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Arphaxad 07-19-2008 02:46 PM
crimes before conversion
 
Suppose someone got away with some crime before they were saved. Should they make restitution for it now. or if it was seriose enough to involve incarceration, should they turn themselves in?

ARPH:doggyrun

1Corinth2v4 07-19-2008 02:48 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arphaxad (Post 536310)
Suppose someone got away with some crime before they were saved. Should they make restitution for it now. or if it was seriose enough to involve incarceration, should they turn themselves in?

ARPH:doggyrun
You're a new creature in Christ Jesus, old things have past, behold all things are new.


I hope you or someone else didn't murder someone though.

Rico 07-19-2008 02:51 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arphaxad (Post 536310)
Suppose someone got away with some crime before they were saved. Should they make restitution for it now. or if it was seriose enough to involve incarceration, should they turn themselves in?

ARPH:doggyrun
Why? What'd ya do?




































:D

Ron 07-19-2008 02:53 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arphaxad (Post 536310)
Suppose someone got away with some crime before they were saved. Should they make restitution for it now. or if it was seriose enough to involve incarceration, should they turn themselves in?

ARPH:doggyrun
Only if they find where the bodies are buried!:D

Seriously, I did things before I came to God that to the best of my ability I tried to make right.

I found mercy in doing so.

RandyWayne 07-19-2008 04:05 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
There is a story of a young guy who killed his girlfriend and covered it up so well that the police didn't have a clue -they thought it was a suicide.

Then he "made the mistake" of seeing The Passion when it came out.

.....and a week (or two) later turned himself in.

Ron 07-19-2008 04:06 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 536397)
There is a story of a young guy who killed his girlfriend and covered it up so well that the police didn't have a clue -they thought it was a suicide.

Then he "made the mistake" of seeing The Passion when it came out.

.....and a week (or two) later turned himself in.
Good mistake!

RandyWayne 07-19-2008 04:08 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron (Post 536400)
Good mistake!
My thought exactly. I am sure he is much more at peace now than had he just kept quiet and gotten away with it.

TRFrance 07-19-2008 04:17 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
There was a news story a couple of years ago concerning an Apostolic pastor who had shot and killed someone in a robbery before he got saved. The cops tracked him down many years later and arrested him.

(As far as his side of the story...he said he never knew someone got shot and/or killed, but that he fired a shot and ran when the robbery went bad.)

He received a lighter than normal sentence, but he still got sentenced to several years in prison.

ReformedDave 07-19-2008 04:45 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
And he should have. Receiving forgiveness of sin is different from retribution to society.

Cindy 07-19-2008 05:48 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Consequences, I believe we are told in scripture to pay restitution if possible. If that means time in jail, so be it.

rrford 07-19-2008 07:19 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
There are five elements if genuine repentance:

1.Recognition of sin: Matthew 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Mark 2:17 “When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

2. Confession of sin: Proverbs 28:13 "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.” I John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

3. Contrition for sin: Psalm 51:17 “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.” II Corinthians 7:10 “For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”

4. Decision to forsake sin: Proverbs 28:13 "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.”

5. Restitution - attempt to remedy the damage done to others. "Matthew 5:23-24 [I]“Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.”

pelathais 07-19-2008 07:29 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arphaxad (Post 536310)
Suppose someone got away with some crime before they were saved. Should they make restitution for it now. or if it was seriose enough to involve incarceration, should they turn themselves in?

ARPH:doggyrun
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4 (Post 536314)
You're a new creature in Christ Jesus, old things have past, behold all things are new.


I hope you or someone else didn't murder someone though.
Not many people know this but before he was saved, 1Corinth2v1 was the guy he used scotch tape to prevent the outside security door at the Watergate office complex from latching.

pelathais 07-19-2008 07:30 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford (Post 536611)
There are five elements if genuine repentance:

1.Recognition of sin: Matthew 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Mark 2:17 “When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

2. Confession of sin: Proverbs 28:13 "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.” I John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

3. Contrition for sin: Psalm 51:17 “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.” II Corinthians 7:10 “For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”

4. Decision to forsake sin: Proverbs 28:13 "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.”

5. Restitution - attempt to remedy the damage done to others. "Matthew 5:23-24 “Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.” Luke 19:8 “And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.”
Step One has Five Steps itself? Who then can be saved?

Cindy 07-19-2008 07:31 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford (Post 536611)
There are five elements if genuine repentance:

1.Recognition of sin: Matthew 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Mark 2:17 “When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

2. Confession of sin: Proverbs 28:13 "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.” I John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

3. Contrition for sin: Psalm 51:17 “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.” II Corinthians 7:10 “For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”

4. Decision to forsake sin: Proverbs 28:13 "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.”

5. Restitution - attempt to remedy the damage done to others. "Matthew 5:23-24 “Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.” Luke 19:8 “And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.”

There it is, thanks Brother Ford.
When I was little and stole some candy or something, my Mom made me go to the store owner and not just pay for it, but look him in the eye and apologize. That was one of the hardest things I have had to do in my life.

rrford 07-19-2008 07:41 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 536621)
Step One has Five Steps itself? Who then can be saved?
???

Cindy 07-19-2008 07:42 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford (Post 536637)
???
His mind ain't right, you have to just overlook that.:crazy :tease

1Corinth2v4 07-19-2008 07:43 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford (Post 536637)
???
Ford,


I hear you're from TX? Does Mike Black ring a bell?

rrford 07-19-2008 07:45 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4 (Post 536647)
Ford,


I hear you're from TX? Does Mike Black ring a bell?
Yes.

1Corinth2v4 07-19-2008 07:52 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford (Post 536650)
Yes.
How's he doing? I haven't heard from him in years. Last time we spoke was at a convention here in California.

pelathais 07-19-2008 07:55 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford (Post 536637)
???
I was being silly, sorry. Many people look at "repentance" as "Step One" of a three step process to fulfill Acts 2:38. Your examination of "Repentance" involded a 5 point list, hence my "5 Steps to Step One..." statement.

To understand a thing it is useful to break it down into its component parts. And for repentance, you did that very well.

Brad Murphy 07-19-2008 07:56 PM
Re: crimes before conversion
 
So to recap, there is step 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 1e, step 2, step 3, and the addendum with all of the holiness standards, expanded understanding of oneness (beyond accepting that Jesus is God), proper eschatology, etc.... :D


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