Paganism in Christianity
 

from pages 4 and 13 of the March 1956 the Pentecostal Herald

Paganism in Christianity
by Roy H. Maki
(minister, Duluth, Minnesota)

A noted scholar once remarked that much of present-day Christianity is nothing more t h a n "baptized paganism." Anyone who has delved at length into pagan mythological beliefs of ancient times can vouch for the fact that much of what is palmed off as genuine Christianity is simply paganism in a new garb.

Church Festivals

One need only to trace the history of the observance of practically all the so-called Christian festivals celebrated by nominal Christianity, to come to the surprising conclusion that the Apostate Church has taken these festivals "lock, stock, and barrel," from paganism, and forced them to fit into the Church calendar by associating Christ and the apostles with pagan deities and personalities, and substituting Biblical observances for pagan ones if they were at all similar. Almost to a letter the Church festivals generally coincide with the dates of the earlier pagan festivals!

The Apostate Church, willing to meet paganism halfway, compromised the precious truth spoken by Jesus Christ, and the doctrines left us by His disciples and apostles. So-called Christianity did not convert paganism, but rather assimilated it with its customs. In short, paganism had overcome t h e Church without the Church's being aware of it. The pagan antagonists of Augustine taunted, "There is no difference between you and the pagans, except that you hold separate meetings." Thus did the Church go from the mountain top of inspiration into the valley of tradition, completely obliterating her apostolic heritage.

Christmas And Easter

The methods of celebrating the Nativity, and Easter, the two prime festivals of the Christian calendar, are excellent examples of how paganism has almost totally obscured the original significance of these two occasions.

No one denies that the chief festival of the pagan cult of Mithraism was the annual celebration of the birthday of "The Unconquered Sun" on the, 25th of December. Emperor Constantine, the first "Christian" ruler of the Roman Empire, was devoted to Apollo, the sun god of the Greeks and the Romans, and designated him as his patron. Apollo had a day of worship set aside called "the sun's day." Many of the early representations of Christ on the banners of the Roman legions of Constantine pictured Him in the garb of Apollo, with the rays of the sun streaming about His head.

Easter is another Church festival which is pagan in concept. It is encumbered with pagan ideas of Easter eggs, bunnies, and senseless ritual, which includes abstaining from certain meats, and observing special days considered holy in themselves. Authorities agree that the word "Easter" is a corruption of the name Astarte or Asharoth, a licentious pagan deity. The translators of the King James version "leaned over backward" to include the word "Easter" in their translation of the Bible. The word "Easter" used in Acts 12:4 should have been translated "Passover," and is thus designated in the margin.

The Trinity

The doctrine of the Trinity is another example of how paganism has obscured vital Christian doctrines. It is difficult to comprehend how paganism could have crept into our so-called Christian doctrines but the transition has been so subtle as to escape the scrutiny of most theologians. Nevertheless the fact remains that behind the fundamental doctrine of the Trinity
lies the essential pagan concept of a plurality of gods!

Most sensible theologians and Christians will be the first to deny that they believe in a plurality of Gods. But a study of the controversies which raged over the Godhead among the ante-Nicene theologians shows that such a concept was held by many of them. The early Church was divided into three contending parties--one believing in three separate and distinct Gods (the Tritheists) , another which believed that God the Father and Christ the Son were one and the same Person (the Sabellians or the Patripassians), and a third which
believed that there was one God in three Persons (Athanasian Trinitarianism). There were also the Arians, who denied the divinity of our Lord.

Some of the representations of the Trinity in Christian literature and art have been rather bizarre. One is a picture which depicts God the Father and Christ the Son as a man with two heads on one body! One of the heads in this particular picture looks like the average one of Christ, while the other is that of an old man, to represent the Father. The Holy Ghost in the form of a dove rests in the foreground of the picture of this Trinity. Certainly pictures of this sort must be repugnant to the average sensible Christian.

This fantastic concept of three separate and distinct Gods has its roots in paganism, which was allowed to creep into the apostate Church. Consider for example the following pagan trinities, which will be explained briefly.

Pagan Trinities

In India the ancient Hindu divinity was called Eko Deva Trimurtti, which means "one God, three forms." It is represented as a being with three heads on one body. The Buddhists of Japan worshipped a similar three-headed god whom they called San Pao Fuh.

The ancient Persians symbolized their trinity of gods in the form of a shamrock, the very same kind of shamrock which St. Patrick used to illustrate to the pagan Irish the meaning of the Christian Trinity! The ancient Babylonians worshipped a Trinity in unity, called Asshur, symbolized in the form of an old man to represent the father encircled by a cipher to represent the son, and having the wings and tail of a dove to represent the spirit.

According to Layard, the Babylonians also used the equilateral triangle to symbolize their triform divinity. The Egyptians too used the triangle to represent their trinity of gods. Not too long ago I read an article by a Trinitarian who used this very same pagan symbol of the triangle to prove a point.

It is interesting to note that the supreme divinity in almost all heathen nations was a triune divinity.

Monotheism

On page 745 of Halley's Pocket Bible Handbook we read, "The Genesis idea that man started with a belief in One God, and that polytheistic idolatry was a LATER DEVELOPMENT, has been verified in inscriptions found by Langdon, in pre flood layers, at Jemdet Nasr, near Babylon. In Egypt, Petrie found indications that Egypt's first religion was Monotheistic."

How then, might we ask, did polytheistic ideas creep into the thinking of the ancients? The answer, we believe, is to be found in the 10th chapter of Genesis, wherein is given a short history of Nimrod "the mighty hunter before the Lord.'' This same Nimrod was the founder of the first city, Nineveh, in the land of Shinar. It is proven that Nimrod is the same as Ninus, the first king of Babylon. Contrary to popular belief, Nimrod hunted more than wild beasts. He captured the souls of men as the cofounder, with his wife Semiramis, of a gigantic religious system, set up to oppose and frustrate the plan of God as revealed to the Israelites and their descendants. Eventually these pagan notions of Nimrod and Semiramis found their way from Babylon to practically every country of the ancient world. The religious
concepts and deities of practically all pagan religions have their counterpart in the Babylonian religious system.

The pure monotheism inspired by the Israelites and the early inhabitants of the earth was corrupted by Nimrod. Much of the paganism including the basic idea of a Trinity of Gods, found in Christianity has come down to us straight from Babylon.

The Council Of Nicea

So divided was the thinking of the theologians of the Nicene era, and so intense were their quarrels over the nature of the Godhead, that Emperor Constantine, a quasi pagan at best, was forced to call a council to settle the most important Christian doctrines. It was this same Constantine who revered the sun god Apollo, and who held the office of Pontifex Maximus,
the nominal head of the pagan state religion of Rome, who presided over the Council of Nicea, in 325 A. D. He later assumed the right to pass on the reasonableness of Christian dogma, issuing decrees upholding his verdicts.

A Helpful Suggestion

Our prayer is that Christendom as a whole will cast out of her midst all that is pagan and unscriptural, and strive to the end that "we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God." May God enlighten our minds and cause us to prayerfully
consider the infinite mysteries of the Godhead. May we always have a sane, logical, and scriptural foundation for our convictions. Let us hold fast to the divinity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and resist all efforts to relegate Him to a secondary position in our
worship and thinking.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Oh, the list goes on and on with this one.

Steeples on the church? Yes... from pagan temples of the fertility god.

Shekhina... oh how we like to use that word.. the Shekhina Glory of God was really in this place tonight... did you know that word is not even in the Bible? Where did it come from? Jewish Mysticism. Believe me, just because I put the word Jewish in front of it, doesn't change the fact that it's mysticism. Shekhina was the mother of God. Yep..

Sunday is Sun God worship.. the sabath was really on Saterday.

From Friday to Sunday is not three days for the resutection.

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:shockamoo ...and we usually make pagan whatever we don't like...

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

I just want to know who the noted scholar was

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

......and CHOOSE to ignore our own truly pagan practices by making excuses for ourselves. We dance around the Christmas tree and give honor to the sun with our "sonrise" services. All the while claiming to have "truth" and the apostolic doctrine. Baloney. Peter never had a christmas tree or got up at dawn to pray in the face fo the sun.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

I love pecans

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:covereyes...and some make "Christian" whatever paganism they DO like...

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

I think there’s another way to look at this.

We can take the position of being on the defense and try to weed out all pagan influence in our midst until life is a drab, boring, joyless, huddle on a church compound somewhere. Here’s the deal…DOMININON.

The truth is EVERY day belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, our pagan ancestors dedicated various days to their pagan deities. However, as Christians it is our responsibility to place all things under the Dominion of Jesus Christ. That means we have the responsibility to plunder pagan holidays and culture and redeem them into something with which to glorify Jesus Christ. Easter and Christmas are wonderful examples of this. We’ve taken what were originally pagan holidays. (Christmas actually isn’t so pagan if the actual history is closely studied, pagan celebrations started around this time under Arelius in an effort to unseat the Christian remembrances of Christ’s birth by resurrecting an ancient pagan holiday custom. And the December 25th date goes back to the Jewish custom of believing that the Messiah would be of “integral age”. But that’s another story.) So we’ve taken these days and stripped them of their pagan worship and only maintained relevant cultural and ethnic traditions redirected at glorifying Christ. And even now in our post-Christian culture we see that Christmas and Easter are days where even the most un-churched consider attending at least one service. For many the Christianization (or Dominion) of these holidays opens a door to show them eternal life at the very least once or twice a year. As heirs of creation we have every right to take what was the devil’s and redeem it to glorify Christ.

We need to stop being cowering cowards in this world, running from anything that doesn’t fit within our traditional religious paradigms. We need to take DOMINION. Halloween is coming…most Christians are going to hide in church or at home screeching against the “Devil’s Night”. NEWSFLASH….the devil doesn’t own Halloween. Even October 31st belongs to JESUS CHRIST. Therefore on that day we’re going to be fellowshipping some families in a fall family night where we eat, play games, party, laugh and just fellowship and love the Lord. Some religious snobs will criticize…but I say…let them criticize with their retreatist concepts. I’m not in retreat….I’m taking dominion of each and every day for Jesus. Yes, I’ll even claim Halloween for Jesus. If I were a pastor I’d not only have a fall family night but a “History Hayride” where saints of God get on a hayride that tours Christian History with seven stops. At each stop there would be a “ghost” of a famous martyr sharing their story and how their faith cost them their very lives. At the end they would stop at the church and the setting would be 10 years from now…during the future persecution. Fictional stories would be told of how world events turned against Christians and stories of saints in our congregation who gave all would be shared….and the emphasis would be….would you be willing to die for him? And if you’d be willing to lay down your life for him in the future…why not lay down your life now…die to the world, sin, and shame and live radically for Jesus? Bring in the altar call! Or a Christian Costume Party could be had where everyone had to dress up as historical figures in Christianity. Yes….I’d TAKE DOMINION and use it to glorify Jesus Christ.

By taking DOMINION, I believe it’s all Christ’s…Easter, Halloween (Actually should be called Holy Evening), Christmas,…you name it.

C’mon folks, stop being motivated by fear and think outside of the box. Take dominion and experience the absolute freedom, joy, and authority only found in Jesus Christ.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

I fear most of us have gotten into the habit of only looking at life in terms of what we’re against…and we’ve completely lost focus of our mission and what we’re for! I’m for taking back ALL that Satan has stolen and using it to glorify Jesus Christ. And yes, for you stuffy fearful religious types out there, that includes the Christmas Tree! I might even set aside a night to be with my boy this Fall and carve out a pumpkin with scenes like a cross, a dove, or even the hill side of Calvary! ;)

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

What? This is so backwards from anything in the Bible. God never told His people to take DOMINION of the practices and celebrations of the heathen around them; He commanded that His people separate themselves from such issues and to have no appearance of them. Anytime they did not, and chose instead to bring the’ unclean thing’ into the camp, God judged them.

Please, show where anyone in the New Testament did anything like what you wrote above.

Separating oneself from such practices isn't "cowardous," it’s about HOLINESS.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

What we're supposed to be against is SIN. What we're supposed to be for is Jesus. You're flipping this around to make it so that being for sin is being against Jesus.

Since when has taking a stand against pagan practices caused men and women to lose "focus" on their "mission" or on what their supposed to stand for? If anything, such a stance strengthens a saint’s resolve and purpose.

As far as “taking back ALL that satan has stolen,” you need to do a little more reading on that one. The Church NEVER used a decorated evergreen tree or a carved pumpkin in their worship to Jesus Christ. Where we do find these objects used is in pagan worship and celebration. So if you want to take anything away from satan, then work to take the Church BACK to what is WAS!

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

God wanted his people to separate themselves from the “sinful” practices of the heathen. Paul wrote….

Romans 14:1-23
{14:1} Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not
to doubtful disputations. {14:2} For one believeth that he
may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
{14:3} Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not;
and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for
God hath received him. {14:4} Who art thou that judgest
another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or
falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make
him stand. {14:5} One man esteemeth one day above
another: another esteemeth every day [alike.] Let every man
be fully persuaded in his own mind. {14:6} He that
regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that
regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it.] He
that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and
he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God
thanks. {14:7} For none of us liveth to himself, and no man
dieth to himself. {14:8} For whether we live, we live unto
the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord:
whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. {14:9}
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that
he might be Lord both of the dead and living. {14:10} But
why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at
nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the
judgment seat of Christ. {14:11} For it is written, [As] I
live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every
tongue shall confess to God. {14:12} So then every one of
us shall give account of himself to God. {14:13} Let us not
therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather,
that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in
[his] brother’s way. {14:14} I know, and am persuaded by
the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but
to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is]
unclean. {14:15} But if thy brother be grieved with [thy]
meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him
with thy meat, for whom Christ died. {14:16} Let not then
your good be evil spoken of: {14:17} For the kingdom of
God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace,
and joy in the Holy Ghost. {14:18} For he that in these
things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved
of men. {14:19} Let us therefore follow after the things
which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify
another. {14:20} For meat destroy not the work of God. All
things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who
eateth with offence. {14:21} [It is] good neither to eat flesh,
nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother
stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. {14:22} Hast
thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he
that condemneth not himself in that thing which he
alloweth. {14:23} And he that doubteth is damned if he eat,
because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of
faith is sin.

TO BE CONTINUED:

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

CONTINUED:

Also Paul wrote….

I Corinthians 8:1-13
{8:1} Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know
that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but
charity edifieth. {8:2} And if any man think that he
knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to
know. {8:3} But if any man love God, the same is known of
him. {8:4} As concerning therefore the eating of those
things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that
an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none
other God but one. {8:5} For though there be that are called
gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many,
and lords many,) {8:6} But to us [there is but] one God, the
Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one
Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
{8:7} Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge:
for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it]
as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being
weak is defiled. {8:8} But meat commendeth us not to God:
for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat
not, are we the worse. {8:9} But take heed lest by any
means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to
them that are weak. {8:10} For if any man see thee which
hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the
conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat
those things which are offered to idols; {8:11} And through
thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom
Christ died? {8:12} But when ye sin so against the brethren,
and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
{8:13} Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will
eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my
brother to offend.

Here’s the deal bro….we’re Gentiles, like the Romans. That means we have various ethnic holidays and observances. Unto me, because of my Irish heritage, I have customs, traditions, and days I might regard that you don’t if you’re of German or African heritage. But I regard these things days and customs as part of what I use to glorify God, redeeming my heritage. You don’t observe these things, again, unto the Lord. Maybe your faith is weak and I shouldn’t be so bold in my observances around you. Maybe if I eat meat sacrificed to idols or choose to carve a pumpkin, your faith and conscience is so weak you’d take offense and near stumble. If that is so bro, I’m truly sorry.

But here’s something I firmly believe….some brethren use this “I’m a weaker brother” garbage to CONTROL others. I don’t think you’re as weak or offended as you let on. For you, it’s a control issue. You want to be “holier” than your brethren and if they rejoice around a Christmas Tree on Christmas, enjoy a little eggnog, laugh, joke around, and cuddle up with their sweetheart (wife) in front of the fire place…you don’t know what to make of it.

Bro…I believe in separating myself from “sinful” things and practices. It’s not a sin to choose a day to remember Christ’s birth. It’s not a sin to choose a day to remember his death. It’s not a sin to choose a day to remember the deaths of martyrs who gave all to preserve the translation of the Bible we cherish. It’s not a sin to carve a silly little pumpkin with your little boy. It’s not a sin to put up a Christmas tree and lift that little guy to put the star on top. It’s not a sin to light candles and put them in the window. It’s not a sin to have a little eggnog with the wife after the kids are in bed, put presents under the tree, and have a little romance beneath the Christmas lights. My faith is STRONG. Fearsome sometimes. I don’t FEAR meat sacrificed to idols or given days or customs. Frankly, I TAKE them. Paul wrote this….

II Corinthians 10:3-5
{10:3} For though we walk in the flesh, we do not
war after the flesh: {10:4} (For the weapons of our warfare
[are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling
down of strong holds; ) {10:5} Casting down imaginations,
and every high thing that exalteth itself against the
knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every
thought to the obedience of Christ;

I like the following translations….

II Corinthians 10:3-5 (NIV)

3For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

II Corinthians 10:3-5 (AMP)

3For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons. 4For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds, 5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

II Corinthians 10:3-5 (NLT)
3 We are human, but we don’t wage war as humans do. 4 [a]We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. 5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

Bro…we are to tear down the strongholds of hell, every proud obstacle, philosophy, human reasoning, and capture their rebellious concepts and bring all things into obedience to CHRIST. It’s a DOMINION mandate.

We make no compromise with “sin”. But what we’re talking about here isn’t a “sin”. Bro…if you ever bowed down and worshipped a Christmas Tree with pagan mantras or hymns and just can’t resist it when you’re around one…you clearly should avoid putting a Christmas Tree up in your home.

Holiness is separating one’s self from the “sinful” ways of this world. Holiness doesn’t mean drinking water all the time because the world loves Pepsi.

*Side Note* You might find it interesting that coffee has roots in ancient pagan practices among the Arabs. C’mon bro…if it’s a matter of holiness…lay off the coffee too. lol

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

The problem with this belief is that it begs the question, Why stop with Christmas and Easter? Lets take “dominion” over the African customs as well. Lets redeem cutting of the flesh, only do it the palms and feet—to remember Christ’s wounds. Lets redeem worship fires, lets dance around fires remembering that Christ redeemed us from hell. Baby sacrifice? Let’s ritualize it with a fake sacrifice—remembering the sacrifice the Father made of Jesus Christ.
You understand the point? In practice, the “take dominion” theory does not hold up. At some point you have to stop "taking dominion."

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___________________________________________

You are so right Brother Burk, and I am afraid that we are now seeing some of this take place (in bold above) in the body as we speak. I love all my brothers and sisters in the Lord. I wish them blessings not judgment. However, the bible is clear that pagan practices bring judgment.

I got to go now, got to get everything ready for our Thursday night service.
God has really been blessing our little church and I just can't wait until to-nights service.

God bless you,

Sister Helen Febus

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Bro, that’s all silly and nothing but a “spirit of fear”. Right now as we speak African peoples are dancing in traditional garb once worn in their pagan culture, not dancing to honor their tribal spirits but to honor Christ. Yes, they are even playing instruments once used in those pagan celebrations and singing in their language. And yes…the cutting of the flesh is something that can be redeemed, not in practice, but in understanding. Every culture can testify that man can only be cleansed by the shedding of blood. Their ancestors lived in darkness shedding their own blood without a redeemer to shed his blood for them. But here’s the good news….the redeemer has come! They no longer have to walk in darkness shedding their own blood in the hopes that it will “somehow” purify them from their inner pain and sinfulness. They can rest now, knowing that Jesus shed his own blood for them and that they are now FREE! I pray they NEVER forget the darkness their ancestors practiced and how they mutilated themselves in vain efforts to please the creator. I pray whenever they hear of those practices they breathe a sigh of peace knowing that Jesus shed his own blood for them ONCE AND FOR ALL. It might even make a neat church sign logo, hands scared from cutting the flesh raised toward the cross. And as for worship fires, sure, raise that fire remembering how they longed for the fire of God’s presence in the days of their darkness…and testify around that fire that the real FIRE has FALLEN from HEAVEN upon them in the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST. If they want to dance a jig because of that fire baptism around that fire, I say go ahead! GET DOWN FOR JESUS. If they want to raise their children high in the congregation for the preacher to bless them with a prayer that brings life instead of a sacrificial knife that brings death, offering their child as an offering to God I say…PRAISE THE LORD!

Fake sacrifices and reenactments can be compared to Christmas pageants in an ethnic context. It might be alien to you and me….but it might speak so deeply to their hearts you and I have no way of knowing.

My first pastor would travel to Ethiopia on occasion. One day I was in his office and noticed that behind his desk in the corner was a wooden statue of an African tribal warrior. I asked him the story behind the statue. He said it was given to him by a tribal chieftain. He explained that it was a warrior spirit that was called upon to protect villages and crops. It was a gift to him because the chieftain said that my pastor had the spirit of a spirit warrior because he took a stand against Hell to protect villages, families, and the blessings God had given. My pastor cherished that gift until the day he died. Was it an idol? Technically yes. Was it a sin to own it and share its story? Nope.

I was talking to the Addingtons, missionaries to New Zealand. If I remember correctly they were serving the Maori people and they have this custom of distorting their faces by bugging out their eyes, bearing their teeth, sticking their tongues out, crouching, screaming, and dancing violently before battle, called a hacka. While Bro. Addington was preaching he touched on the subject of declaring war against Hell and fighting Satan through the power of Jesus Christ. He said it was terrifying, the entire group of men sitting in the front bounded to their feet and began a tribal hacka while cursing and binding Satan in the name of Jesus. Bro. Addington thought for a moment that they all had been possessed and were going to attack him! LOL But they ran around that meeting and it broke into a massive tribal hacka blowout service! And many Maori got the Holy Ghost. Give God praise!

Bro….you’re view of what’s “Christian” is filtered by what you know living in a Western culture heavily influenced by English customs, norms, and manners. I’m fully convinced that Heaven will see every tribe, nation, kindred and tongue praising God in their own language, with their own dance, with their own customs, with their own words of adoration, with their own music, and if our resurrected bodies ever wear anything other than white robes in eternity, I’m even convinced they’ll wear the garb of their culture in praise around the throne. I believe it will be a global praise of adoration that brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. Let the Irish river dance for Jesus, the Maori hacka for Jesus, let the Tutu throw spears after church for Jesus….

Oooo….I feel the Holy Ghost as I’m typing this….here’s a song running through my head right now…

There's a growing root of bitterness
In the world today
From the heart of Johannesburg
To the ghettos of L.A.

A swelling violent undertow
Has gripped the soul of man
But an integrated cry of hope
Echoes across the land

I hear my brothers say
Come, everybody, it's time to start
To let the love of Jesus
In your heart

Every tongue and every race
All of God's children seek His face

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord
Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord

People of promise take your place
Tell of His mercy and His grace
Lift up your voice to the sky
All of God's children testify

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord
Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord

We worship You because You are Lord and King
We magnify You because You are the One who reigns
We glorify You because You always remain the same

We worship You because You are Lord and King
We magnify You because You are the One who reigns
We glorify You because You always remain the same

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord
Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord

We got no time for hit and miss
The world is full of prejudice
You know we just ain't down with this, so come on now
Everybody priase the Lord

He inhabits our praises
Sin He erases
He wants to amaze us, so say this
Everybody praise the Lord

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord (x4)

Everybody, praise the Lord (x6)

(Everybody Praise the Lord, performed by Carmen)

Bro….you need to open up, expand your vision, allow God to be BIGGER, and stop living life on the run, stop living life in fear. Live life in victory, dominion, celebration, and worship unto the King of All Kings. If some had their way we’d be secluded Pentecostal monks in some monastery somewhere. Living for Jesus would be like living on some sanctified version of Gilligan’s Island; no phone, no light, no motor car, not a single luxury. Like Pentecostal ascetics, as primitive as can be. lol

Never.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

We are to discard the study and use of philosophy?

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Great question! ;)

I think the unlearned could get caught on that one. But here's what I think about it.

Should we discard the study and use of philosophy? .....

I don’t think so. Check this out, Paul himself had at least some knowledge of both pagan philosophy and literature, and he made much use of reasoning in personal evangelism. In Acts 17 we learn that while Paul was in Athens “he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there” (verse 17; NIV). On one occasion Paul spent time conversing and disputing with some of the Stoic and Epicurean philosophers (verse 18). Further, when it suited his purposes, Paul could quote freely (and quite accurately) from the writings of pagan poets. For example, in Acts 17:28 he cites with approval both the Cretan poet Epimenides and the Cilician poet Aratus, using them to make a valid theological point about the nature of God and man to the educated members of the Athenian Areopagus. Thus, I believe that we should at least be cautious before asserting that Paul was opposed to all philosophy and human wisdom. He obviously wasn’t. I think philosophy can become dangerous when it becomes a guiding principle over Scripture. This was what was happening among some Gnostics and even some other mystery cults.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Where'd everyone go? lol

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Please do not presume to know me. Trust me...I do not live my life in fear. I do not need to "expand" my vision to include heathen customs or to think that people practising them are Christian.

You talk of missionaries......I was taught by the greatest modern missionary for about 2 years, T.L. Osborn. He railed against missionaries who demanded western clothes and who force people to use a knife and fork. I get the concept...western does not mean Christian. But heathen practice does not mean Christian either, no matter how it is mixed with Jesus.

Truthfully, the "dominion" you write about has been practiced by Rome for centuries. To the point of idolatry, Indians in South America march into Catholic churches carrying their idol dolls in procession to the crucifix.

You imagine a "whole world" worship service in heaven....somehow I cannot imagine the Apostles doing fire dances and "lifting up babies" as a form of worship that harks back to infant sacrifice--a practice refered to in the Psalms and was abonimable.

You are fanciful in your thinking....but certainly not in the book. The Bible says, "Come out of her....." Not to take her and her customs and make them into a diluted worship. Sorry.....

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Good answer. I agree...you knew I would.:whistle Actually, we all practice philosophy......most not very well but we all have opinions on the "Big Three" questions of life: What is real, How do I know what is real, and what is morality.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Well then....I'm just a thinner becauthe I put up a Christhmath tree. lol

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

That about thums it up.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

I assure you...you keep non-Christian customs. Do you dress up for church? That's pagan. ;)

Name one heathen practice you presume people observe? For example, the Christmas tree. If a tree worshiping pagan were to see us with a Christmas tree in my home they'd wonder why we weren't worshiping it. None of us worship trees, they're a DECORATION. They'd probably be offended because I would have reduced what they think should be a "god" to a mere decoration. lol

Yes, Rome went to the extreme of idolatry. But one thing Rome did do that we're failing to do....they Christianized an entire continent. Personally, I'm Irish (with Dutch, German, and English thrown in for spice) and proud of it. I proud of me European heritage. I have no problem with maintaining European cultural traditions. Yes, some are Christianized versions of old ways....but that's the deal....they're no longer those old ways. I wouldn't even know the first thing to chant to a Christmas tree. Maybe you're tempted to idolatry by it. Frankly, I'm not. And I think you're just uptight and wanting to control everyone or to be seen as holier than those of us who observe cultural holidays. Well, if that's will help you feel better, I'll say it....

You're more holy than me.

Now, I'm going to pick out a pumpkin to carve out with my little boy here in a few weeks.

Bro...the Apostles wouldn't "fire dance" they were Jews. Now, I don't doubt some of their pagan converts kept certain days and customs that they didn't...else Paul wouldn't have addressed that in the book of Romans. Paul's point was that whatever we do, as long as it's not "sin"...do it unto the Lord.

Bro....as long as a baby isn't being sacrificed...it's not child sacrifice. The background decor will all be cultural. I'm not bothered by it. Now...throw the baby in the fire and I'll most likely want to shoot someone. (Didn't say that I would for sure....but I sure would want to.)

I think the spiritual concepts presented here are paranoid, view life as being under siege, and are frankly....BORING. Remind me never to bring someone to a church that thinks like this, I don't want them to think that all Apostolics are boring people.

The kingdom of God isn't meat, drink, holidays, or decorations....it's righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Now....this Christmas I'm going to eat meat traditionally sacrificed to idols, put up a tree, decorate the fire place, and have a glass of eggnog with the the misses after the little one's in bed...maybe some are weak in faith and will be offended. If that's the case, they'd best not visit our home. :)

Love, peace, and chicken grease....

Amen.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Let the record indicate that you find the "spiritual" (not to mention Biblical) concepts of “Come out of her my people” as being “paranoid" and "view life as being under siege” and “boring.” Reminder, do not bring someone to an Apostolic church who believes in seperation and holiness, you would not want them to get bored. Take them to a church that believes in "any way you want" to worship. Where they will be happy and all will get along and the joy of the Lord will give them goose bumps...singing jumping and praising...doing as they please...as long as they are happy and above all not bored.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

there is nothing wrong with appropriating so-called pagan rituals and such into worship to the true God. i think the same principle applies here as does eating meat offered to idols did in corinth. just as long as we don't incorporate pagan ideas and ungodly concepts into our theology (something we've done too much of frankly). in fact, it's my opinion that if you don't attempt to contextualize the gospel that you are not being obedient to matt 28:18.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Wrong, again!

I'm not "gentile," I'm a Christian. See, that's your problem. You still see race as the issue. What you should be seeing is GRACE. Grace is not unmerited favor, but is favor that gives opportunity for a man or woman to do as they ought. When a person starts on a faulty foundation, the doctrine they build always slants worse than the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Your premise here, my dear brother, is tilting all over the place.

Maybe this will help set it straight?

Ephesians 2:11-19
(11) Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES IN THE FLESH, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
(12) That AT THAT TIME ye were without Christ, being ALIENS from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(13) BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off ARE MADE NIGH by the blood of Christ.
(14) For he is our peace, who hath MADE BOTH ONE, and hath BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;
(15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
(16) And that he might RECONCILE BOTH unto God in one body by the cross, HAVING SLAIN THE ENMITY thereby:
(17) And came and preached peace to you which WERE AFAR OFF, and to them that WERE NIGH.
(18) For through him WE BOTH have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
(19) NOW THEREFORE ye are NO MORE strangers and foreigners, but FELLOW CITIZENS with the saints, and of the household of God;

The issue is, in Christ, there is no Jewish, Samaritan, gentile, German, African, or whatever heritage (See Gal 3:26-28). A Christian’s heritage comes from the Lord. That’s why we’re “Born Again,” and because so, “ALL things old are passed away….”

Who said I am offended? What you believe or do not believe affects me not one iota.

Aquila, I would think you’re bigger than this.

First, where is it about me wanting to control anything? This is a FORUM. It is designed to talk back and forth about whatever subject is going on at the time. I did not start this thread. I also did not post anything here before you did. The problem you’re having is that you have no scripture for your post and are therefore trying—very weakly—to divert the blame to me.

Second, me wanting to be “holier” than someone else is IMPOSSIBLE!! You are again building on another of your faulty foundations. Look at this:

(1 Peter 1:15) But AS HE which hath called you is holy, SO BE YE holy in all manner of conversation;

Holiness is measured by how a man or woman compares to Jesus Christ, not by how they compare to another person. So again, what another person believes or doesn’t believe has NO affect on me.

You said: “if they rejoice around a Christmas Tree on Christmas, enjoy a little eggnog, laugh, joke around, and cuddle up with their sweetheart (wife) in front of the fire place…you don’t know what to make of it.” This just shows you have no idea what this subject is even about. If you did, you would not be thinking this way. Try rereading the title of the thread for a clue….

Wow, you don’t know the difference between Christmas and Passover? Again, faulty foundation, faulty doctrine.

Aquila, Passover is a biblically recognized day. There is MUCH evidence as to it being the day on which Jesus was crucified. But in comparison, December 25th has absolutely NO biblical evidence whatsoever for being the day of Jesus’ birth. What we do find overwhelming evidence for December 25th being the pagan celebration for Winter Solace. The Winter Solace is the day in which pagans recognize the "SUN" is "reBORN." It was a day that was recognized almost worldwide to worship various solar gods. Aquila, you really don’t know this?

I agree wholeheartedly that remembering Jesus birth is not a sin. But would you please tell me what a decorated evergreen tree, kissing under mistletoe, a Yule Log, or a weight-challenged white-bearded man in a red-suited has to do with Jesus’ birth? What you need to realize, which evidently you do not, is that remembering Jesus’ birth is one thing, but to do so by giving spiritual significance to pagan practices is a perversion of any such remembrance. Jesus stood against false doctrine and against idolatry. So how does it honor Him to incorporate both into a supposed celebration of His birth?

Sounds great, so where’s the beef?

Aquila, shouting flowery statements while pounding your chest doesn’t make what you’re saying any truer. If you were sincere, you would not want to see any paganism in the church…none!

See, there you go; if you haven’t BOWED or WORSHIPPED the tree, then it’s okay. Hmmm… what about an idol? If you haven’t bowed or worshipped a brass Buddha, or a stone statue of Basal, or a depiction of Mary, would those also be okay to set-out in remembrance of Jesus?

But the bigger picture is that you make a pagan practice sacred the second you make it a central part of your remembrance of or celebration of Jesus. Once the tree, wreath, mistletoe, and Santa become “MUST HAVE’S,” then they are no longer just passive decorations. That is the danger. Men incorporate such images and make them part of their sacred worship to God. Brother, that is paganism to the core.

Cute. But downplaying the issue with trivialities does not diminish the true facts. Aquila, why did prophets speak against God's people intermingling with the paganism around them? Why did God strike down men and women for partaking in pagan practices? Why, if you're correct, did He change His opinion about mixing His people with such practices?

I am a tea drinker, actually. But I know of no one that has to have coffee to celebrate or remember Jesus. That is why such arguments, though maybe seen as cute, are really just a diversion from the actual subject.







Also, ditch the Gene Edwards’ books on pagan practices of the church. He lists everything the church does as pagan, even having men working in ministry. But he never explains how that excludes him. After all, he travels the world teaching churches how not to have teachers teaching them doctrine. Sounds confusing to me…and we know who the author of that is….

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

:iagree

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

So God told his people to learn not the ways of the heathen and in the NT in the context of idolatry from those outside of the church, we are told to come out from among them and be ye separate.

However, the false church turns to "Christianity" but does not want to give up its pagan ways, so "covers it up" with some "Christian" pixy dust.

And later on when the truth comes out, some in Christianity are so entangled in "Christian" tradition, that they want to come up with rationalizations and justifications so that they don't have to give them up.

Mithra Worship

1. Mithra - Bee represented Logos or Mithra in paganism, originally worshipped by lighting candles made of bee's wax. (Wynne-Tyson pp. 5-7, Hislop pp. 194-195)
2. In Mithra worship initiates went through what is called the 12 tortures of Mithra. (Wynne-Tyson pp 25,42,58, 114 ,186
3. Mithra's birthday was celebrated on December 25
4. Mithra depicted In a chariot riding across the sky (imitation of the sun) with twelve horses.
5. Mithra - Main day of worship Sunday ( Wynne-Tyson p 102)
6. Mithra communion meal was eaten during worship
7. Mithra - Priests referred to as Father and head priest as Father of Fathers (Wynne-Tyson p 41)
8. Called Mithra Logos & second person of the Zorastrian trinity (Paine pp 80-82)
9. Mithra - Worshipped Cybele as the Mother of Mithra & Queen of Heaven (Wynne-Tyson pp 192-198)
10. Mithra worshipped in the form of a fir tree (Wynne-Tyson pp. 54-55)
11. Mithra Priests wore a cap called Mitre which is a derivation of Mithra (Wynne-Tyson p. 66)
12. Mithra - The cross or sword was very central in Mithra worship (Wynne-Tyson p. 66)
13. Mithra - Round wafer used in communion represented the sun (Hislop pp. 161-163, Wynne-Tyson p 24f

Compare the above to...

Catholicism

1. Catholicism - ''The waxen candles of the altars of the Romish Church therefore keep their maker, Dubar, the Bee or the Word, constantly before the attention of the faithful." Wynne-Tyson p7)
2. In Catholicism we see In most churches the 12 stations or tortures of the cross (l3th and 14th stations post-mortem).
3. Catholic tradition says Christ was born on December 25.
4. Saint Nicholas riding across the sky with sleigh & 12 reindeer
5. Catholic Main day of worship Sunday
6. Catholic Great significance attached to communion.
7. Catholic Priests referred to as Father and Pope as Father of Fathers
8. Catholics Call Jesus Logos & second person of the Catholic Trinity
9. Catholics Worship Mary as the Mother of God and the Queen of Heaven
10. Catholic Christmas tree of Christianity
11. Catholic Pope and Bishops wear cap called Mitre named after Mithra (Hislop pp 217,218)
12. Catholic Christ depicted hanging from the cross (or sword) of Mithra with a crown of thorns or halo over His head. (Halo represents Sun-god) (Wynne-Tyson p 66)
13. Catholic Round wafer used in communion In Catholic Church I H S on the wafer to a pagan would mean lsis, Horus, Seb (or the Mother, the Child & the Father of the Gods)--the Egyptian trinity. Hislop p. 164)

God and his people had dominion in the OT as well, but that didn't stop God from telling his people to "learn not the ways of the heathen".

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Bro....my wife and I came out of a UC church and my wife even wore a head covering until we left. Now...today we attend a UPCI church that discourages TV, women DON'T wear pants, they are admonished to wear skirts or dresses below the knee, no sleeves above the elbow, women don't cut the hair, and men don't wear facial hair. The only jewelry allowed must be functional, such as a wedding band and/or a watch. Bro....we are very conservative.

Now when it comes to Holidays Paul wrote....

Romans 14:5-6
{14:5} One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike.] Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. {14:6} He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it.]

He wrote that to Christians in ROME. Rome was a very "international" city and many had customs and days observed for various reasons. We are not to judge one another in these things like you're doing. If you wish to abstain from all holidays...be my guest. I think you're boring... but I don't think you're in trouble with God over it.

You never answered my question...do you "dress up" for church? Do you know where this "tradition" came from?

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

We're dealing with a weaker brother who would be very upset if we ate meat sacrificed to idols. We have to approach him with love and never violate his conscience if in his presence. But, we're also not to allow him to use his weakness to bully or lord his convictions over us.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Bro...I never said any of these traditions are "must haves". Nor are they central to remembering or celebrating Jesus. In fact we remember and celebrate Jesus every day of the year. I view holidays largely as fun and festivities. I don't think a Christmas tree is an absolute necessity, nor do I see Easter Eggs or Easter Baskets as a necessity. Fun and festive? Yes. Necessary? No. Central? No.

See, here's where you're thinking is all wrong...you assume because my family has fun with these things, we make them central. Bro....we've had lean holidays where we didn't even put up a tree and had few gifts...and we were still blessed with the reality of Jesus. So please....get off your high horse and relax. I'm not pagan. I don't worship a tree. I don't worship a Bunny.

And you might find this interesting, but the original "St. Nicholas", Bishop of Myra, may have been a Oneness believer. If you look at the records he was recorded as having attended Nicea. The Bishop of Myra got into a physical confrontation with Arius when Arius denied that Jesus was God. He attended the rest of the meetings...but on the final list of attendees who affirmed the Trinity...his name is missing. So either the records are incomplete....or Nicholas believed that Jesus was God...but not in the sense the Trinitarians envisioned it. Since he confronted Arius, he wasn't an Arian. That leaves one school of theology popular at the time....Modalism.

Though a lot of legend surrounds the man, the study of Nicholas is an interesting study really.

Oh...and did you know that the idea that Christ's birth was on the 25th of December is rooted in an ancient Jewish tradition? I'll tell you more if you're interested.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Bro....I'm not Catholic. I'd prefer the Pope on a rope.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

We are to separate ourselves from the "sinful" ways of this world. Putting up a seasonal decoration isn't a sin.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Good Friend, Perhaps OldPath would not have bothered to write you such a lenghty and indepth comparsion of RC and Mitherism if you did not sound so much like a romanist?

Can you consider why you would have to respond to someone with, "I'm not Catholic." It is because you are advocating the same missionary practices of mixing heathenism/paganisim that Rome has done for centuries with the true worship of Jesus Christ. You sound like a Catholic!

Further, you write that you would like to see the "pope on a rope." What this has to say about you I am not sure. But I find the remark disgusting and distastful. Even if you meant it in jest, it is a bad joke. But if you are serious then you need spiritual help and counseling, perhaps medication. Sorry....

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Jeremiah would disagree with you.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

I posted that old article but I do not agree with some of the conclusions in it.

Our children were raised in a Oneness Pentecostal Church. They heard Bible stories at home and prayed with their parents at bed time.

On Halloween they put on costumes and went out in the neighborhood for trick or treat. They went out accompanied by one parent while the other parent stayed home and gave out candy. We had not problem if one was dressed like a witch or one was dressed like a ghost. Witches and demons have no authority over us. We're protected by the blood of Jesus and by His name. We have authority over the works of darkness. We also carved pumpkins but never became demonized.

At Christmas time they heard about Santa Claus when they were small and later realized that there really is a Santa Clause but he is not a literal little fat man in a red suit. Instead he is "the spirit of Christmas" a fun figure we talk about and see in the attitude of love and benevolence in people at that time of the year. When they realized Santa wasn't a real person they didn't doubt whether Jesus was real or not. They joined in talking about Santa with younger relatives and perpetuated a fun fantasy.

At Easter we stayed home. It was a time to spend with family. We never had money to buy new clothes and join in the fashion parade at the local Apostolic Church. People showed up who never darkened the door of the church for the rest of the year. We didn't know them and they didn't know us. A day or so before Easter we dyed eggs together. At least one egg would come out of the dye with the message "He is risen" on it. Easter morning we shared in a family Easter basket filled with way too much candy to be healthy. We hunted for eggs in the house because it was usually too wet or too cold to do it outside. Some years we were even able to all go out to eat which was a rare treat at that time with 5 children and only one parent working and one staying home with the children.

To us, Christmas, Easter, 4th of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, etc. were not pagan but part of our American and family culture. Sure lots of stuff that was part of the holiday celebration came from paganism but you can hardly separate that out of our culture. The days of our week are named after the sun god, the moon god, Wodon, Saturn, etc. Some of our months are named after gods and pagan rulers. But we still use calendars with Sunday through Saturday and with January through December.

I think some of us just need to lighten up and not be looking for a devil under every rock and behind each tree. This is the day that the Lord hath made. And every day is the day that the Lord hath made. Let us rejoice and be glad in each day.

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

First you said...

And a few posts later you said...

What "season" are you referring to, Aquila?

You first claimed Christmas was all about remembering Jesus' birthday. You then listed all the "traditional" things that you enjoy doing for Christmas, like the tree, egg nog, and such. Then when I said it is paganism when you include such things into celebrating Jesus, you claimed you did not make them central. Hmmm... Now, you're calling them "seasonal decorations"?? And THAT is not making them central to your 'seasonal' celebration of Jesus' birth?? Oh, okay.... :crazy

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Ah, the old "Jeremiah tree" of Jeremiah chapter 10.

I used to belong to an organization called The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith. Our Presiding Bishop was against lots of stuff. Some of the preachers used Jeremiah chapter 10 to preach against Christmas trees.

One family in which the Dad and at least one son were preachers lived in SE Kentucky. Folks down there did not go to a lot and buy a tree. They went out into the woods and cut one. One year some of the family members decided they wanted a Christmas tree that year and went out and cut one and brought it home. Their Dad was agin' it. He told them they were heatherns (that's how some say it in Kentucky). One son who was a preacher clearly showed his father how Jeremiah chapter 10 did not apply to them. He pointed out verse 3 where it says, "...one cutteth a tree out of the forest..." He said, "See, Daddy, it says here that ONE cutteth a tree out of the forest. We didn't have just one person go get that tree. There were several of us."

Re: Paganism in Christianity
 

Good Brother,

Your post illustrates that Aquila is inconsistant, I have found the same thing in his posts with me. I think this is the case of someone deliberatly sticking their head in the sand and continuing to argue with no regard, not speaking from core values but lenghty ramblings that in the end say nothing and make no sense.