Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

I noticed that Suber's church website has a statement of faith that sounds like a one stepper. I thought that might be shocking to his many fans. Of course it could be the statement from when it was under the previous pastor but I can't imagine that pastor giving the church to someone doctrinally different than himself.

Here is the church website;

http://faithtabernacleshreveport.org/

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

…all believers should be buried with Christ Jesus in the waters of baptism (Acts 2:38, Rom. 6:3-5, Matt. 28:19).

…that the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit of God gives the utterance is an endowment of power given to the believer for sanctification and evangelism (Acts 1:8, 2:1-4, 19:1-2).

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Don't start this ...again. Bro. Jon Suber has not changed.

Get a life.

Blessings, Rhoni

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Gee.. kinda harsh, aren't we?
I think it's a fair question to ask.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

People always look for an excuse to tear down. Just wait until he begins to wears jeans and a t-shirt on Sunday Morning.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Careful,
We can become a heresy hunter like Torquemada Hanegraff and suspect everybody and trust nobody.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

TR,

You might think so but this has been visited and revisited and I think we need to think on whatsoever things are true, holy, of a good report, if there be any virtue, if there be any praise...think on these things.

In Jesus name.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

I think it is a fair question when you (or your website) makes statements to make people wonder where you stand.


The burden of clarity rests with the speaker, not the listener (or reader in this case).

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Any well-seasoned Pastor knows that when you take a new church you have to give the church time to adjust to you before making any changes. Let him have the privacy he needs to shape a ministry there without all the judgements and questions. Pray for the Pastor and his congregation but leave this off of the public forum.

Thank you.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

The burden of proof should lie with the person who has so much time on their hands they have to look for controversies. That is why church websites should remove their doctrinal statements from their websites. Nobody but the insiders care what your doctrinal statement is. Can't recollect one person being saved because of a doctrinal statement. Can't recall a testimony of a person who was scrolling through a web site and read the doctrinal statement and said, "Yup, That's the church I want to attend."

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

You know that isn't going to happen with the eat your own mentality.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

I like the "We Believe" statement. Is there something specific in it that you object to, WearyPilgrim?

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Just because people might have questions about where he stands, that doesn't mean they are being negative, or trying to tear him down.
I agree.
Suber is one of the most well known figures in Oneness Pentecost. If he did, for whatever reason, shift his position, its something that's obviously going to make people take notice.. and understandably so.

As for me, I'll just say reading his Articles of Faith on his website,it reads more like what you'd see from a 1-stepper church than a 3-stepper church. The man can describe his doctrinal positions however he chooses... but if he is indeed still 3-stepper, it's not worded in such a way that would clearly show that he is. Simple fact is, as long as his website is worded the way it is, it's going to make people wonder what side of the fence he is on.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Their summary of beliefs looks like good old Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal Holiness to me:

We Believe:

…in one God, revealed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Duet. 6:4, II Cor. 13:14, John 1:1).

…that our Lord Jesus Christ was the only begotten of the Father, and is truly God and truly man. He was born of the virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, died a vicarious and atoning death for the sins of the world, resurrected bodily for our justification, and now reigns in glory until all things be put under his feet (I Tim 3:16).

…in the absolute inspiration of the Holy Scriptures in their original autographs given by the Holy Spirit as He moved upon holy men of old. Furthermore, we believe that the Holy Bible accepted as Canon by the early Christian Church to be the only written Word of God (2 Pet 1:21).

…that man was made in the image of God and is by the reason of “the Fall” alienated from his creator. Apart from God’s grace he has no ability to attain relationship with God (Psa. 8, Eph. 2:8-9).

…in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who died on the cross in our place, as the supreme sacrifice for sin, was buried in a tomb, but rose again the third day and reigns in glory interceding for us (I John 2:1).

...that justification is by grace through faith in the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:21-24).

…all believers should be buried with Christ Jesus in the waters of baptism (Acts 2:38, Rom. 6:3-5, Matt. 28:19).

…that the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit of God gives the utterance is an endowment of power given to the believer for sanctification and evangelism (Acts 1:8, 2:1-4, 19:1-2).

…that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit are active in the church today (I Cor. 12:4-7).

…in the Five-Fold Ministry of Prophets, Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers, for the perfecting of the saints to do the work of God (Eph. 4:11-16).

…that the believer called by the name of Christ should depart from iniquity, allowing the Holy Spirit to conform us to the image of Christ (2 Tim 2:19, Rom. 8:29).

…in the literal second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, the resurrection of the dead, and triumph of God’s Kingdom over Satan (Acts l:9-11, Daniel 12:2; Revelation 22:1-7).

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

I *always* read the doctrinal statement when I'm looking for a new church...

Wait, that makes it sound like I look for a new church often. lol When I first walked into church, I'd looked at the website the night before and that was the first page I went to. After I left that church, I read websites looking for a church. There were a lot that I eliminated due to what the doctrinal statement said.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

I was booted off a conservative forum once because I refused to play their word games. I said I believed he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. I said I beleived that acts 2:38 was the culmination of the salvation experience. The borg wanted me to word it exactly the way they said it, but I wouldn't play their pithy little game. There is more than one way to word a doctrinal statement.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

If by continuing to post, I'm not respecting this Pastor and his new church, that's not my intention.

Please delete my post and "ding" me if I am out of line.

Church websites should not remove their doctrinal statements. There are folks, like me, who have hunted for a church to attend, found one online that I thought was Pentecostal only to find out they were Church of Christ.

It happens. If that church had been clearer about it's doctrinal statements and their affiliation, then I would not have wasted my gas.

If there is someone spending their time trying to find and instigate controversies, then they are wrong.

Clarity is the responsibility of the author.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

The website shouldn't be geared for church hoppers or out town visitors. A website should be geared to reaching the unsaved. The unsaved aren't going to give a flip what your doctrine is. If they feel the love of Jesus though the website, they will eat glass if they want what you have.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

The basic fundamental doctrine of this organization shall be the Bible standard of full salvation, which is repentance, baptism in water by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the initial sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.

We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all the brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

No, but I just might be scrolling through a website and say that's one I want to stay clear of!

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

If I did not know of this man, I'd say that he was not UPCI, because of the bolded.

"Justification" isn't that another way of saying, "you're saved"?

This is how I believe, but I KNOW that THIS IS NOT where most of the UPCI draws their "line" for salvation.

Or can one be "justified" and still go to hell upon death?

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

ditto

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Well, I'll just speak plainly here. I don't care who gets mad.

From what I've observed, 1- steppers tend to be more vague in their doctrinal statements than 3-steppers.... and 1-steppers tend to get irritated and/or defensive moreso than 3-steppers, when asked to clarify what they really mean by a particular part of their doctrinal statement.

I'm sure there are multiple reasons for that. But I'll just leave it at that for now.
Just my observation.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Can you point out one instance where a 1 stepper has gotten irritated and/or defensive moreso than 3 steppers?

The only people I know of that get defensive over a vague statement that appears to be 1 stepper are those that are actually 3 steppers but trying to put forth a vague statement of faith that is as inclusive as possible so as not to run off possible visitors before they even darken the doors of the church.

Why in the world would a true one stepper be defensive over their SOF?

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

My initial question is are you planning to visit Shreveport soon?

Your posts brings up serious warning flags. Contrary to popular belief, there is more to the Bible than Acts 2:38. There are people who don't get salvation right, but they are on target on holy living, being fruitful christians, etc. We greatly do the body of Christ a disservice by discounting other denominations. I go to a Church of Christ college for my bachelor's degree. No one could pay me to attend an upci Bible college, truth or no truth. While I haven't change my doctrinal beliefs, my walk with God has been dramatically changed for the better by reading books from John Stott, CS Lewis, and from getting a fresh perspective from another view.

Your post exposed the fact many believe truth to be exclusive. Truth by definition is universal. John 3:16 is universal in any denomination. If truth is not universal, than it ceases to be truth. That's why I can visit a methodist church, go to a christmas mass at a catholic church, worship at World Harvest Church, pray at the nation's capitol with thousands of other people. We may have a key peice of the puzzle, but it isn't the only piece.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Years ago there was a large UPC in Shreveport pastored by Bro. Jack Moore.
Is that church still there and is it UPC?

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Is this an acceptable statement of faith?
http://jesus-messiah.com/html/statement.html

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

You are a saint, not a sinner. Point being a sinner cares less what a doctrinal statement is than we care to admit.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Ok, let's pretend this is fair. I'm a single mom with 4 kids. Going to church at all is a nightmare. I'm also desperate to be fed while at church. Ok. That's two strikes against visiting church after church just to find one that has a doctrine I can agree with.

FWIW, I'm not a church hopper. I don't post about the reason I left the church I did, because it doesn't really matter. Some people here go to churches like that and they're happy, some like me, have left churches like that because they weren't going to be ok there.

I did finally find a church, online, and moved 2000 miles to attend it. Crazy, I know, but I wouldn't change it for anything.

A website reaching the unsaved is an interesting idea. I'm not so sure it'd work very well, but it's interesting all the same. You do realize that the doctrinal statement is usually hidden pretty well on most church sites, right? And, you do realize that most people looking at a church website didn't stumble on it, they're looking for it, and the sort of people who are looking for a church online are probably going to be the people to whom a doctrinal statement does matter.

Or move 2000 miles to attend the church... But that wasn't anything about the church website, it was about the people in the church who I met and got to know.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Jack Moore was influenced by the 'latter rain movement' they have not been UPC for decades it is a Charismatic church today.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

What a salvo!!!!

Although gr pretty well lost me about halfway through his statement of faith. I have to give the devil his due. At the end of all that mess he has a link to get you to convert to messianic judiasm.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

(1)
Wow! Next I'll be said to be sounding like an ultra con-- and that would just be funny!!!

(2)
I did not discount their denomination. However, a "Church of Christ" is not the place where I believe the Lord would send me to seek His face. Neither do I have any desire at all to attend their services, from the little bit I do know about them. I didn't say they were unsaved, but I guess we can learn a lot from those clean living and holy LDS folks too. Hey most JW's are clean living, maybe I can learn from them too!

See the fallacy in your argument? Which is why I stand by my assertion: it is better for a church to outline their doctrinal views so as to not leave any question to what they believe.

Had the church in question done so, this thread would not exist.

(3)
I disagree with your assertion. I know that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is by nature, exclusive and down right offensive.

(4)
I agree with you, but I usually avoid the Catholics, but that's just me.

Personally, the TRUTH is Repentance, water baptism by immersion in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost as promised to all believers. This TRUTH is Biblical and historically documented to be the same TRUTH of the church fathers.

And I also believe there are those who may not have every aspect of this TRUTH who are still saved.

But my whole gist is this: if one is clear, then situations like this are avoided all together!

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Do you believe the only preachers who can feed you have to believe the same things you do?

I don't believe in catholicism, but I bought a book by Pope John Paul that challenged me to more of a witness. I bought a book about a lady who gave up a high class lifestyle to become a nun in one of the worst prisons in Mexico. Our doctrinal statements are miles apart, but hey ministered to me. If it were my choice between going to a church whose doctrinal statement is different than mine and staying home, I'd go to church. I am strong enough in my convictions that the differences won't sway me.

We've visited the Methodist church up the block from our house when we couldn't get to our church due to inclimate weather. God moves in a methodist church as well as in a pentecostal church.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

No, I don't wish to point out particular examples.
However, I stand behind my statement/assertion 110%, based on what I've observed multiple times both on this forum, and away from it.

Have a nice night.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

:crazywalls :nobodycares :lalala

Not Again?

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

No. But I want to know a little bit about their background, i.e. beliefs before I allow myself to be influenced by whatever it is they have to say.

satan is so deceptive. Sister/Brother, we have to be careful as to who we let speak into our lives. satan did not come to Eve with bold lies and he won't come to us with bold lies either.

Please, be careful. Not every "christian" is our brother or sister.
The Bible says there are those who will be deceived and will deceive others.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. No man cometh untio the Father, but by me is an universal truth. Acts 2:38 is an universal truth. No demoniation has a monopoly on truth. There is more to truth than acts 2:38. My KJV, NLT, NIV, The Message, BLT versions all have 66 books in them. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water because someone's doctrinal statement looks funny to me.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Your posts usually make a lot of sense but I am still puzzled by your assertion here.

Give me one logical reasin a 1 stepper would have to be irritated or defensive about their statement of faith? That makes no sense and I have NEVER seen it.

I would expect both 3 steppers and 1 steppers to be content with their statements of faith since it reflects what they actually believe.

The only ones who should not be content are ones who might camaflague their true beliefs in some vague statement.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

I hear ya. God is God no matter where He is. But there are some things I need right now, and I'm not willing to settle *right now*. I'm not strong enough in my convictions at this time that I wouldn't be swayed. And, I have an awful lot to lose if I were to go back to my past. I'm not willing to risk it.

And no, my pastor doesn't believe exactly like I believe. As a matter of fact, he challenges my beliefs frequently. But I trust him, and I know that what he's teaching is true, and I know that I'm finding my footing and that a foundation is being established. Those are the things I desperately need.

Re: Has Jon Suber embraced the One Step Doctrine?
 

Good post.
And when someone is relocating to a new city or state, they will often look at a church's website (and statement of faith) to see if that's a church they and/or their family might like to to attend.
Those people are not "church hoppers".

Not to mention that I've seen many Apostolics over the years who were away from home on business for a few days, or a weekend, and wanted to look up a church to go to that Sunday while they're in town. Most Apostolics I know wouldn't want to go to a church on Sunday morning and then realize the church is not Apostolic.

Again, these people are not church hoppers, and they generally appreciate it when a church has a clear statement of faith on their website.