Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

Yea, Money Cometh!

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

Of course this kind of nepotism never happens on old time Oneness Pentecost!

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The salaries and monies paid are not at all out of line with the size of the organization or compensation paid to executives of a comparable size corporation. Matter of fact, they are very conservation in comparison.

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

But, the Church is not a corporation. It is the church, period. All that money is wasted!

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Brother, it takes money to do the work of the kingdom, the Copeland's raise more money in a year than most churches do in a lifetime. They invest in what they believe is the work of the kingdom. I am not particularly a fan of the Copeland's, but the idea that a para-church organization should not generate enormous amounts of money and pay the leaders well is ridiculous.

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

I live in Boyd, about 10 miles from this compound. It is ridiculous, they have armed gaurds on church property at all times.

I have a man who works for me who attends that church, (he moved from Virginia just to attend the Copeland church). I asked him about the armed gaurds, he said that when they take up the offering, they also have armed gaurds who escort the ushers.

This same man also lived in someoneone's back yard for 6 months while all of his tithe and offering went to people living the high life. Did they help him? Oh yeah, they rented him and his family a motel room for 2 weeks, but that was it.

Amazingly, He still goes there, and believes that those people are the most righteous of all christians.

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"Pay the leaders well"? I think that the idea that church leaders are entitled to be paid well is ridiculous.

Pay the leaders fairly, yes. But where does it say church/ministry leaders must be paid well?

Jesus wasn't paid well, neither was Paul, or any of the other apostles, as far as we know.

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

Ridiculous is living in a 6 million dollar home, and living a life of luxury, while the people under you are hurting. Ridiculous is having the ability to do so much more for others, but instead you live the easy life. Give me a break, Copeland needs to re-read Jeremiah.

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

Okay, I said I am not a fan!

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

I wonder if there is a single major national ministry that takes in millions where the leaders have not succumbed to the lure of the money in the sense that they justify a huge income and lifestyle based on comparing the offering totals to a secular corporate entity's income.

It would be nice to see one of these outfits have leaders who settle for just a very nice house and upper middle class lifestyle vs mansions, jets, etc.

I rememer reading where Richard Roberts used the ministries jet for his daughter to take her girlfriends on a graduation trip or something like that to the Bahammas or somewhere.

I don't begrudge a minister a decent lifestyle but living extravagently off of offerings people give for God's work is ridiculous no matter what Sandra and the prosperity preachers say.

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

"His ministry's 1,500-acre campus outside Fort Worth is testament to his success. It includes a church, private airstrip, a hangar for the ministry's aircraft and a $6 million, church-owned mansion"

From the article Granny posted...

Wow, private airstrip.. so I suppose there are planes or helicopters as well?

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

from the article:
"Kenneth Copeland Ministries is organized under the tax code as a church, so it gets a layer of privacy not afforded large secular and religious nonprofit groups that must disclose budgets and salaries. Pastors' pay must be "reasonable" under the federal tax code."

The whole "church" and "non-profit religious organizations" thing is kinda scary to me. Isn't it a form of corporate welfare or government establishment of religion to grant these organizations tax free status?

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CC1, As unpopular as it is to ask, we should be discovering why it is that many Charismatic and Pentecostal Ministries are against full disclosure of church finances. Why is this problem not tracking in Lutheran and Baptist Ministries who willingly submit and are members of accountability organizations?

On a much smaller scale than the Televangelists, why are some of our churches anti-financial statements when it comes to "tithing accounts"?

These questions will be resolved eventually by a government requirement... what a shame.

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I totally agree, however what is decent to one can be extravagant to another. I am not comfortable with any of the televangelist methods, but I don't know the extent of their ministry, so I just leave them to the Lord and don't watch them nor do is judge them.

I lean more toward Focus on the Family, David Wilkerson and such.

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

I know a man who was disfellowshipped from a local ALJC church because he wanted to know "where the money went."

When he asked, he was disfellowshipped, and then the lawyers said that since he wasn't a member they did not have to furnish financial disclosure.

From what I understand, he won his case in court but I haven't seen him in a while to talk about it so I don't know how it turned out.

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

What is the annual compensation (salary, perks, other benefits, allowances) per year for:
James Dobson?
David Wilkerson?
Ken Haney?
Benny Hinn?

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

Curious as to why K Haney is lumped in with tv preachers...

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Just wondering where he ranked with others?

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Oh come on. Every time someone brings up the faults of the trinitarians another person cries out "but you guys do it to." It gets old. Yeah, 'our' people are just as guilty, or more so. No one is disputing that.

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The Trinity and Oneness issue does not play into this - at least not to my knowledge. It seems to be a thing that the Pentecostal/Charismatics are plagued with. Financial scandal appears to be at epidemic levels among them, and it's quite disproportionate when comparing to the nonPentecostal religious community.

I think it's noteworthy that these same ministry types are also know to shun the accountability organizations (like http://www.ecfa.org/ ) that can help prevent and rectify the problems in question.

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Just wondering how a large organization like the UPC compares to radio ministries like Focus on the Family and to TV ministries like some of those I've listed.

Do we have any idea what kind of compensation those guys receive?
If they are non-profit, shouldn't information like that be available to the public?
Shouldn't there be some type of "watch dog" organization(s) monitoring them?
Are they hiding something?
If salaries are hidden and they are not paying taxes, doesn't that put more of a burden on those of us who are paying taxes?
I pay taxes on Social Security and a pension. Should others get by without paying taxes on income? or should real income be disguised and hidden so taxes (if any) are lower?

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

This is why I favor house churches and bi-vocational elders.

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Both of these ideas are totoally unscriptural and spring from the mind of philosofizers wishing to imbibe on the solitary solitude of dispositional and panderamically sertalocadratious individuals!

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

House churches are unscriptural? What Bible are you reading?

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

Um. Can you translate, please?

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

Currently I am not reading the bible however if you are wanting an explanation to my statement, I was not speaking in unilatteral terms but rather sociological and post modernistic ideaology. Within the foundation of scripture both the house and cathedral at large were used for worship however in our age the church in corporate form within a contextual conceptualization and authoritarian circumferance is the intended encapsulation for kairological outpourings in a chronistically saturated society.

That's all I was trying to say.

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

The Raven, you said house churches are unscriptural. You're wrong on that. Save all the fancy wording for someone who's interested. Who cares if the predominant way we meet today is in church buildings? That in no way makes house churches unscriptural.

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You are correct in that I said what you said I said BUT I did not mean what I said in the way that you interpreted what I said as being what I meant by what I said.

What I meant by what I said is given in the post that does not matter to you. I now believe it is scriptural just not in the exact essence of the meaning in which you possibly feel.

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

If you are interested in what I believe I will tell you that I believe in a sort of hybrid arrangement. My family and another family have started having house meetings. So far we have only been able to meet once. Neither family has a traditional church it belongs to, in case you are wondering. At our meeting we talked about incorporating visits to traditional churches so we can enjoy some corporate praise and worship. Unfortunately, our second meeting was cancelled, and we haven't scheduled another one yet. I am very much waiting to see how our meetings develop and what God does with our efforts.

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Sounds interesting. We started our church in our home and eventually outgrew it. Two things:

1) I feel strongly that there must be a pastor of the group no matter how big/small or location.

2) When it comes to bi-vocational pastors, I am one now. I pastor a church and work as a Instructional Assistant at our Middle School. That being said, since having to seek secular employment my ability to pastor as I would has suffered. As quickly as possible I will resume full time pastoring.

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We don't have a pastor, but I have been involved in ministry before. My guess is that if things grow enough we will eventually have to choose someone to be our leader, preferably not me.

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In these situations time is very important and folks will soon lokk for leadership. If you do not feel the call to pastor and or not under spiritual leadership yourself than for your protection and those of whom you reach, I would encourage you to reach out to a church where you all can be fed and leadership provided.

God often leads in mysterious ways and through prayer, fasting and humility direction will be given to you. It sounds as if you are a soul winner and hungry for God to move in your city. I wish there were more like yourself. Just remember that we cannot circumvent the blueprint in God's word when it comes to spiritual leadership and growth in God's kingdom.

Sorry for taking so long BUT this is exciting and also troubling news! I will be in prayer with you!

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

I agree...

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

What we consider God's blueprint might only be the North American way to raise a church and not God's way at all. I will say though that a group of men/women cannot lead without there being several areas of conflict. Even the Israelites wanted a king...someone to lead them. And then many fought against the rule of the King.

A board or group of men/committee who has a little power and control will not easily relinguish this control when a Pastor might present themselves. They might want a Pastor but in the end they enjoyed the power and control more than they want a Pastor. Just mark my words:)

Blessings, Rhoni

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

I don't know of any UPC preacher whose church owns an airstrip, but if you find me one let me know... I'd like to get to know them. :D

Sam, I don't know as the salary of my Gen Supt is hidden, I don't imagine it is. I don't personally know what he makes nor do I care. I know he's a man of God and integrity. What he makes, what he does with what he makes, is currently between him and God.

I just find it strange how a conversation can go from Kenneth Copeland, to Kenneth Haney so quickly. But then, this board is oftentimes very predictable.

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Well said. No preacher ever needs to live in a 6 million dollar home. period.

At best, that is a lack of wisdom and good judgment... and at worst, it's just shameful greed.

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I am quite sure the salaries at headquarters are not hidden from the General Board including the GS position.

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Bottom line, KH has money...BUT...it wasn't taken from any church or org, he made it, all by himself with SHREWD investments. He has a nose for the business world and if he went into business instead of ministry, he would have made gazzillions. His business savvy helped build the ministry up in Stockton....he is an honest man!!!

Sam, you could call Hazelwood and get a direct answer...folks before pounding on Sam, he has let us all know what his GE pension is!!!! I'm waiting for the Sam/GE fund for starving monkeys!!!

Re: Televangelist's Family Prosper's From Ministry
 

Well, just for the record...my husband has always dreamed of having a small plane and his own airstrip. I see nothing wrong with that, whatsoever, if that's what he wants to do. :coffee2

In general, though, a non-profit organization has no good reason to conceal financial records. Why would you hide something if you're not doing anything wrong? If you've been sloppy with salaries and records over the years, well, then I suppose there is something to worry about.