The "Not Drunk" deception
 

What say ye?

The Pentecostals for years have tried to point to the "These are not drunk as ye suppose" statement to give some kind of credence to their acting drunk in church.....

Read the whole story in cotext and heres my challenge show me ONE REFERENCE where they were talking about these peoples worship... you know what never mind.. Ill do it for you

CONTEXT a beautiful thing
Acts 2:6 - Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Why were they confounded or confused?

# 1 Because they saw people shouting all over the place.....
# 2 Because they saw people running and screaming
# 3 Because common people had broken the language barrier

BINGO #3

Now, moving right along

Acts 2:7 - And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Why were the amazed and bewlidered and counfounded?

# 1 - The heard people laughing in the Spirit all over the place
# 2 - They saw folks leaping for joy
# 3 - Because common folks broke the language barrier

BINGO #3

Moving right along

OK HERES THE QUESTION

Acts 2:8 -And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

So what is the subject of the conversation or the question they are asking?

# 1 - Why are these people so happy
# 2 - Why are these folks dancing and shouting all over the place
# 3 - How do common folks speak in our languages

BINGO - #3

CONTEXT BREAK -- So far what is the subject at hand? TONGUES...... do you see any reference to Praise or Worship?

Great, moving right along

We skip verse 9,10 & 11 because it is just listing all the languages they heard them speaking in

So we pick up at verse 12 to find the CONTEXT,., whether it be worship and shouting or whether it be something else..... the PENTECOSTALS desperatly need for it to be worship and shouting

Acts 2:12 - And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Question- What were they amazed at?

# 1 - Peoples ability to shout and not get hurt?
# 2 - Peoples ability to dance uncontrollably
# 3 - Peoples ability to speak in foreign languages

BINGo # 3 - They are wanting to know all about this ability to break the language barrier and here they are trying to figure out where this new ability has come from.. they marvelled, they were amazed

and with this context in mind... we come to the next scripture

Acts 2:13 - Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

WHY DID THEY ACCUSE THEM OF DRINKING NEW WINE?

With all of the above scriptures taken in context please answer the following questions

#1 - because they saw them acting drunk
#2 - because they saw them shouting
#3 - because they heard them break the language barrier

BINGO # 3 --- had NOTHING TO DO WITH Pentecostal emotionalism

Acts 2:15 - For these are not drunken, as ye suppose

No sir,,, they didn't get this ability from a new wine... they got this ability from on high..... as prophesied by Joel... God said he would speak to his people with stammering lips and foreign lanagues.. and this is what you are seeing


So help me OLDPATHS... did you see a PENTECOSTAL service happening anywhere in the study of context?

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

My point exactly.... more like a hundred time... but I am being told in another thread "Why did Peter say these are not drunk" if there was no shouting going on.. so I tell the poster.. we've already established the fact.. it did not happen like that.. they say we never established the fact.. so Im re-establishing

It was actually St.Mark who says.... we never proved anything.. just my opinions... so I thought we would try again to see if this is just my opinion or if it is not the clear teaching of the Context

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

What I find interesting is that people always assume the "these men" is referring to the people speaking in tongues. The ones who were acting like they were off their rocker were the ones saying they could hear them (those speaking in tongues) in their native language. Each man that heard the group speaking heard the entire group speaking in his native language. If you were part of a group that heard them speaking in your own native tongue you'd tell anyone else who said they (the ones speaking in tongues) were talking in their (the ones hearing a different language) native language that they were nuts or maybe drunk.

I can see it now: "Them guys are speaking in Parthian." "They are not either. They're speaking in Pamphylian!" "You're both wrong! They're speaking in Egyptian!" "What?!?! You guys are all crazy and probly drunk out of your minds!" Peter interrupts and tells them all, "Hey! No one is drunk. It's only 9am. What's going on here is what the prophet Joel spoke about, yada, yada."

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

but I thought you guys believed... .these are not drunk was concerning people shouting and dancing and jerking and such as that.. when did that change.. yall have preached it for years

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Oh absolutely just like Saul persecuted the church for years.. thanks God it's not held against us

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Brother, why are you judging others expressions of joy and praise?

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

so you have grown up and become to mature to dance a good ole David jig in church. Thats nice, now get over the fact that we are not as old and mature as you and leave us to our David jigs while you and his wife stand by the window and criticize us. Your womb may be shut up like hers in the process.

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

LOL,,, I love it,.. people who still believe she was laughing and angry at his worship..... sheesh the Pentecostal will do anything prove they can shout if they want to.....

As has already been settled before.. she was not angry at his worship.. she was jealous and furious because had disrobed in front of the other women, he had left his royal robes and slipped into priestly robes.. she was FURIOUS not at his worship... David had been worshipping all of his life.. his wife had seen him worship countless times..... COME ON FOLKS.. you really believe God shut her womb because she had matured to the place she couldnt SHOUT NO MORE...... oh man

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

I'll preach the gospel in a hogs pen..... I just wont become a Hog

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Isn't there something about casting pearls before swine?

Okay allow me to be very pointed here. No mistake wanted on this one.
I am saying that I think arguing with you is like throwing pearls before swine. If that is not acceptable than fine do what you all must. I have abstained from conversations with you because I believe this very STRONGLY. I always have to go with my prayer instinct. Unfortunately I gave into a moment of weakness on this one.

ironic to me that you would actually use the words pig pen and hog when I feel the way I do about discussing Bible with you. And that from just reading the things others have said with you and your responses to them.

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

That is what I was gonna say and as I recall he kept ignoring my points then getting mad when I kept bumping them up and pointing out he was ignoring them. He later then claimed I was being mean or something.

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

First of all we don't say we should ACT drunk.

Pentecostals don't say this was a reference to their worship. They say it was a reference to the effect of the Spirit on them.

I don't think Any Pentecostal says they were confounded because they saw people running and screaming. And if I saw people running I would not consider them drunk. Drunks don't run very well.

Strawman. OPs don't say they were amazed because of the first 2

We all know the context.

Yes I do see a reference to praise and Worship in the very verses in you skipped

Act 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?
Act 2:9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome,
Act 2:11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians--we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God." <--That is PRAISE

No uh "WE" Pentecostals do not disparately need for it to be anything. A sweeping generalization. A Strawman argument and prejudicial language.

Pentecostals will agree they were amazed because they heard them speaking in their language. Again the "Dr" operates in logical fallacies. And it seems odd that on the other hand he tries to speak favorably of Pentecostals...Oh he has family. Oh he still preaches for them...yet as you will later see we are all pigs according to him

I have to ask, what about being drunk makes someone speak in a language they did not understand?

This was not a service at all. It was them being filled with the Spirit. Question, what were they doing leading up to receiving the Spirit. Eating lunch? Drinking Tea? Chatting with each other? Praying?

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Sweeping Generalization again by the "Dr". You'd think with his education he would know better.

Dr. Nobody knows HOW they were behaving other than the tongues. You can't say they weren't laughing. You can't say any of them were not rejoicing. You just don't know

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Contradictory isn't it?

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

It's amazing. This man will moan later on how he never said anything to us or about us and then when the people here reciprocate to his posting style he just complains.

That she was jealous, if that is the case (ironic considering that David had several wives and concubines) is irrelevant. He was worshiping the LORD by dancing...something you call just emotionalism and ridicule Pentecostals over

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

[QUOTE=Praxeas;536184]First of all we don't say we should ACT drunk.


Pentecostals don't say this was a reference to their worship. They say it was a reference to the effect of the Spirit on them.

MY RESPONSE: Wrong.. go to campmeeting or Sunday night service right in the middle of the pandamoneum with a few folks in the floor some do the head bang and watch a preacher grab the MIC "THESE ARE NOT DRUNK AS YE SUPPOSE' now tell me again the Pentecostal don't reference this in their worship... even you know better

I don't think Any Pentecostal says they were confounded because they saw people running and screaming. And if I saw people running I would not consider them drunk. Drunks don't run very well.


Strawman. OPs don't say they were amazed because of the first 2


We all know the context.


Yes I do see a reference to praise and Worship in the very verses in you skipped


Act 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?
Act 2:9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome,
Act 2:11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians--we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God." <--That is PRAISE

TELLING IS PRAISE????????? Pray tell... lets read it again.... the purpose of this outpouring was evangelization, even you cant argue with that... so if we have a purpose of Evangalization... and we have people TELLING about GOD ... NOW REMEMBER.. I thought PRAISE & WORSHIP was TO GOD.... but these folks are telling folks ABOUT GOD...... so would you mind once again telling us HOW you get PRAISE OUT OF THIS?

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

[quote=Dr. Vaughn;536226]Again that is the effect of the Spirit ON those people. Worship is us going upward. In the case you are saying they are talking about people being affected by the Spirit. Second my point is NOT all Pentecostals would say this. That is a sweeping Generalization



YES! Telling others about God's mighty works is PRAISE.

Second they were NOT telling the others, they were just telling or saying or speaking in tongues about the Mighty works of God...yes if I say "God is awesome, He is the creator of all things" That is praise!

Act 2:11 Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking the great things of God in our own languages.

They were praising God in tongues

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

It is clearly your opinion, but any post more than 5 feet long, I avoid! So I didn't read the previous one, but if I remember correctly, in the other thread I only asked you to explain it, not to prove if that meant there was shouting going on! And I will not dispute with you if you say that the Bible says that they were not acting drunk becuase thats going against scripture!

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

I know one thing.. I'm not gonna start a Pentecostal denomination out of what I dont know happened and say it did happen to give my movement some type of credence.. now THATs what I do know.. you guys always argue that you cant debate from SILENCE and here you go,, doing the very thing you vehmetly oppose

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

but NOTHING LIKE SHOUTING AND JERKING AND SQUEALING... go to Jerusalem.. i go twice a year... you will see their dancing is very controlled it looks NOTHING LIKE PENTECOST... and yet you try to lay claim to David to endorse your out of control jerking and squealing... it just wont work

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

And God turned his back on the Jews, yet you use them as an example?

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Pentecost was not started based on that. It was started based on what was written about the outpouring and tongues. I was not making an argument from silence. I was pointing out YOU keep making assertions that the text does not support

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

You got to be kidding... he turned his back on the Jews? Study prophecy he is anxiously WAITING for the JEWS.... he temporarily for the gentiles sake did what he had to do.. but his heart longs for the Jews.. and they will soon turn to him

In the meantime... they were the original worshippers that he adored.. so yeah.. I'm pretty confident in that

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

I don't know anything about squealing. Another Sweeping Generalization. BTW I have seen Jews dance and I have seen them rocking back and forth and walking like ducks at the wailing wall.

SHOUT UNTO THE LORD WITH THE VOICE OF TRUIMPH!

REJOICE IN THE LORD. AGAIN I SAY REJOICE.

BTW does anyone else notice the Dr attempt again to slander us as pigs? Squealing?

Also the Dr puts words in my mouth. I did not claim David did anything but dance. Is this the best you can do sir? OINK! You ever tell your family they are pigs?

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Such as?

What did I say that the TEXT DOES NOT SUPPORT?

give me the list....

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

You are asserting they did NOT do anything other than speak in tongues. No dancing, laughing, jumping etc etc..nothing that supposedly happens in all Pentecostal services and we ALL preach.

OINK!

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

PRAX are you seriously gonna use

SHOUT UNTO THE LORD WITH YOU VOICE as scriptural support of PENTECOSTAL SHOUTING?

You know what.. I'll just leave that one alone.... bye the way the key word in that scripture starts with a V

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Here is what you Pentecostals are according to Dr Vaughn
http://www.easternapiculture.org/pro...e/2006/hog.jpg

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

and you are saying these things DID HAPPEN.. you are saying it from SILENCE

I'm saying they didnt happen from scripture.. where there is NO MENTIOn of any such thing and yet PENTECOST always uses the DAY OF PENTECOST to justify SHOUTING AND ACTING DRUNK

come on even you know its the truth

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

What is wrong with shouting? Yes they shouted in the bible.

Psa 5:11 But let all who put their trust in You rejoice; let them always shout for joy, because You defend them. And let those who love Your name be joyful in You.
Psa 32:11 Be glad in Jehovah, and rejoice, you righteous; and shout for joy, all you upright in heart.
Psa 47:1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm for the sons of Korah. Clap your hand, all you peoples; shout to God with the voice of triumph.
Psa 81:1 To the Chief Musician. On Gittith, A Psalm of Asaph. Sing aloud to God our strength; shout for joy to the God of Jacob.
Psa 132:9 Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness, and Your saints shout for joy.

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

YOU are saying they did not happen simply because it was not mentioned. Im saying that is not proof they did not happen.

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

:bored

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

PRAX you are waaay to smart for that? Why would you defeat your own argument? You say that Pentecostal Shouting is in the Bible.. and you and i both know what we mean when we say Pentecostal SHOUTING... and your gonna bring out verses that all have to do with raising ones voice?

I can't even believe you went there.. now show me one where theres some PENTECOSTAL SHOUTING going on

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Oh ok,, well they might been selling peanut brittle too.. since were gonna imagine from silence what they were doing

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

Dr Vaughn, I agree scripture does not support uncontrolled and disorderly or out-of-control "worship".

As Prax has said it still may have occurred - the fact is we don't know for sure.

I tend to think there certainly must be limits to all happenings in an assembly, considering Paul's strong admonition of considering the unbeliever who is among us. Therefore the oft used "worship" is always in order, regardless of it's appearance - cannot be true. The same goes for speaking in tongues.

Re: The "Not Drunk" deception
 

We agree wholeheartedly... these people misunderstand me.. in church I rejoice.. i worship,,, I sing aloud.. I cry,, I pray.... I worship God but I firmly stand against the fleshism that takes over.. while everyone stands and watches somebody shout... talk about Idolatry,, focusing on shows of flesh was never in Gods plan... your post was enjoyable