and my family gave their life to not get further entrenched in legalism and fall prey to the vocal minority that tried to hijack it for almost 3 decades ....

In doing so and rejecting this doctrine they gain credibility and make baby steps to being transparent and accountable to their mission: The Whole Gospel to the Whole World.

They do so by not profiting or sanctioning through apathy .... clear-cut heresy like this one ....

Furthermore, I believe the organization is profiting from the sale of these teachings through book, CD, and DVD sales although not officially endorsing it.

JJ's .... My Hair, My Glory is a top seller.

District funds are used to pay honorariums to speakers who have made it their ministry to speak about this topic from the point of view of "experts".

The org can sell whatever merchandise they choose but to say that this is not at least being tacitly promoted by those who influence the direction of the organization is not accurate.

Lastly, it affects the entire Body as a whole when core doctrines as the sovereignty, power and authority of the Holy Spirit and the Name of Jesus are replaced. Other core doctrines in question are the infallibility of the Word of God (as opposed to occult writings) and idolatry.

Nor can the effect of teaching performance over genuine obedience has in the heart of the believer and their walk in Christ .. be ignored.

Or what it does to members, pastors, and churches who do not want to be linked to what most see as a cultish teaching .... thus affecting their identities, credibility and potential to make an impact in their local communities.

You can dissect and find fault in all or parts w/ what I said ... even question my focus and delivery ... but I've answered the question you thought I would ignore or be scared to answer.

I seek not your approval but would appreciate the courtesy which gives me the benefit of the doubt by not putting words or intents in my mouth or peeking into my heart.

You don't even have to believe a word. But it is what it is ..... a bet you've lost.

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 520514)

Where would the UPC be without Dan? We are all lost without him. Can he accomplish what would be a monumental task for any mere human, but not for Dan? How is this all to be accomplished? What other reforms are needed? Where do you stand on the need for reform?

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 520518)

I think you may have taken Dan somewhat out of context...ie: the reason he wrote that post. :whistle

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 520514)

Where would the UPC be without Dan? We are all lost without him. Can he accomplish what would be a monumental task for any mere human, but not for Dan? How is this all to be accomplished? What other reforms are needed? Where do you stand on the need for reform?

Originally Posted by tstew (Post 520523)

You might want to rethink this, You've already heard about what happened to AFF because Dan left.:evilglee



J/K DA

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 520526)

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 520518)

I think you may have taken Dan somewhat out of context...ie: the reason he wrote that post. :whistle

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 520534)

what's out of context? I would like to hear Dan expound more on his views about how he is going to reform the entire apostolic movement.

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 520541)

DM,

A lot of folks think that Dan is bitter towards the UPC
and has sought out to by ridiculing it - do you share this
opinion? Most of them left the forum over this opinion
some are still here though.

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 520541)

DM,

A lot of folks think that Dan is bitter towards the UPC
and has sought out to by ridiculing it - do you share this
opinion? Most of them left the forum over this opinion
some are still here though.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 520547)

DM do you still believe, teach and preach that married couples should not engage in intimacy on church days?

Is your agenda against copulation between married couples even in the bible?

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...?t=7070&page=7

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 520551)

tu shay Pepe

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 520547)

DM do you still believe, teach and preach that married couples should not engage in intimacy on church days?

Is your agenda against copulation between married couples even in the bible?

Is God's Spirit quenched in our services because of this?

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...?t=7070&page=7

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 520546)

I think he is attacking the UPC to make a bigger name for himself. "Delusions of Grandeur". How does he think he can "reform" an entire movement? I just might be helping his cause, but I would just like to hear what exactly needs to be reformed and how he is going to accomplish that.

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 520562)

if I remember correctly that thread got shut down. Leviticus clearly states that engaging with a spouse makes you "unclean til the even". I still hold to the view that couples shuldn't engage on the day of a church service in order to be prepared to enter the presence of God. It's about spirtual reverence.

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 520562)

if I remember correctly that thread got shut down. Leviticus clearly states that engaging with a spouse makes you "unclean til the even". I still hold to the view that couples shuldn't engage on the day of a church service in order to be prepared to enter the presence of God. It's about spirtual reverence.

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 520568)

You are allowed to have that opinion and allowed to share with others why you have that opinion..... Even though it goes contrary to everything God says is good and righteous about marriage.

And if your going with Leviticus, please post some photos of all the doves, lambs, and ox you have killed whilst following the various ceremonies outlined.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 520565)

Originally Posted by DividedThigh (Post 520572)

all i can say is no preacher anywhere has any biz in my bedroom and i one tries to stick his nose there he will get it back broken and bloody, and that will be just from my wife, lol,dt

Originally Posted by DividedThigh (Post 520572)

all i can say is no preacher anywhere has any biz in my bedroom and if one tries to stick his nose there he will get it back broken and bloody, and that will be just from my wife, lol,dt

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 520534)

what's out of context? I would like to hear Dan expound more on his views about how he is going to reform the entire apostolic movement.

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 520576)

I firmly believe that the only ones who want to get INTO your bedroom, do so because they are not allowed to install video camera's.

Now just watch, someone will pipe up and say "I heard of a Church where all newly married couples were required to submit to having camera's installed.....". <sigh>

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 520562)

if I remember correctly that thread got shut down. Leviticus clearly states that engaging with a spouse makes you "unclean til the even". I still hold to the view that couples shuldn't engage on the day of a church service in order to be prepared to enter the presence of God. It's about spirtual reverence.