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-   -   Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation? (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=16841)

crakjak 07-17-2008 08:09 AM

Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
As one passes the half-century mark, I believe this is the most important question, in order to live out one's life with purpose rather than self-focus.

Without confidence in what God has done, and the future He has for his creation, many live out their lives "in quiet desperation." I believe this issue, unresolved prevents believers from effectively "serving their generation" fully, due to self-focus, fear of the unknown and lack of true faith in their salvation.

These are the very individuals with experience and understanding that is so important to be lights for the next generation. If we live in fear and doubt, we fail our children in that it sets them up for hopelessness.

What is your experience and how do you deal with this VIP question? Speaking to those above 55, this question torments many and causes many health issues prematurely.

Baron1710 07-17-2008 08:11 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 532772)
As one passes the century mark, I believe this is the most important question, in order to live out one's life with purpose rather than self-focus.

Without confidence in what God has done, and the future He has for his creation, many live out their lives "in quiet desperation." I believe this issue, unresolved prevents believers from effectively "serving their generation" fully due to self-focus, fear of the unknown and lack of true faith in their salvation.
These are the very individuals with experience and understanding that is so important to be lights for the next generation. If we live in fear and doubt, we fail our children in that it set them up for hopelessness.

What is your experience and how do you deal with this VIP question? Speaking to those above 55, this question torments many and causes many health issues prematurely.

Dude, you look great for being 100!!!!

crakjak 07-17-2008 08:14 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710 (Post 532774)
Dude, you look great for being 100!!!!

Why, thank you very much, my friend!!! I see a little editing is in order.

Michael The Disciple 07-17-2008 08:25 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Where are you getting this? 55 years and older tormented by doubts? I will be 55 next month. Yeshua is still real to me.

crakjak 07-17-2008 08:53 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 532785)
Where are you getting this? 55 years and older tormented by doubts? I will be 55 next month. Yeshua is still real to me.

There is a pervasiveness of depression in older folks all around us, this should not be the condition of believers that are secure in God's provision.

You can be confident in Christ, but many are not. Glade to hear that you are, as we age we much continue to be confident of our future.

BrotherEastman 07-17-2008 10:33 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 532772)
As one passes the half-century mark, I believe this is the most important question, in order to live out one's life with purpose rather than self-focus.

Without confidence in what God has done, and the future He has for his creation, many live out their lives "in quiet desperation." I believe this issue, unresolved prevents believers from effectively "serving their generation" fully, due to self-focus, fear of the unknown and lack of true faith in their salvation.

These are the very individuals with experience and understanding that is so important to be lights for the next generation. If we live in fear and doubt, we fail our children in that it sets them up for hopelessness.

What is your experience and how do you deal with this VIP question? Speaking to those above 55, this question torments many and causes many health issues prematurely.

I don't think anyone should worry Crak because everyone is going to heaven eventually don't you think?:tease

crakjak 07-17-2008 11:30 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman (Post 533086)
I don't think anyone should worry Crak because everyone is going to heaven eventually don't you think?:tease

But is everyone secure in that fact?? That is the issue that causes many to worry, because most OP believe you can fall in and out of grace, based on one's performance. :snapout:evilglee No wonder depression is so rampant in our culture and even in the church.

Oh, BTW according to scripture the New Heaven and the New Earth are coming down not our in the sweet by and by. This earth like all of its inhabitants is going to be made new, that "God may be all in all!"

Good to hear from you my friend.

A_PoMo 07-17-2008 11:41 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
I'm not at the half century mark yet, but I've had to face the fears of mortality and eternal judgment that those of the Geritol and Centrum Silver crowd face. I was forced to examine this question seriously and honestly about three years ago when I was diagnosed with CHF. Living with CHF forces me to be honest about it on a day to day basis. Having searched the Scriptures I can say "Yes" I am absolutely sure of my eternal salvation.

LUKE2447 07-17-2008 11:51 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 533213)
But is everyone secure in that fact?? That is the issue that causes many to worry, because most OP believe you can fall in and out of grace, based on one's performance. :snapout:evilglee No wonder depression is so rampant in our culture and even in the church.

Oh, BTW according to scripture the New Heaven and the New Earth are coming down not our in the sweet by and by. This earth like all of its inhabitants is going to be made new, that "God may be all in all!"

Good to hear from you my friend.

Performance?? Sorry but the Bible does talk about obediance as part of salvation. Revelation is also clear on that. God knows your passion.

Also I would say FAITH is a performance in itself.

crakjak 07-17-2008 09:55 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A_PoMo (Post 533254)
I'm not at the half century mark yet, but I've had to face the fears of mortality and eternal judgment that those of the Geritol and Centrum Silver crowd face. I was forced to examine this question seriously and honestly about three years ago when I was diagnosed with CHF. Living with CHF forces me to be honest about it on a day to day basis. Having searched the Scriptures I can say "Yes" I am absolutely sure of my eternal salvation.

Praise the Lord, that is as it should be, I don't believe our Heavenly Father leaves us in limbo, He affirms our inheritance.

crakjak 07-17-2008 09:57 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447 (Post 533283)
Performance?? Sorry but the Bible does talk about obediance as part of salvation. Revelation is also clear on that. God knows your passion.

Also I would say FAITH is a performance in itself.

Actually, I was not referencing any "steps" of salvation, I was referring to all the things Christians do to be acceptable to God.

Sister Alvear 07-17-2008 09:59 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
I feel sure of my salvation...no fears here...

Sam 07-17-2008 10:09 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
"I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day" 2 Tim 1:12

10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:10-13

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

crakjak 07-17-2008 10:13 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 534122)
"I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day" 2 Tim 1:12

10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:10-13

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24


Amen, Bro. Sam, great words of confidence and comfort to the believer, a great foundation to live out our purpose and to serve our generation in confident peace.

crakjak 07-17-2008 10:15 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 534117)
I feel sure of my salvation...no fears here...

Again, this is as it should be my sister, and friend!! God is trustworthy to do all He has promised to do, may His name be praised!

Sam 07-17-2008 11:06 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
One Saturday morning in September 1995, a little before 7:00, I was headed to the Vineyard for a prayer meeting. Two or three of us would meet there on Saturday mornings and pray for the church, the staff, their outreach, and the people who would be there that weekend. Some times we would go from room to room and pray. One Saturday each month we would lay hands on each seat in the auditorium, the instruments on the platform, and the speaker's podium and pray.

Well, I suddenly felt like I was in a vise from my throat down to my lower chest. It was intense pain and pressure. Perspiration started running down my back. I started praying. I wondered if I was having a heart attack. I wondered if I should try to drive to a hospital emergency room. I wondered if I should pull over in case I blacked out and my pickup truck might run into someone or something. I remember saying something like, "Well, Lord, I may be standing before You face to face any second now." I was at complete peace. There was no fear of dying and of going into the very presence of God. The pain subsided and I went on to the church. A few days later I went through some tests and it was determined that I had suffered a heart attack. I have looked back at that moment and have thanked God for the peace I felt and the complete absence of seeing Jesus face to face.

Sam 07-17-2008 11:09 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
THE SOLID ROCK

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.

When darkness veils His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace;
In every high and stormy gale,
My anchor holds within the veil.

His oath, His covenant, His blood
Support me in the whelming flood;
When all around my soul gives way,
He then is all my hope and stay.

When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in Him be found;
Dressed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.

Refrain:
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.

Sister Alvear 07-18-2008 08:57 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
I do my best to be a good christian however I fail many times...just glad for a 5 letter word..GRACE...if it were not for HIS GRACE we would all be consumed.

crakjak 07-18-2008 09:04 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 534181)
One Saturday morning in September 1995, a little before 7:00, I was headed to the Vineyard for a prayer meeting. Two or three of us would meet there on Saturday mornings and pray for the church, the staff, their outreach, and the people who would be there that weekend. Some times we would go from room to room and pray. One Saturday each month we would lay hands on each seat in the auditorium, the instruments on the platform, and the speaker's podium and pray.

Well, I suddenly felt like I was in a vise from my throat down to my lower chest. It was intense pain and pressure. Perspiration started running down my back. I started praying. I wondered if I was having a heart attack. I wondered if I should try to drive to a hospital emergency room. I wondered if I should pull over in case I blacked out and my pickup truck might run into someone or something. I remember saying something like, "Well, Lord, I may be standing before You face to face any second now." I was at complete peace. There was no fear of dying and of going into the very presence of God. The pain subsided and I went on to the church. A few days later I went through some tests and it was determined that I had suffered a heart attack. I have looked back at that moment and have thanked God for the peace I felt and the complete absence of seeing Jesus face to face.

Praise God, Sam, these are the type of responses that I was fishing for, I believe your post will encourage many others as they seek "...that passes all understanding!"

Falla39 07-18-2008 10:12 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 534185)
THE SOLID ROCK

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.

When darkness veils His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace;
In every high and stormy gale,
My anchor holds within the veil.

His oath, His covenant, His blood
Support me in the whelming flood;
When all around my soul gives way,
He then is all my hope and stay.

When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in Him be found;
Dressed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.

Refrain:
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.

Bro. Sam,

Oct. 22, 1989, we sat beside the bedside of our dying father
(Crakjak, and a few others were present also) and sang this entire
song together with confidence. I believe Dad heard us singing these
words and knew we would be okay. He had taught us WHO to stand
on. He knew we had the answer. He passed on a few hours later.
He would have been 90 yrs. old yesterday. His mother, Lizzie Blakey,
who I wrote a thread about being the first of our family to hear and
obey the apostolic message, would be 110 yrs.

Glory, glory, Hallelujah,
Glory, glory, Hallelujah,
Glory, glory, Hallelujah,
HIS TRUTH IS MARCHING ON!!:highfive:nod

One generation connecting to the next! The Spirit of the Living
God flowing in and through each.

Blessings,

Falla39

Timmy 07-18-2008 10:22 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
You may be confident now, but you cannot know for sure if you will stay saved till the end of your life. No one can. You probably know some people who knew that they knew that they knew they were saved forever -- until they backslid.

(And I won't even mention that you can't possibly be sure that you got all the steps figured out, with the 100% correct interpretation, and followed them all to the letter. Not when there are so many others who get different interpretations, all of them reasonable, and all of them sincere in their beliefs. No, I won't mention that! :winkgrin)

(And CJ, even you might be wrong! :tease)

BrotherEastman 07-18-2008 12:31 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 534185)
THE SOLID ROCK

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.

When darkness veils His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace;
In every high and stormy gale,
My anchor holds within the veil.

His oath, His covenant, His blood
Support me in the whelming flood;
When all around my soul gives way,
He then is all my hope and stay.

When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in Him be found;
Dressed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.

Refrain:
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.

One of my favorite songs Brother Sam.

LUKE2447 07-18-2008 12:50 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 534122)
"I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day" 2 Tim 1:12

10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:10-13

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

This is a continual action not a one time thing.

John 6:35-45
(as well as John 3:16) in Drawn by the Father: A Summary of
John 6:35-45 (Reformation Press: 1999) at 10-11:
Throughout this passage an important truth is
presented that again might be missed by many
English translations. When Jesus describes the
one who comes to him and who believes in
him [3:16, 5:24, 6:35, 37, 40, 47, etc.], he uses
the present tense to describe this coming,
believing, or, in other passages, hearing or seeing.
The present tense refers to a continuous,
on-going action. The Greek contrasts this kind
of action against the aorist tense, which is apoint action, a single action in time that is not
on-going.... The wonderful promises that are
provided by Christ are not for those who do
not truly and continuously believe. The faith
that saves is a living faith, a faith that always
looks to Christ as Lord and Savior. Id. at 10-11.

Thus

Mat 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

You can only be secure in the present tense of your faith or responsing to God.

Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

So one who lives by the Spirit(his leading) are walking in faith.

crakjak 07-18-2008 01:19 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 534492)
You may be confident now, but you cannot know for sure if you will stay saved till the end of your life. No one can. You probably know some people who knew that they knew that they knew they were saved forever -- until they backslid.

(And I won't even mention that you can't possibly be sure that you got all the steps figured out, with the 100% correct interpretation, and followed them all to the letter. Not when there are so many others who get different interpretations, all of them reasonable, and all of them sincere in their beliefs. No, I won't mention that! :winkgrin)

(And CJ, even you might be wrong! :tease)

Timmy,
I might be wrong in some areas of my understanding, however I am not wrong in whom I have believed. Therefore, I have confidence in Christ and the finished work of the cross.

How about you are you confident in your faith?

Timmy 07-18-2008 01:20 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 534670)
Timmy,
I might be wrong in some areas of my understanding, however I am not wrong in whom I have believed. Therefore, I have confidence in Christ and the finished work of the cross.

How about you are you confident in your faith?

Pretty confident! :woot

crakjak 07-18-2008 01:21 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 534673)
Pretty confident! :woot

Wonderful!!

A_PoMo 07-18-2008 03:31 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
G
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 534181)
One Saturday morning in September 1995, a little before 7:00, I was headed to the Vineyard for a prayer meeting. Two or three of us would meet there on Saturday mornings and pray for the church, the staff, their outreach, and the people who would be there that weekend. Some times we would go from room to room and pray. One Saturday each month we would lay hands on each seat in the auditorium, the instruments on the platform, and the speaker's podium and pray.

Well, I suddenly felt like I was in a vise from my throat down to my lower chest. It was intense pain and pressure. Perspiration started running down my back. I started praying. I wondered if I was having a heart attack. I wondered if I should try to drive to a hospital emergency room. I wondered if I should pull over in case I blacked out and my pickup truck might run into someone or something. I remember saying something like, "Well, Lord, I may be standing before You face to face any second now." I was at complete peace. There was no fear of dying and of going into the very presence of God. The pain subsided and I went on to the church. A few days later I went through some tests and it was determined that I had suffered a heart attack. I have looked back at that moment and have thanked God for the peace I felt and the complete absence of seeing Jesus face to face.

Great story Sam! I had a similar experience about four months ago when I had a panic attack. I'd never had one before (and none since, thank God) and at the height of the attack I thought I was having a heart attack or stroke and literally believed that I was going to die right there in my bathroom. I was absolutely certain that I was living my last moments on earth. At that moment I was sad that I'd not see my children grow up and that they'd be without their Dad. But at no time did I fear for my salvation. I didn't even think of it. That's because I know I'm going to heaven. A far cry for sure from when I was a kid and lived in mortal fear of going to hell. I could tell you some stories about that too. What a change! I've learned the the truth and the truth has set me free, free from fear.

(just in case anyone is wondering. No, I did not die.) :)

crakjak 07-19-2008 11:11 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A_PoMo (Post 534916)
G

Great story Sam! I had a similar experience about four months ago when I had a panic attack. I'd never had one before (and none since, thank God) and at the height of the attack I thought I was having a heart attack or stroke and literally believed that I was going to die right there in my bathroom. I was absolutely certain that I was living my last moments on earth. At that moment I was sad that I'd not see my children grow up and that they'd be without their Dad. But at no time did I fear for my salvation. I didn't even think of it. That's because I know I'm going to heaven. A far cry for sure from when I was a kid and lived in mortal fear of going to hell. I could tell you some stories about that too. What a change! I've learned the the truth and the truth has set me free, free from fear.

(just in case anyone is wondering. No, I did not die.) :)

That's good, and so is your post!

Timmy 07-20-2008 07:49 AM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 534676)
Wonderful!!

But I could be wrong. ;)

Why is it that so few OPs will admit that they are not 100% sure of their salvation? (I'm not sure I've seen any, actually.) Nobody (very few, anyway) think they understand everything perfectly, every single doctrine from creation to eschatology. They may agree that there are some doctrines that they could be wrong about, or are off somewhat on this or that detail, but salvation? Nope. They know they're 100% right about that!

But really: how is it possible for there to be, I dunno, 100 or more Biblical doctrines, and only the relatively unimportant ones are held with some uncertainty, but there is 1 that they know that they know that they know they have 100% right? And all those other folks who have a different, mutually exclusive, view? Well, they're wrong, sadly.

Makes no sense.

Or maybe it does. After all, if anyone admits they might have that one wrong, they would be terrified. Nobody wants to be filled with fear.

Sam 07-20-2008 12:54 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy (Post 537006)
But I could be wrong. ;)

Why is it that so few OPs will admit that they are not 100% sure of their salvation? (I'm not sure I've seen any, actually.)
...

In my opinion, salvation is a gift to receive, not a goal to achieve.

Jesus said (if we believe Him) that He would not reject anyone who comes to Him. That's found in John 6:37. Jesus said that our salvation is based on believing in Him (ref John 3:14-18; 5:24). And the verses in 1 John 5:10-13 reiterate that we can know that we have eternal life if we believe in Jesus.

Problems come when it just seems to us that we should do something to earn our salvation. Just believing in Jesus and trusting our salvation to Him is too simple for human (carnal) reasoning.

People have developed and are preaching a "performance based salvation" and have come up with many conflicting rules and interpretations. Salvation depends on whether we meticulously follow all the rules but nobody can agree on what the rules are. If our salvation depends on blindly following every whim and rule of a pastor, and those pastors don't even agree among themselves, there is always a question as to whether we've done enough or if we've missed some rule somewhere that we haven't even heard about.

Take some time to read the third and fourth chapters of Hebrews. It speaks of a sabbath rest --a time to cease from works and just rest in Who Jesus is and what He has done.

mizpeh 07-20-2008 01:02 PM

Re: Are You Totally Confident of Your Salvation?
 
I'm confident because I know who saved me.


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