Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Peter says in Ac. 2:38 " the remission of sins" but in 1 Pt. 3:21 he writes that it does not "put away the filth of the flesh but does provide a "good conscience toward God."

Would a correct interpataion be that baptism allows us to have a "good conscience" to serve God; that it gives us the will (want to), but that it does not "wash away" our sins; it does not "put away the filth of the flesh."


Therefore, remission of sins in baptism=not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but a conscience toward God.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Not to rehash old arguments, but there are Greek experts who say "for the remission/forgiveness of sins" means "in order to obtain remission/forgiveness of sins" and there are other Greek experts who say "for the remission/forgiveness of sins" means "because of the remission/forgiveness of sins." I don't know Greek so I can't be an authority on it but the authorities don't even agree among themselves.

"answer" can mean "response" so "answer of a good conscience" could also mean "the response of a good conscience" i.e. that a person is baptized because their conscience is already clear with God.

Then there are those who look to the original text and explain how some of the terms are plural and some are singular and when matched up together would render that in modern English as "Y'all repent for the remission/forgiveness of y'all's sins and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

In my opinion, the baptism ritual is a symbolic washing,
just like in the communion ritual the matzo is the symbolic body of Jesus
and the wine is the symbolic blood of Jesus.

I can serve someone communion and say, "This is the body of Christ broken for you and this is the blood of Christ freely given for you," but that does not turn them into the actual body and blood of Christ.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Baptism in Jesus name, remits our sins to Him, and His blood covers them.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

I know many are bored with this topic but I have never discussed it before.

That is where I am coming from. I am really having a problem when I hear people preach that the water will wash away our sins and many apostolics I know preach this way. But to me that discounts the blood. I think the blood fully effectual to remit sins and baptism cleanses the sin conscience. To say that the water remits sin, to me, cheapens the blood of Christ.

Does that make sense?

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

I say just do it!

It is obviously a part of Christian initiation.

If someone is refusing baptism we should ask why. Perhaps, it speaks of a stated faith, rather than real faith in Jesus which is always accompanied by the works found in the New Covenant.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Remission of sins took place at Calvary when the blood was shed the ONLY way to experience what took place at Calvary in the NT church age is by baptism in Jesus Name. Baptism remits sins for the penitent. It is NOT a ceremonial washing that is what Peter is referring to however he states baptism saves!

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

A former pastor of mine, Frank Curts, taught that the blood of Jesus was in His name and if His name was spoken at baptism, His name/blood washed away sins. He taught that there was a difference between forgiveness of sin and remission of sin. He taught that men cannot forgive sin but they can remit sin by baptizing someone in Jesus' name. This teaching was based on John 20:23 in the KJV.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Sounds good to me!

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

To remit and to forgive are the same thing.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

It comes from the same word but I do NOT think forgiveness and remission are the same. Saints in the OT had forgvieness but NOT remission.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

There is no virtue in H20.When people repent they ask God to forgive them of their sins.
Of course Jesus Christ says baptism is essential,MARK:16:16.Baptism in Jesus Name is an act of obedience.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

True in the water is where it happens the water itself is the where and not the what. The blood remits sins through faith and obedience.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Read Romans 6. Until the old man is buried during water baptism, he is not removed. Thus until baptism, we are still carrying the guilt and stain of sin. Col 2 explains this as well when it says:

Col 2:11 in whom also ye were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh in the circumcision of the Christ,
Col 2:12 being buried with him in the baptism, in which also ye rose with [him] through the faith of the working of God, who did raise him out of the dead.
Col 2:13 And you -- being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh -- He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses,
Col 2:14 having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;
Col 2:15 having stripped the principalities and the authorities, he made a shew of them openly -- having triumphed over them in it.

(YLT)

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Amen!

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

A common Greek word is some times translated "forgive" and some times translated "remit" in our KJV. God's forgiveness includes not only pardon for guilt and release from the penalty for sin but also includes cleansing from sin. Based on the KJV, some have built a doctrine on the English words "forgiveness" and "remission" and have made them two different experiences.

A couple of examples are some times given to illustrate the difference between forgiveness and remission.

A person can owe a debt and can be "forgiven" the debt but that does not pay it off. It is only paid off if the money is "remitted" sent.

A person can spill something on a carpet and be forgiven for the act but the carpet is not clean until the stain is "removed."

Some Oneness folks teach that at repentance a person is forgiven of the guilt and penalty for sin but sin is not remitted or washed away or removed until baptism. There are actually quite a few Apostolic/Pentecostals who believe that way.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

I still like the scripture of Paul's conversion in Acts 22.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

I don't think this scripture would be in the Bible unless baptism doesn't wash away our sins.

God Bless

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

This is because many don't teach about the union of the water and blood. From Christ's side he gave birth to the church. When you look at the symbology of what came from his side was.. Water AND Blood. There is a reason why this is mentioned. It points to that which died and atoned and that which brings forth life are togethor. Notice in the old covenant water was used as well to bring about covenant. Water always has a very strong symbolic power by which God has used to complete faith and covenant. God has chosen this place as the place of "faithFULLNESS" .... the place in which your faith is completed or made perfect. Faith iis just mental assent unless one does what is compelled to bring it to it's completion. Obediance unto God's Word(faith) is always the very aspect of salvation. Faith alone does nothing.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

I have heard these arguments over the original Greek in Acts 2:38, and they all sound like Bill Clinton when he said, "it depends on what the definition of is, is."

First of all if it really means what they say, then why do none of the translations of the Bible have like it that? I have looked at MANY English translations, and 4 or 5 Spanish. They all agree. In other words, there are no translations that would support their opinion of the Greek.

Secondly, baptism for the remission sins in not only found in Acts 2:38. There are numerous Old Testament types going all the way back to the book of Exodus that give clear indication what baptism is for. How can we ignore that??? Also, what about Romans 6 and Acts 22:16???


TRW

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

THough I think the remission and forgiveness from a definition standpoint are excellent, they fail in the sense of application. The same word is used in the Greek text over and over again there is not distinction of use. I don't believe the disciples used a variance.

Here is a very interesting question.

What is the parallel or common symbol of "the blood"??????????? I see people miss this all the time and I never see it taught. Even though it is known they never apply it to the debate of baptism.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

with the other question above show me where in the Bible the moment "WHEN" the blood is applied. I want it stated in text. Yes it is a trick question to some extent and it feeds of the previous question in my previous post.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Good answer! Good answer!

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Amen!

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

I must disagree, Ferd. It's not a good answer and it is a poor example. Bill Clinton's comment wanted to give multiple definitions to the word "is". Those who seek to separate remittance and forgiveness attempt to do the same thing with the Greek, give the same word multiple meanings and they get to choose which meaning it has based on what they want the verse to say.

The fact is the Scripture does not distinguish between the two.

Sam is correct on this.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

Notice it says Repentance & Remission? Why say Repentance & Repentance?
Remission happens in his name.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

If remission of sins is preached in his name, happens in his name, when does his name get appied to our life-in baptism!

Baptism & Washing away sins, Hmmmm?

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Luke 24:47 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

And that repentance [with a view to and as the condition of] forgiveness of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Again, I ask where does the Bible say the blood is applied.
Alot of inference but no direct scripture yet. DIRECT scripture! Not the use of the words of remission or forgiveness but pointing to the actual application or point in time.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

I would say repentance and remission are two different aspects of salvation not the same event. Also the answer is in the Bible but one must undersatndthe most basic scripture.


Without shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. The answer is in the text in relation to a few scriptures.

add that to

"What is the parallel or common symbol of "the blood"??????????? " or the shedding of blood.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Your arguments rest entirely on the way you have interpreted a translation.

ESV
And now why do you wait?(A) Rise and be baptized and(B) wash away your sins,(C) calling on his name.'

(NLT)
What are you waiting for? Get up and be baptized. Have your sins washed away by calling on the name of the Lord.’

Amplified
And now, why do you delay? Rise and be baptized, and by calling upon His name, wash away your sins.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Hey Amplified Bible is the correct one, or should I say, whoever you look to that agrees with you is?

What happened to truth?

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

I'm not sure what you're trying not to prove but all of these translations link baptism and calling on the name of the Lord to a washing away of sins. Something that one steppers tell us happens at repentance.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

The same thing can be said of your argument.
However when you consider that baptism was a command, & practiced by the Apostles, your bag of arguments starts to get wet!

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

I would ask you the same question. You insist on defining one Greek word to mean two different things. Truth is not important to you, holding a doctrine that is contrary to the very words of Scripture is more important than truth.

How many translation would you like?

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

I would just like to say that I am FOR BAPTISM

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Acts 22:16 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation


16And now, why do you delay? Rise and be baptized, and [a]by calling upon His name, wash away your sins.

Footnotes:

Acts 22:16 Charles B. Williams, The New Testament: A Translation in the Language of the People: Circumstantial participle expressing manner or means.

The connection is between calling on the name of the Lord and the washing away of sins, not baptism.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

You would have been more convincing if you used the NASV to try to prove repentance is for the remission of sins.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

You could give me 1500 for all I care.
It isn't a doctrine contrary to scripture.

Did Jesus both teach & command baptism in the Gospels?
Did he not get baptized himself?
Did the Apostles baptize?

Where is your argument?

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

Too simple Ferd!
You need to get the "New Improved Version" that says it is extra & an add on to our Salvation.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

It absolutely does not. Baptism is about obedience. Interpreting Scripture based on what it says rather than on what I want it to say is at least being honest with the text.

The facts are in my favor regardless of how strongly you believe your error.

Me to.

Re: Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??
 

No sir. eis (FOR) found in Acts 2:38 gets to mean mulitple things!

that IS the arguement. what does it mean HERE.

I still say Brother Wiggens post was dead on accurate.