To all you ladies out there
 

Well i have a question to all the ladies, whether you are a con or a lib or ultra con, if or when you changed from being a conservative to a lib or other, what was the first thing you went and did when you changed churches or quit going to church, standard wise,

did you cut your hair first?
did you wear pants and shorts?
did you put makeup on?

what was it that you did differently,

and no i do not plan to change but i am tired of people trying to measure your spirituality by what you wear and what you look like,

i will not change my dress or other, but i am a conservative, i am just tired of being measured



please your opinions

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

I am not a woman but since my wife doesn't post on here I will try to tell a little of her story.

We were both raised UPC but she was more conservative than me when we started dating and married.

She did trim the dead ends off her hair but did not cut it. She also didn't wear any makeup that I can recall other than perhaps lip gloss somtimes.

She did not wear pants in public but would in private while riding horses, etc. She believed in wedding rings but her pastor did not.

This is the end of part one. I just realized how late it is and have to go to bed! Will continue the dramatic story tomorrow. LOL!!!

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Uh oh! The slippery slope awaits you, Sister. :tease

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Dude, I am not sure if you were trying to be funny, but this was hilarious!

:ursofunny

Trimming the ends is cutting
Lip gloss is makeup
Wedding rings against her pastor's belief?
and last but not least,
wearing pants while riding horses in Private? Where do you ride horses in private? It is still wearing pants!

Exactly how conservative were you that she was moreso?

:D

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

i really am not on a slippery slope. just wanted to know what other woman did when they changed, i want to know if i am as human as a woman when i did backslide a long time ago, what came frist -thats all

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

You can call me a nudist - I bath with no cloths on. Garden of Eden Style.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

i do not have a problem wearing pants when i am working if i know there is no one around, cause i work late-late at night, so i do not see anyone, i clean buildings when people are in bed

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

i dont think that we should have a problem wearing pants if we are riding a horse, it is no big deal, we cannot be banned from everything, and riding a bike, there are shorts long enough to be modest, dont ya think? even though i am a con

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Well think of it this way, if a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around does it still make a sound?

If a woman is alone and there is no one around to look at her, does she still need to wear a skirt?

...besides, it is a bit presumptive on many women's part to believe that if they put on a pair of slacks they will instantly become a sex symbol. Just look around.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Yes, and we LOVE being seen with our womens riding them bikes in those long flowing pant-skirt-baloon shorts!

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

...thats not modest.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

well sometimes i do not do things because there is always someone around to judge you if you are wearing something you know you should not, i do have a conviction about certain things but if there is no one around and i see no one,, what would be the big deal if i work late at night around no one

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

So you are saying your convictions are based on what other people think? After all, you just said you have no convictions about wearing pants if there is no one around?

Who is more important, the God of Glory or every single man who you have accused as being a lusting looky loo?

Isn't that the point? That ALL men are dogs, saved or not, holy ghost filled or not that women have to control what they wear in order to keep men from lusting?

gee.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

well i do say guys who are living for God or not will look, thats the nature of the man, maybe some are so spiritual they will not look, so if they dont look than i am proud of them, but i do not base my convictions on anyone else but myself, i do care what people say, cause they could see me and say to someone else in church that they saw me in pants, then they are gossiping, which i think is worng,i think it is between me and God not me and the people

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Honey, while this was rather difficult to actually understand, you said a mouthful.

Women across Apostolica should take notice here.


...I am insulted...I think. :D

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

What does it say about our OP culture, though, when we have so many things that we end up having to "hide" from one another. Why can't a lady who wears pants just be upfront about it and be accepted by the rest of the group?

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Accepted :snapout To many, a woman in pants is as bad as prostitution.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

I just don't like the implication that we men are nothing but a bunch of lusting idiots and that somehow women can do something about it by wearing skirts. There are other women out there you know who do wear pants...and we haven't fallen yet, but maybe it is because we are not as shallow as women think we are.

:slaphappy

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

It is just hard for me to believe that people still actually believe all this!
So very, very sad!

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

carp really i dont think your shallow, and i really am not hiding anything, i think there are some good men out there and you probably are a good man, but i dont have a problem with pants in the work place, but also i am not hiding it, pelathias,

i really do not think all men are dogs, but pentecostal men if they see a woman that goes to there church and they are wearing pants then they visualize it when they are wearing a skirt the next time they see her, at least i would think so. i dont know. if the men lusts then its there problem not the womans unless she is really immoral,

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Well, you can't just sit there and say it is sad. It makes you look like you are trying to be elitist or something. People get pretty angry when you or I sit there and shake our head at something they are passionate about as though it is meaningless or even silly to us.

Disagree with me? Go ahead and try this on your wife the next time she tells you it is important not to leave your wet towel on the bed.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

ROFL! I have never left my wet towel on the bed! ;-)

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

i am talking about wearing pants in the workplace if ya have to and wearing long shorts or pants riding a bike, i am not talking about looking like a prostitute, like i said i do not see anyone late at night me and my hubby work at commercial buildings

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

trust me bishop people like stirring up junk that is so small, it really has nothing to do with your walk with God, unless it is out of order, like drinking or smoking or going to the clubs it is a different story than wearing pants late at night when there is no one around to see me

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

I was replying to pelathais. He said that people should accept it. While I may or may not agree with him, I was saying: how can they accept something that they believe is so bad. :snapout

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

well like i said i do not think this situation really is so bad, its just wearing pants to work, without no one around,

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Satan is the one who tempts,if you do things to tempt,who are you ? A person tempted Jesus one day and Jesus said get behind me Satan.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

I must say,there is nothing worse then men and women showing their shape,both men and women should wear robes.Satan is a temptor.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

live4him,

Life itself is a process of growing and changing. When my mother came into the Pentecostal church/way of life, I was 7 years old. I had just went forward at a Southern Baptist Church and gave my life to God. I was Baptized in the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit at my request.

My mother had been a professional dance instructor at Arthur Murrays as well as a model and cosmetologist. The UPCI church we found our way to was ultra conservative. Mom loved God with all her heart and willingly gave up the pants, shorts, and even the makeup, but she would never let any of her daughters grow up without freshly plucked eyebrows, shaved legs & underarms, and without nice fitting and pricey clothing. We were always the best dressed girls in our home church. We all had beautiful and thick hair and had the most elaborate of the UPCI hairdoes of the time and I could still fix them if I had to.

When I went to Bible College [JCM], I was exposed to other church 'standards'. I always considered myself a rung above most of the girls there in 'holiness' :tease. I was appalled at the slits in skirts, the cut bangs, and side curls, the makeup, and the illicit sex that was ramphant at the time [1975-1978]. Although I was hurt and disillusioned by what I saw, God spoke to me through Bro. A.D. Spears and throughout my JCM days I held on to the way I was taught.

Through early marriage when all around me I saw Mary Kay, pants & shorts, and competition in money, rings, furs, ect...I still kept myself free from this, for the most part. As a Pastor's wife in UPCI I had to hold myself to a higher standard..which was not difficult because that was the way I was raised.

The changes came when I experienced church trouble for the first time [I was not raised in a Preacher's home, [My father was an alcoholic and my mother a religious fanatic], and the bad spirits, the hatred, the contention, and the backbiting and judging was more than I could bear. For the first time I saw the hypocrisy of it all. Holiness standards on the outside but sin and evil lurking on the inside.

After resigning from a church I loved, a move to Florida, the church split that asked us to return and pastor them, and then the being ostrasized by peers, family, and friends within the UPCI...I decided I had had enough.

1. The first thing I did was decided to have no more to do with any of it and took a job outside the church. I still kept the 'holiness standards',

2. The second things I did was have an affair, I still kept the 'holiness standards'.

3. The third thing I did was repent, I was shamed, embarrassed, and mortified because I always thought I was so much more 'holy' than those I had judged and criticized. I still kept the 'holiness standards'. I confessed to my husband and the church board who readily forgave me although it was most difficult for my husband and his family. His father counseled him to get rid of his 'Jezebel wife' and he would have a 'ministry'.


4. I had a car accident which was nearly fatal but God raised me up. I have shared this testimony again and again on AFF so I will not belabor the details. Aside from wearing cullottes [leg in a cast and in and out of a wheelchair and physical therapy] and eye cream to cover the eye flaw [my eyebrow and lid was laid open by a cut received from the steering wheel]..I continued to keep the 'holiness standards'.

5. When I got back on my feet, after 6 months in and out of the hospital, therapy, and rehabilitation...I was feeling so good to be able to get back to work and get back to my responsibilities at the church...still keeping the 'holiness standards'. I was let go from my job so they didn't have to pay a workman's comp claim, and my husband filed for divorce without my knowledge, and I was still keeping the 'holiness standards'.

6. While we were separated and I had the children with me, going to a UPCI church and receiving counseling from Rev. Richard Martin, and friends and family were praying that God would restore our marriage...my husband was dating one of the girls from our church. My children are the ones that told me. Then when I went to pick the children up at the church day care, the daycare director asked me what I thought about my husband's engagement? I said, "He is still married last time I checked, what do you think about his adultery?" I was still keeping the 'holiness standards'.


7. The day the divorce was final...I went and had my ears pierced, I resigned from my church and moved to another city, put my children in a UPCI high school, and sat in that UPCI church and listened for two years about how not holding the 'holiness standards' would send you to hell, and how that being divorce disqualified a person from being used by God, and how that we didn't need an education to be used by God.

8. The day my ex got remarried, 9 months after the divorce was final, I went out with family and friends and had a bit too much to drink to celebrate the death of a marriage and ministry. I stopped keeping 'holiness standards'.

To be continued...sometime....

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Not that my comment will mean anything...."convictions based on what other people think?"
Yes....acually...Peer pressure in the apostlic church is real and alive. Pressure to conform to their standards (speaking for me 20 years ago). In reality, no one wants to go to hell, so we do what we are told without question BECAUSE we WANT to PLEASE GOD! God is very important, and so is our acceptance by church members. Only after time, choices of wearing pants in private,-- why you ask,-- so as to not offend a member; so as to avoid confrontation; because some people unknowingly can have others tell them what to do for so long that when one begins to make decisions or think for themselves, it's hard. And comments from UC'-likes, as stated above is, well..terrifing to say the least to answer to.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Many people complain about the OP dress code affecting women and not men but I have heard from a reliable source that the true test of a man's committment to standards is his willingness to go white water rafting in a dress shirt and dress shoes to deflect any amazement and giggling that might be directed toward his wife or other OP women folks with him based on their dress for such an adventure.

(I remember a lovely picture snapped of a female UPC relative of mine snapped a few years ago at a water park while she was whizzing down a giant slide with her "modest" skirt flapping back over her head - LOL!!!)

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Rhoni,

Thanks for sharing your story. I have never heard it.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Could be because I have never told it...I hope it helps someone to see how these things progress and what true holiness is...and it has little to do with outward dress.

Blessings, Rhoni

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

:ursofunny

A pink soft, fluffly one for me and don't forget the pink bunny slippers too!

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

I love it Rhoni! Thanks.:friend

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Your transparency is greatly appreciated! I think you have an amazing testimony, and the fact that you are open with your life shows what a genuine character you have!
Thanks Rhoni!

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Wonderful post Rhoni.....I do appreciate your story....I can relate...
Bless you Sister!!!

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

People wonder why I am transparent...Jesus wants me to be..it is the only way others can know that other people have went through similar situations and there is hope, mercy, and grace for them also.

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Amen!

Re: To all you ladies out there
 

Beautiful!