Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

This is a serious ethical question...and am asking for advice.

This morning when I opened my email, and received an email from someone. In this email are pictures of a current licensed minister (will not say what organization) dancing and drinking and another picture flipping off a camera.

It is easy to say, TURN THEM IN....but at the same time you are talking about the lives of some people. This is not the situation with me...but I want you to approach the answer to this question as if it was a good friend of yours.

What would you do?

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Why were you sent these pics & who sent them?


BTW Socali good to see you posting!

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

If it was a good friend, I would show him the pictures and see what he had to say about it. If he acted as though he didn't care, I would tell him to approach his DS or I would, with the pictures.

He is supposed to be shepherding a church, if he cares that little about them, then he needs to turn in his license.

On the other hand, if he appears to be repentive - could you ever trust him again? Tough deal.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

My immediate answer would be to directly give this information to whoever this preacher answers to, I say directly because unless you have an assured private email address, that could be risky and you would not want this to get into any more hands than completely necessary.

Second option is to contact the preacher directly and give him the opportunity to go to his leader directly, and make things right himself.

The main thing I would do is to have some serious prayer time first to try and get direction from God on the matter.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I think person was appauled. If it is making its round in the email world....the pastor of his church will probably be given it.

Someone really acquainted to the individual sent it to another person who sent it to me to see if they were "doctored". They aren't doctored.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Talk to the minister in the picture, before you post about it or talk about it with anyone else or "turn them in".

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I hope you have good eyes.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I certainly can't give you advice on something like that. You need someone a lot smarter than I am.

There are so many questions:
1. are the pictures genuine or altered?
2. is this something from the past (if so, how long ago) or current?
3. is it possible this was a slip up, a temporary lapse, and the person has since repented?
4. how credible is your source, and what is his/her motivation for sending them to you?
5. how does Proverbs 26:20 about a talebearer apply to the sender and to you?
6. Does "covering" a multitude of sin apply? ref 1 Peter 4:8
7. could this be an assignment for you to cover that person in prayer and let God reveal it in His own time?

for starters

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Go to them first ..

Then 2 witnesses ...

Give them a chance to fix this.

Then up the ladder.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I totally agree with DA's post and the scripture he refers to in the post!

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

SoCal, these scriptures aren't specifically dealing with a minister, but I think they offer some direction for the situation you find yourself in.



Matt 18:15-17 (KJV)
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I'd hold off on doing anything. Pictures sent to you will probably be sent to others also. Someone else will pull the plug on this.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I am not sending them on. I've heard things about this person in the past and from what I have been told, it was always denied. This is a recent pic. I am going to be in much prayer. Even though I barely know this person...other than meeting them on one or two occassions...I will probably approach them and see if they will make it right.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Is he known as a conservative, moderate or liberal?

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

If these pictures were sent to others email or snail mail then the damage is already done..

How do we know these pictures are current?

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Does it matter?

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I'm curious.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I think it is appalling that it is making the rounds (no fault on you) & somebody somewhere is going to recognize him and they will either approach him (best option) or his superior (Pastor, DS, Presbyter) & the jig will be up.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I think I would only pray at the moment...I will join you in prayer...in much prayer.
SoCaliUPC remember someone may wanting to use you to get their dirty work done...even if the pictures are true.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

This is more likely to happen.

It's just one of those things where it is like....I have a serious dilemna on my hands on what do I do?

I've even thought of going to one of the other ministers in their church (who I know) and give it to him. But....I am just going to seriously pray about it (and I don't say that as a cliche.)

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I will only answer this question like this.

If you are a conservative a moderate or a liberal....if you preach against something you better live by it. I know people who do not think TV is wrong and they do not preach against it. I would have a problem with them if they did. It is like a preacher out of our section one time who spent a whole message to the youth about the evils of going to a baseball game and what a sin it was...only for myself to be at a baseball game the next day and who comes walking down the stairs next to us? Said preacher.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Good idea.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Do as I say & not as I do?

I hear ya.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

:ursofunny

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Well, I could argue that none of these things this guy has done are necessarily sinful, even if they're unwise and in poor taste. But I realize that many 'sins' are contextual and cultural and in the context and culture of the UPC that they are considered sin so you gotta deal with that reality.

If I barely knew the guy I'd certainly not be so presumptous as to approach him in person. You prob have little credibility with the guy and the person who approaches him must do so in a spirit of brotherhood, which assumes some sort of prior relationship of some intimacy and mutual respect or at the very least some sort of authority. Otherwise he'll most likely be defensive and may make you a target.

I too wonder why you were sent these photos, especially if you barely know him and don't attend his church. Isn't that just smutty high tech gossip? If you're gonna nail this dude I'd certainly be consistent and nail the person spreading the gossip as a gossiper and talebearer. The Bible has plenty to say about those sins that divide the fellowship of brethren. In my view, this sin is much more serious than drinking, dancing, and flipping a bird. But I won't hold my breath that somebody will actually attempt to hold this gossiper accountable for their sin.

With all that said, I'd also consider that maybe this guys was in some sort of spiritual/emotional valley and it was a momentary lapse of judgement on his part. Certainly all of us in the ministry have been there more than once. It goes with the territory and we all have warts. According to XXXChurch most ministers would be in big trouble if the browser history on their computer were published for all to see. I know of a UPC minister recently who was in severe depression due to some personal attacks on his character by another UPC minister and he lapsed back into hold habits of drinking for a short time until he, through prayer and grace, was able to find his center again. He wasn't ever a bad guy, he was just flat on his back in the ring. He took the standing eight count, got back up, and is still fighting the good fight. He's a good guy and it would have been a shame for some, even well meaning, fellow ministers to 'expose' him like that and ruin his reputation. The kingdom is better off with this guy ministering in it, rather than having his character and credibility assasinated by his fellow comrades. Only barbarians kill their own wounded.

This sort of thing doesn't necessarily mean the guy is flawed in his character. Don't assume the worst. That's what they gossiper wants you to think. Be bigger than that and assume the best of the guy and try to help him if you can. If he has bad character then that'll become obvious. If not, maybe he just needs some respect and love from his fellow ministers who are interested in doing what Paul told us to do and that is to do this sort of thing with humility and love and always with the goal of restoration.

JMO.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

A POMO...

I am not into taking this guy down. It is a severe uneasiness. That is why I asked in the very first post, consider it to be a friend of yours and answer from that standpoint...knowing the position they are in.

I am leaving some details out. I am acquainted with the individual and am being very vague. (BTW...the person is NOT STMARK!!!!!! LOL!) There is some complicated circumstances that I am not getting in to. I just want to do the right thing....in an ethical manner...whether that be be silent to talking to an elder. I am in serious prayer.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

If you're a good friend and have a solid relationship then I'd say you have the right, and even the duty, to talk to him as a friend and in love and humility. If your friends can't talk to you then who can? That's part of what true friends are for isn't it?

I appreciate that you're being vague and leaving out details. That's the honorable thing to do.

I'm still bothered though about someone emailing this stuff to you, assuming of course that you're not in a position to do something about it. If you have some influence in the person's life then maybe it's appropriate to show you the photos. I thought you said you'd only met him a couple of times. I must have misunderstood.

You're in a tough position. I hope you find the way of wisdom and loving mercy.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

This would be my advice too!

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I think the worst thing that can be done is that this would be kept secret. It does the person no favors, nor is is a good thing for his family, or his ministry. Going to him might seem like a good idea, but he probably wont want the information passed on to someone he is accountable to. But if he's in a bad place spiritually, keeping this hidden would just serve to enable and facilitate his sin... and obviously there could be serious eternal consequences.

Obviously I would say pray and make sure you feel like God is with you in whatever you decide to do; but just based on biblical principle, I would pass the information on to his pastor or whoever he is immediately spiritually accountable to. At that point you have done the best you could do, under God. At that point just continue keep the situation in prayer, and leave it in God's hands.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I wasn't me........er...a..maybe........:whistle

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

the Bible says your sins will find you out, someway or somehow it will be known, but i would approach him and tell him why he is doing this,
and i would not pass the information down to no man, accept the preacher above him, . be in much prayer, you might even have to fast

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I think Sam's list is certainly a good starter!!! Do nothing in haste.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

i do much agree-- very wise

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

From what I read on another thread yesterday, since it isn't the original photo but a emailed copy, you are ok to post it here on AFF. You see, yesterday, someone posted from a blog, something that originated in a private forum, but most said here that a blog is public so it is ok to post here, using that logic, please post the pic!!!!!





TIC:whistle

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Did you say something? :tease

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Jesus would tell us through his word to go to our brother in private first. If your speaking the truth in love causes your brother to repent then you need to leave it at that.

Going to tattle only causes strife and the man will resent you for life when his license is pulled.

Pray and address in private is my thoughts and God's way.

Blessings, Rhoni

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Get this off the public forum!!!!!!!!! WWJD

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

In fact Jesus wouldn't spend as much as I do here.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

I don't know who you are so I don't know if you are in some sort of leadership position in your area, but I think that often who we tell or show something is a bigger indicator of our motives than what we actually say. It is apparent that your motives are right because you only seem interested in sharing with the appropriate people who can actually do something to affect the situation. I'm not sure what the people's motives are who are just disseminating to the general public.
That being said though, I do know the frustration that can come with working with a minister or leader who is infamous for going out and doing crazy things like that. If it has actually been somewhat known for a while, I can see some people responding now to the actual evidence.

Re: Serious Ethical Question....What would you do?
 

Shoot Me a PM!!!!!

Pour me a cup !!!!! :ursofunny