My Signature Diagram
 

What say you?


http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...ei-English.png


Does this fit into your theological construct of God?

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

In another thread

cneasttx said,
"The diagram is confusing btw.
God IS One. That's all we need to know."

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I like the way the diagram explains the Godhead but I am not so sure that I like saying what God is NOT. If we as humans can barely understand the Godhead how in the world can we say what God isn't.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

U376977 said,
"In answer to your question about the diagram, I can see where one could argue both oneness and trinitarian. But I would say primarily trinity because it reminds me of the phrases (non biblical) of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit."

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I believe it shows the uniqueness of the God!

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

So, the "is" relation is not transitive?

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

What if you said, instead of "Is Not" you said "Is Distinct From"?

The Father "Is Distinct From" the Holy Spirit, etc.

Maybe that is just my oneness theology showing through.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

But are they distinct from?

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

DG, I am totally OK with IS NOT. While being the same God, the Father is not the Son...

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I am not sure. This is where I have a problem with oneness theology that I have been taught all my life. Scripture makes the distinction all throughout the bible. The language of the Father, Holy Spirit, and Son are all there and in plain sight so I am not making the distinction. The Bible does.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

There certainly are things that can be said about each that cannot be said about the others (no matter how you define "others" and "each") hence, yes, there are distinctions between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Absolutely.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I have no problem with saying that they are not the same. Wow, how do I say this, but at the same time they are one. Sounds very trinitarian to me the way I speak. I guess I have been hanging around a lot of trinitarians lately.

But the phrase "Is Not" just seems to be using finite words to discribe an infinite God. That is where I have the problem not with the distinction.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Sorry Timmy I would have to do a word study on that one! :)

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Agreed!

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I do think I understand what you are saying. And I am not asking if the diagram is how you would prefer to describe God, but rather if it holds true to scripture and your understanding of who God is.

The "is not" is there for good reason.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I have been reading the book, "The Shack" and it has a very beautiful description of the Godhead from a human point of view. I have had trinitarians tell me it was a wonderful explanation of the trinity. However, when I read it I think that it describes my oneness beliefs. Ha ha.

I highly recommend this book.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

In one of these discussions before someone said "Jesus is the Father" - - - I cannot say that.

God is the Father and Jesus is God, but Jesus is not the Father.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

The diagram can describe Oneness and Trinitarianism.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Just like Delta's book he's reading......it's all in the interpretation.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Well, I think it would be easier for trinitarians to go along with the diagram than oneness folks. I was always taught that the Godhead was just manifestations of one God. I tend to agree with this because it was always hammered into my head. I haven't completely made up my mind on all of this though.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Follow the link! ;)

In a nutshell, if A is B, and B is C, then A is C (if "is" is transitive).

1. The Father is God
2. The Son is God

Transitivity implies that

3. The Father is the Son

This is assuming that, in the diagram, "God" is a noun (proper noun, i.e. a name) and not an adjective (synonym for "divine", perhaps).

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

That's right! Some folks look at that diagram and say it supports a Trinity within the Godhead. Others see it as defining the different manifestations of God and the relations of those manifestations to the other.

I guess it depends on the glasses you are wearing!:roseglasses

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Of course that is the crux of the matter for many in Oneness circles.

When someone says "Jesus, the Son of God, is NOT the Father" they read into it a denial of the deity of Jesus. I am the first to say Jesus is God Almighty - which was, is, and is to come. At the same time it should not be said that Jesus, the Only Begotten Son, was the Father to that Son.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Then the answer is NO.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Then is "God" an adjective, in the diagram? Would it be equivalent if "divine" were in the center?

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I hear you.

This does not have to come from you...

but I am interested in knowing specifically what it is that a Oneness veiw disagrees on.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

When I read the word, God, I always think of a who and and not a what, therefore I would not agree with the qualitative (divine) sense of the word, God.

Interesting that you brought that point up!

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

It would be euivalent only only as it relates to divinity.

I am not sure laws of Math and English will work here actually...

God can found adding to Himself, and limiting Himself, even "creating" Himself through the incarnation.

Great is the mystery.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

So true!

I feel that as long as I acknowledge that Jesus is Lord is what matters!

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Yes, that is our primary obligation.

But this discussion is important for other reasons entirely.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

There are really two big problems with the diagram. The part where HG is called "God the HG," is no where in the Bible. Do a word search and try to find it. And the biblical language is "Son of God," not "God the Son.

Secondly is what most are posting about. The "is not." "Is not" is what "distinct" means. And folks if you have "distinctions" then you have the Trinity. It is confusing because obvisously the Father is not the Son is not the Holy Ghost. Oneness allows for that--that is where we use our "role" and "manifestation" terminology. But at the same time we say that Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost all at the same time.

My q. is why use the diagram? It is confusing at best and requires a lot of explanation to convey what is acutally meant.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I am not saying I am confused about the Godhead at all.
I am saying the diagram itself is confusing to me. Those kinds of diagrams always have been.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I am sorry, I do not see those "terms" used in the Diagram.

The primary purpose for me using the diagram is to have this discussion.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

Nevermind the graphics... Are the statements true in your understanding of the God of scripture?

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I like it.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

No, it does not fit into mine.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

No.

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

I guess it's according to what direction you read the diagram.

These three are ONE

OR

This one is three - - - LOL!

Re: My Signature Diagram
 

This is why I like it. I've heard too many folks claim that we believe Jesus is his own father.