Why I break the law
 

There have been a number of posts on here trying to bring Christians back under the curse of the law. Some want us to obey dietary laws, others just random ones they have picked. The law is finished I do not live under the law. It matters not if you see it as a dispensation or a covenant. The Old Covenant is done. Finished. Complete. Why would you want to follow something weak and useless, and obsolete when we have a better covenant?

Hebrews 7
11If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
12For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.

18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Ch 8
7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.

13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear
.

Re: Why I break the law
 

"Sin shall not be my master. For I am not under law, but under grace."

Re: Why I break the law
 

Paul calls the Galatians fools for returning to the law.

Galatians 3
Faith or Observance of the Law
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
4 Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?
5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d]
12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e]
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."[f]
14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Galatians 3:19
What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.

Last I checked that Seed has come.

Galatians 3:23-25
23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

People of faith don't need the law.

Re: Why I break the law
 

I have no interest in pretending to be Jewish... I liken it to the white suburban kids who try to be black. I'm a Caucasian of Irish descent, not sure why I would want to be Jewish, or Italian, or Russian, or German, etc. I'm happy with my actual heritage and do not need a pretend one.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Faith in Christ establishes the law.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)


God's law still exists, Bro. Otherwise, there would no longer be such a thing as sin or righteousness.

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:4 (KJV)

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4 (KJV)

The difference between back then and now is that God puts His laws on our minds and writes them in our hearts.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:10 (KJV)

In my opinion, it's dangerous ground to be on to think that everything pertaining to the law has been done away with. Thinking along those lines opens the door for a false sense of security to take hold in people where they think they can sin freely without having to worry about the consequences. I will go so far as to say that this misunderstanding concerning the law is what leads people into believing doctrines like once saved always saved and error concerning grace. Faith in Christ buys us the righteousness found in the law, but it doesn't free us to sin. It frees us from sin and its power to dominate our lives.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Very true. If you read the book of Galatians, not just scripture by scripture, but read it as a letter as it was written, the entire letter is about them allowing themselves to be put back into the bondage of the law, and bringing back in the customs and "rules" of the past. Paul is setting them straight!

I think people "proof text" too much by taking a scripture here and a scripture there (out of context) to prove their points...but if you read the WHOLE letter, the whole story and look at the bigger picture....the image is much clearer....and very different.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Rico,
Ask yourself why 2 books of the New Testament were written about the law passing away, being inferior, and not for today. In context Paul’s reference to another Gospel is those who would force Christians to obey the law.

If righteousness was found in the law then Christ dies in vain.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Baron, what I find interesting is the very same books you claim prove your point have other verses in them to keep people from falling into the trap of getting the wrong idea concerning this "doing away with the law." Ask yourself this one question: Is breaking one of the ten commandments still a sin or not? If you believe it's still a sin to commit murder then you are establishing the righteousness found in the law, because the law says murder is a sin. I will agree that we are not bound by the sacrifices prescribed in the law, because Jesus is the only sacrifice we need to obtain forgiveness of sin. This does not, however, change the fact that sin is the transgression of the law. You do a good job of presenting one part of what the NT says concerning the law, but you are leaving out the other parts that are there to act as a counter weight to keep people from getting the wrong idea about what Paul is trying say.

Re: Why I break the law
 

When Jesus established a New Covenant he established new laws, just like it says in Hebrews. It is not only wrong to murder under the New Covenant you can't hate your brother either. If it is only found in the law it stays there.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Baron, you are going to have a hard time proving this, Brother. I've already posted some scriptures that are referring to the OT. Here's a little something for you to think about. The Law, in and of itself, is not a covenant. A covenant is an agreement between two parties. The old covenant was that man would follow the law and offer sacrifices any time he broke that law. The new agreement is that man has faith in the sacrifice God made to fulfill His own law, and He will credit man as if He had followed all the law.

Re: Why I break the law
 

It's interesting that in several places John and Paul quote from the case law of the OT as it is relevant and binding. BTW, where do we get the understanding that bestiality is wrong?

Re: Why I break the law
 

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.

Did the priesthood change?

The law is part of the covenant, read Exodus 19:5 it is an agreement between two parties, God and Israel. Israel's part was to obey the laws that were given immediately afterwards. It was a performance based covenant.

As for your last point God doesn't fill us with his Spirit to obey the law.

Where in Scripture does it say only the sacrificial part of the law is done away with. Under your view you have to keep all of the laws including the dietary laws. The law has been described as a piece of glass you can't break a part of it if you break it your guilty of breaking the whole law.

Re: Why I break the law
 

I would like to know exactly what you are referring to with John and Paul. That is all the Scripture they had, and they were making application to the New Covenant but I don't see where they commanded us to keep the law.

Sex with anyone (or anything) other than your spouse is a sin. That would be New Covenant.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Baron, I don't think you're getting what I am saying. Answer me this one question: If you break one of the Ten Commandments, are you committing a sin?

Re: Why I break the law
 

which one?

Re: Why I break the law
 

That would be the New Covenant affirming what had already been established in the Old Covenant, Baron.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Pick any one you want. Can you break one of the Ten Commandments and it not be a sin?

Re: Why I break the law
 

Not affirming, establishing the New. Just because there are similar teachings in both doesn't make the Law of the Old Covenant something we follow.

Rico have you ever wrote a contract? Almost every contract dealing with the same general topic has items that are the same, but I can’t take a contract with Pepsi and enforce it against Coke. I have to apply the contract with Coke, and it may have some identical clauses but it is not the Pepsi contract.

Re: Why I break the law
 

I think My Pepsi/Coke contract answers your question.

Re: Why I break the law
 

How about keeping the Sabbath?

What day is it? Saturday or Sunday? What if your caught.... picking up sticks on that most holy of days?

Re: Why I break the law
 

Baron, clearly we are in pretty different places as it relates to the spectrium of "conservitive/liberal" Oneness Apostolic. but I get what you are saying here.

My dad called yesterday and asked me where the scripture was that said not to tattoo.

I gave him the passage, but also told him he needed to be careful if he was going to stand on that particular scripture all by itself to tell someone it was wrong to get a tattoo.

I then read the verse directly above it. that passage says not to trim your beard!

EVERYTHING we take from the OT had best have a firm foundation in the NT, otherwise we will be responsible for the ENTIRE law. (Paul said that not me).

Re: Why I break the law
 

If you enter into a new contract with Pepsi, saying you will credit them everything the old contract promised them, does that then mean the old contract is completely useless and of no value, especially if the new contract constantly refers back to the old contract?

Re: Why I break the law
 

1Timothy 5:18 - For the Scripture says,"You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.",

2 Cor. 6:14- Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Romans 10:6-8 - But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);

This is good for a start.

Re: Why I break the law
 

I'm not so liberal, are you that conservative? :highfive

Re: Why I break the law
 

well, lets just say for me, threads like this still are a bit uncomfortable..... even if they are good points of discussion....

and I am a down the middle modereate on just about everything.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Very important post. This is one of hermanutic philosophy. Most assume a complete lack of continuity between the OT and the New. It appears that scripture assumes continuity unless the old provision is expressly changed or fulfilled by the New Covenant.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Applications of the law. The teaching of the NC was being established by God using application from the old. Do you think anyone would get what Paul did about not muzzling the ox? He didn't say you are not to muzzle the ox he used to say something completely unrelated.

Re: Why I break the law
 

God said he would make a New Covenant, not credit us the Old. When you have a new contract the old one is void.

Re: Why I break the law
 

What do we do with Jesus' words where he says he did not come to replace/do away with the Law but to fullfill the law?

Re: Why I break the law
 

I'm glad he started it. He and I have discussed this issue on other threads and via pm, but this is the first time we've discussed it in a thread dedicated just to this topic. I agree with you that it can get uncomfortable. Too much one way and the cross loses its effectiveness. Too much the other way and you end up believing you are free to sin at will. If ever there was an area that calls for balance, this is it.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Unrelated? He applied the law. It is still binding. The case law was application of the more 'general' law. The muzzling of the ox in the OT applied to more than the literal reading. It did then and it does now.

Re: Why I break the law
 

He said he didn't come to abolish it but fulfill it. He fulfilled it. Fulfilled means to complete.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Except the validity of the OT is confirmed throughout the NT.

Re: Why I break the law
 

This is not about antinomianism. People of faith are ruled by him not by a strict list of do this don't do that.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Let's tackle it from another angle. Do you believe that the Law expresses, or makes knows, the righteousness of God?

Re: Why I break the law
 

He didn't apply the law he used a principle from the law, the writings of the New Testament is where we get the information about the New Covenant.

Re: Why I break the law
 

It shows the sinfulness of man to bring us to Christ.

Re: Why I break the law
 

Jesus is my Sabbath.

Re: Why I break the law
 

You haven't finished the passage. Christ states when it will be finished.

Mat. 5- 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you,(D) until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.