"All things are lawful"
 

From a non-OSAS standpoint how does one deal with this verse by Paul.

1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.

1Co 10:23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.

I have my own opinion but would like to seek the knowledge of the people on the board which cover many views.

Thanks!

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

bump

I would really like some input on this set of scriptures.

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

OP's are to skeered of that verse to comment Luke.

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I just take it at face value.

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

Baron,

Then in your view..(again just asking the normal follow through Q) murder, fornication, homosexuality etc... are lawful but just do not edify or build up?

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Face value to me is, pass the ham sandwich and don't tell me where you got the ham.

The context is eating meat that may have been offered to idols. The passage in chapter 6 though talking about sexual immorality makes reference again to eating.

"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."[c]

If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake[d]— the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?

31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

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In what world are these things lawful?

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We are talking about between us and God. Pauls is not dealing with society or government. Government does not decide sin. God does. To say all things are lawful, means one cannot sin from a direct reading. Without law there is no sin. Law gives the ability to judge transgression.
If no law no transgression.

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Was it a sin when Cain killed Abel?

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

Rico I am not arguing what sin is and isn't per the pasage just trying to find out what others think. I believe SIN is still SIN. I don't believe in the "all things are lawful" from a antinomian stand point but those that are consistent in OSAS have to believe that when you get down to it. We don't know all the understanding Adam had at the time and taught to his children. That is speculation. So to say well the Bible to that point does not give a law(which is what I think your point is) doesn't mean there wasn't.. It's speculation. Even is not revealed to them it still was sin. God's law is still law revealed or not but we are only judged by what we know. Without law/knowledge there can be no transgression unto judgement.

Rico this goes back to the previous thread on the law. God's natural laws are eternal they don't change as they are a product of his character. Thus God gave us laws to live by in relationship to the world around us that are a product of his nature. Which shows we relate to God and his divine order and to the people around us and the world itself. There is always law IMO!

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RICO, Is there still sin that can sin a believer to hell? If so how can ALL things be lawful! Without law there can be no transgression per Paul.

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I just addressed this, You have to look at what Paul said in context. In one case he was speaking of eating foods offered to idols. He was also speaking of meats and other things that some believers would stumble if they knew you were eating. Read back to Acts 15 and the issue of Jews, Gentiles and the law. The gentiles were told to keep certain food laws because there were Jewish believers or potential jewish believers in each city. Paul warns we can eat these things but if it causes a brother to stumble we should not.

A second more exact meaning is, we are not bound by the law. All things are lawful to him (as a jew), but not keeping the law in some cases might not be a good idea. He said in the same context then, to the Jew he becomes a jew, to the gentiles he is a gentile etc etc

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Re: "All things are lawful"
 

sorry but here is the problem with that in reference to Acts I never said it was Gentiles Paul took but Jewish brethren. Here is the big things....

The gentiles should keep THESE things(being 4) so not to offend the Jews but as you had said they could do these things as they are free or lawful... now. WELL then how do you explain the sexual immorality part? I guess it is lawful as it is in the same context. So as long as people you are around are not offended, HIT IT!

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

Prax is he saying ALL things are lawful just in food or are ALL THINGS LAWFUL? I don't believe in OSAS as that is what this text would have to say from a literal standpoint.

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

huh? I never said one thing about Paul taking gentiles to do anything. Please re-read what i said and the read Acts 15 not Acts 21

My post has absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened in Acts 21, however it does support my post in that the Jews kept the law and Paul would become a Jew to the Jews and a gentile to the gentiles.

Again please re-read what I posted again and if you disagree can you quote me and then refute what I said specifically? I pointed out Paul explains the food issue and it is IN the very context of the verse you posted about lawful. You are quoting that out of context. Look at the context as I tried to explain it to you.

Sorry but I just don't see the problem my post has from what you posted here

Paul NEVER said they can fornicate if nobody is around.

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

I follow the belief that many things are against the law in the days we live like murder, rape, stealing, etc. But what I believe he, Paul, is saying is different than what we see as being lawful, like as in breaking the law and sin. Paul is writting to saved believers. I believe that he is telling them that all things are ok for you to do, but not benefitial. I don't think that he is talk specifically about sin cause if he was then the verse would not make sense. I think he is addressing what the church at that time might have been going through. Saying it like this, you can do most things, but will doing most things be benefitial to you?

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.
1Co 6:13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"--and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.


1Co 10:23 "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up.
1Co 10:24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
1Co 10:25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

Paul is not saying we can live immoral lives. Food is nothing.

(1Co 10:31) So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

(1Co 10:32) Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,

(1Co 10:33) just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

My NET bible commentary has a different view here. They claim this "all things are lawful to me" is what the Corinthians say, not Paul and that Paul was correcting their view.

Let me quote the NET

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1Co 6:12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything.
1Co 6:13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"--and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
1Co 6:14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power.
1Co 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never!
1Co 6:16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, "The two will become one flesh."
1Co 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
1Co 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
1Co 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

Now, you have to remember that Gentiles were not required to keep the law. They were not forced to be circumcised etc etc. The only thing they admonished the Gentiles was the food thing and fornication (sexual impurity). Paul later explains the food issue more. So the Corinthians were kinda "drunk" on this idea of not being under the law of Moses and Paul was correcting their understanding that they can not just go do whatever they wanted. Thus his writings on food and why and his writings on fornication.

Read from chapter 5 through chapter 10 and you will see Paul specifically addresses foods and fornication or sexual immorality. This is the context of "all things are lawful"

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

Try putting the verse into the context of the chapter, and you will find it does permit anyone to shoot heroin and watch porn.

The apostle is NOT saying he is free to do as he very well pleases, but will not because it will not prosper him, nor the Kingdom of God. To think that the apostle is saying that he can do whatever he wants and still remained saved would be the same as saying he was an Epicurean.

To think that Paul is saying that he was saying that everything was legal and he would be free of sin, then why does he name sins and then tell everyone to abstain? :ursofunny

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

sorry Prax I quickly read it and confused 15 with 21! :tease I am kind of busy while scrolling here and there.

I want to make myself clear. I agree food is nothing when it comes to eternity or anything like that! It though is a good thing not to eat those things as God had a reason for it and it was health related. It thoug should not be a issue of contention in the sense of fellowship but more of good stewardship of the body. Making it a issue of contention per heaven or hell has never been my point. Paul is referring to food under the meaning you demonstrated in the sense of 1 Cor and others BUT the text does not allow for you to say so that it won't offend others due to the liberty of your conscience. As the text includes sexual immorality!

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I agree I don't think he is saying that. My question was how do you technically teach the meaning of the passage vs trying to praraphrase. To me in a strict sense it would have to be antinomian. I don't believe in OSAS or ES.

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Paul ONLY spoke of food in that context and clearly VERY clearly outlawed sexual immorality. Again context is very important. You can't read things into the context that is not there. It's very clear.

However consider what the NET bible commentary said too..did you read that?

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

I would agree on the others in 1 Cor but in Acts it makes no sense as food would be just as offensive among many other things. To limit to 4 in the context of Acts really makes little sense in the sense of weaker brother position. I would agree more with the it should not be done period, as that would fit the context with the part of sexual immorality. Sexual immorality does not fit the weaker brother scenario.

How do you understand though by itself ALL things are lawful. Paul may say not do it but that in itself does not mean one is judged still saved while still committing sexual sins etc.... IF all things are lawful yet all things are expedient then Paul could still say the same thing. Sexual sins might not be expedient but it would not effect your eternal salvation as no law would condemn them etc... where there is no law there is no transgression etc (per the position of OSAS advocates)

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

The food issues were raised because Jews have strict dietary laws. I did not say the sexual stuff fits the weaker brother. you keep saying that and I keep pointing out Paul ONLY said that regarding food and very clearly said fornication is a sin.

You can't understand "all things are lawful" by itself. You can't take something like that out of context. I have said that several times now. Don't take it out of context. Look at the context. I've repeat this same post now a couple times.

Paul was addressing FOOD in regards to weaker brothers, NOT NOT NOT fornication.

Paul is not saying "there is no law". Paul is not saying "do what yo will, you can't sin". To isolate that one verse is to take a verse out of context.

Additionally did you read my comment about what the NET bible commentary said?

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

This is how we teach that verse: There is a law of liberty, but we choose to hold to a HIGHER law of love. Just because you are free to do or partake of some things, it's better to abstain from them because of love you have for weaker brethren. That's why we teach abstinence from alcohol. We could do it and more than likely still be saved, but we choose not to because we love our brothers and sisters more, not to mention our love for God.

That's just one example, but it's how we look at several things. Not sure if it really explains the deeper meanings of the verse, but it's how we look at it.

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I still think you all should consider that the NET bible commentary says

Re: "All things are lawful"
 

JFB
1Co 6:12 -
1Co_6:12-20. Refutation of the antinomian defense of fornication as if it was lawful because meats are so.

All things are lawful unto me — These, which were Paul’s own words on a former occasion (to the Corinthians, compare 1Co_10:23, and Gal_5:23), were made a pretext for excusing the eating of meats offered to idols, and so of what was generally connected with idolatry (Act_15:29), "fornication" (perhaps in the letter of the Corinthians to Paul, 1Co_7:1). Paul’s remark had referred only to things indifferent: but they wished to treat fornication as such, on the ground that the existence of bodily appetites proved the lawfulness of their gratification.
me — Paul giving himself as a sample of Christians in general.
but I — whatever others do, I will not, etc.

lawful ... brought under the power — The Greek words are from the same root, whence there is a play on the words: All things are in my power, but I will not be brought under the power of any of them (the "all things"). He who commits "fornication," steps aside from his own legitimate power or liberty, and is "brought under the power" of an harlot (1Co_6:15; compare 1Co_7:4). The "power" ought to be in the hands of the believer, not in the things which he uses [Bengel]; else his liberty is forfeited; he ceases to be his own master (Joh_8:34-36; Gal_5:13; 1Pe_2:16; 2Pe_2:19). Unlawful things ruin thousands; "lawful" things (unlawfully used), ten thousands.

Barnes
All things are lawful unto me - The apostle here evidently makes a transition to another subject from that which he had been discussing - a consideration of the propriety of using certain things which had been esteemed lawful. The expression, "all things are lawful," is to be understood as used by those who palliated certain indulgences, or who vindicated the vices here referred to, and Paul designs to reply to them. His reply follows. He had been reproving them for their vices, and had specified several. It is not to be supposed that they would indulge in them without some show of defense; and the declaration here has much the appearance of a proverb, or a common saying - that all things were lawful; that is, "God has formed all things for our use, and there can be no evil if we use them." By the phrase "all things" here, perhaps, may be meant many things; or things in general; or there is nothing in itself unlawful.

Clarke
All things are lawful unto me - It is likely that some of the Corinthians had pleaded that the offense of the man who had his father’s wife, as well as the eating the things offered to idols, was not contrary to the law, as it then stood. To this the apostle answers: Though such a thing be lawful, yet the case of fornication, mentioned 1Co_5:1, is not expedient, ου συμφερει - it is not agreeable to propriety, decency, order, and purity. It is contrary to the established usages of the best and most enlightened nations, and should not be tolerated in the Church of Christ.
They might also be led to argue in favor of their eating things offered to idols, and attending idol feasts, thus: - that an idol was nothing in the world; and as food was provided by the bounty of God, a man might partake of it any where without defiling his conscience, or committing sin against the Creator. This excuse also the apostle refers to. All these things are lawful, taken up merely in the light that none of your laws is against the first; and that, on the ground that an idol is nothing in the world, there can be no reason against the last;