This Shocked Me - JTS to allow gays
 

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...inary-Gays.php

Conservative NYC Jewish seminary decides to accept gay students
The Associated PressPublished: March 27, 2007

NEW YORK: A conservative Jewish seminary announced that it had decided to accept gay and lesbian students into its rabbinical and cantorial schools, a move that could be as controversial as the decision to admit women to study to become rabbis 25 years ago.

The Jewish Theological Seminary in Manhattan made the decision after three months of debating the issue, the school announced Monday in a statement on its Web site.

"Convictions and feelings are strong on both sides," wrote Chancellor-elect Arnold M. Eisen in a letter to the seminary community posted on its Web site. "Some will cheer this decision as justice long overdue. Others will condemn it as a departure from Jewish law and age-old Jewish custom."

Rabbi Joel Roth of the Jewish Theological Seminary told WABC-TV that Jewish law forbids homosexual acts. "To have rabbis who reflect something that Jewish law forbids is almost an oxymoron," Roth told the TV station. "And it is on those grounds that I oppose the ordination of gay rabbis."

But seminary students told WABC-TV that they were in support of the decision. "Jewish law has never stood still," said Elizabeth Richman. "And we know from looking at our history that even things that it says in the Bible, Jewish tradition has changed according to its own legal traditions. We're confident that the conservative movement has found a way according to Jewish tradition to make changes."

The decision was effective immediately, the seminary announced.

Founded in 1886, the Jewish Theological Seminary is a major school for the teaching of rabbis in the Morningside Heights neighborhood of Manhattan.

Thank God that the types and shadows of the OT.were fulfilled in the new.
Judaism is a false religion so this isn't so surprizing.Without the Holy Ghost people will accept anything.

Do you mean some forms of modern judaism ... are false ... because last I checked Jesus was a Jew.

Being a New Yorker ... and having studied at Queens College which was filled w/ Conservative Jews and then at Touro College, a school run by Conservative Jews and Orthodox Jews, I find this surprising ... in some ways.

I'd expect this from the Reformed Jews. However, in New York anything is possible.

I mean the ceremonial law,but look in the genealogy of Christ you find gentiles.Also if you deny the divinity of Christ how can one be saved?
Judaism and NT. Christianity are not the same thing.

All forms of it are false unless they come by through the New convenant. Jesus being a jew doesnt mean that Judaism is correct today. Different dispensation then.

Im not a dispensationalist ... in the manner that you are ... I think it's a different covenant ... some God-fearing Jews are living under that covenant and it is still valid in God's eyes .... there are some they have recognize the better covenant and Jesus as the Chosen One, the Messiah.

I agree,why did the Jews in Paul's day fight him so hard,because what he taught tore up their belief system.The Talmud I understand isn't too kind towards Jesus Christ and his divinity.
Of course all people can become one in Christ.

As I understand it this is a conservative although not orthodox school. That I think is why it surprised me.

I am not surprised at all. Seeing how things are going in the world, it is a whole lot more messed up then most of us realize.

The fact that Jesus "was a Jew" offers no support to Judaism, which is formed more on tradition and human translation of scripture than scripture itself. Jesus totally upset their religion, and revealed it for what it was...faulty, manmade, and pharisaical in nature.

Jesus was a law abiding Jew ... He do not come to do away w/ it but to fulfill it ... He did not quarrel w/ the Torah ... he quarreled w/ those would interpret the Torah ... in the manner the Pharisees did ...

He attended synagogue/temple .... as did Jewish Apostles even after their conversion ... or do you think they simply attended to cause trouble ... they would go according to the bible ... TO WORSHIP

God made some serious and binding promises to Abraham about his sons .... some for perpetuity.

For us as gentiles ... to sit here and decide if some are in false religion or if some are saved is OUTRIGHT RIDICULOUS.

We have been grafted into the VINE ... they weren't excessed.

God is dealing differently w/ them ... we would best live according to this better covenant ...

Which is exactly what the seminary in the article has done...they have interpreted with human philosophies and logic rather than godly principles and laws, so why are all your posts on this thread reading like knee-jerk reactions rather than a response to the actual topic and original article????

And if ye be Christ's ,then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.GAL.3:29 So whoever is in Christ is Abraham's seed.
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.He saith not ,And to seeds as of many,And to thy seed which is Christ.GAL.3:16

I agree .... with you Miss Brattfield ... this is against God's Laws .....

but this does not apply to the whole of the Jewish people ... it's one radical outpost in the heart of den of evil ... NYC.

I am responding to notion however that somehow aspects of Judaism are false and no longer part of God's plans .....

Many of the Jewish Apostles were Christians who kept many of the ceremonial laws ... and although Paul did not bind gentiles to such practices ... he kept them.

Acts 21:

17And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.

18And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

Judaism today is a False Religion based on Mysticism
 

Scott and Miss Bratt - I have been saying this for years and cannot believe that so many "Apostolics" have been caught up in the acceptance of the Jews as "God's Chosen People". They were once - but GOD DIVORCED THEM! They are NOT SAVED. They are Ungodly for the most part and even the most orthodox among them are totally perverted. When you start talking with them and reading and studying them - they are twisted and perverted. The Rabbi's of today are no more than fortune tellers - witchcraft workers - They even call themselves - Mystics!
Judaism today for the most part is a religion based on Mysticism and is not based on the Word of God.

I am not anti-semitic but the Talmud and Kabballa are ungodly books.
When the Jews were in Babylonian captivity alot of them brought Babylonian teachings with them.The OT.goes from a physical seed to a spiritual seed in the NT.Of course the Unbelieving Jews were cut off only due to their unbelief, just like any one else who rejects Christ.

Vancouver certainly is.

Surrey to hear that!:D

Do you adhere to Dispensationalism??

Do you Berk?

Matthew 23:2-3 The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so practice and observe whatever they tell you--but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

This passage of scripture seems very clear to me that Jesus recognized at least to some extent the teaching authority of the Pharisees.

John 11:49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all. 50 Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish." 51He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation

Even in Caiphas' utter depravity and wickedness, by virtue of the office that he held by the mandate of the law of God, was used as an instrument of God to proclaim a glorious truth. So God was faithful to his covenant people and even used corrupt people to reveal his means of grace.

No. :)

Jesus problem w/ the Pharisees was their attitude ... he never argued doctrine w/ them.

I don't know what to say... except that this is wrong. Totally wrong.

Jesus didn't destory Judaism. He fulfilled it. He was the epitomy of a Jew. That means he kept the feasts... the customs... the traditions (the ones based on biblical principals).

Sure, he exposed the out of balance teachings - there's no doubt about that, but he didn't come to destroy Judaism and start a NEW religion of "Christianity". He came to fulfill the 'religion' that his people practiced... Judaism.

The fact that he came as a Jew absolutely supports Judaism (of that time, of course).

Correct, except when their doctrine was out of balance...

However, for the most part, of ALL the sects at the time, Jesus' teachings were closest to the Pharisees overall.

Yes, God divorced the Jews... but if he was through with them, Jesus would not have come to them.

He came unto his own.

He didn't give up on them.

Ask yourself...
Who were the first believers? Gentiles or Jews?

....and they recieved Him not...

Certainly the early church came from those who praticed Mosaic Judaism.But is being a Jew one adheres to Judaism or a race?

Today, a Jew is one that adheres to Judaism. Atheist "Jews" are just Israeli's.

Scott,

Study Galatians!!

I have GAL.6:16 The Church.

What say ye ???



Romans 11

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

How did your NT get written then? lol

The unbelieving Jews were cast away by their unbelief.God did not cut them off.They cut themselves off by their unbelief.

This sounds like it's not fulfilled ...

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

What is the times of the gentiles?

You tell me ... ????