Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgiveness
 

????
Are you just forgiven? Or are you also spiritually transformed or changed?

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Converted...justified....not born again but made worthy by the imputation of grace to enter in to the completeness of the New Birth...yes there is a spiritual transference of grace.

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Im asking if a person is spiritually changed, different, converted just because their sins are forgiven

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

You know, Christ came to make it easy for all of mankind, from the simple-mided to the most educated. You can get lost in the depths of some of these words and their meanings...but the gospel is simple...really.

PETER MADE IT VERY CLEAR WHAT WE HAD TO DO TO BE SAVED:
1. REPENT [IF YOU TRULY REPENT IT TRANSFORMS YOUR LIFE - IT CHANGES YOU]
2. BE BAPITZED IN JESUS NAME FOR THE REMISSION OF THOSE SINS YOU JUST REPENTED OVER.
3. YOU SHALL RECEIVE HIS SPIRIT - THE HOLY SPIRIT/HOLY GHOST

AT THE POINT YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST AND HIS WORD..YOU WILL OBEY AND BE TRANSFORMED.

BLESSINGS,
RHONI

MARK 16:16
JOHN 3:3,5
ACTS 2:38

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Of course a change takes at repentance,because if you are truly sorry for being involved in sin you have made a change in your mind and lifestyle.
Of you are commanded to be buried in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost after repentance.
The Holy Ghost gives you the power to honor your commitment to Christ,you made at repentance.

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

as i prob won't be back on here for a couple of days i don't want to be drawn too deeply into this discussion. but, i'll do a drive-by and leave my opinion, for whatever it's worth.

we are changed at forgiveness in the sense that spiritually we are born again and our standing with God is changed from a negative to a positive one. The Holy Spirit then helps us begin the life-long process of spiritual/worldview/mental/behavioral transformation as long we continue to learn about Christ and cooperate with Him as he makes us more like him. For some this process is steady and drastic changes take place as they stay focused on 'putting on Christ'. For others it is a slow process because they don't focus on discipleship, often times getting bogged down in religion.

so i would say yes, we are changed greatly at forgiveness as we have repented (switched sides, done a spiritual about face). that's a huge change of heart, and it's a spiritual one as we can only do this through coaxing and provision of Christ. from there...well, that remains to be seen.

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Yes there is a transformation at forgiveness , but it is not the transformation mentioned in Rom 12:2, for that occurs long after salvation begins.

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Are you saying that we are born again as in the new birth...if so that is not true....we are not born again until we are born of the Water and Spirit....we are justified, and there is a conversion experiance, our minds have been changed....but this enables us to be born again because it changes the way God sees us...he has covered us in His rightouesness and we are made worthy of the New Birth.

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Prax, no one has posted the usual scriptures on this subject yet. When you read and work thru all of them, IMO I think the scriptures are clear "transformation" and/or "santification" is both a definate and immediate work, and at the same to progressive. It is clear to anyone that a new convert changes at salvation grows closer to God being made "more perfect."

I think on this question it is not an either or, but a "both."

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

For me it was about the biggest change that took place. I turned my life around and turned my mind around at that time. The HG was the added bonus. Once I made the choice to change I changed. The HG was great and I felt wonderful afterwards, but to me the greater changed happened once I was saved (by accepting Jesus)

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Glad you had a great experiance....but your view of salvation by accepting Christ is erronoeous....no salvation without the New Birth Acts 2:38 experiance...and the HG is not an added bonus, it is the spirit that will quicken your mortal body.

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Please, JT was not writing a white paper on salvation. He was just commenting about the "change."

You cannot from one simple comment judge his "view of salvation."

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Thanks for your concern about my view, but this is a subject well visited on this forum. You may reread most of my posts and see where I am coming from....been in the oneness church for 23 yrs incase you care to know. I been around the block and heard it all.


Thanks for standing up for me bro. But he had me pegged....you know the truth on how I believe too. Thanks!

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Yeah, to put it in terms used here....I am just tired of the 3 steppers and 1 steppers same old arguments. I think some 3 stepper people scan read every post looking for an opportunity to correct those of us they think are so full of "error."

"Come on out, brother, you're free"
 

"Come on out, brother, you're free"

With those words, an American soldier was freed from years in a German POW camp. He was hospitalized where compassionate doctors and nurses cared for him. He was fed foods that he had forgotten, was given the chance to exchange his filthy and ragged prison garb for clean and freshly pressed GI uniforms. He was then flown to England where he saw Buckingham Palace, the Thames River and London Bridge. He was taken to Paris where he saw the Effil Tower. Then, he was flown across the Atlantic where the pilot made a pass over the Statue of Liberty. They flew next over Washington DC where he saw the White House, the Washington Mounument, and the US Capitol.

Then, the plane landed in his home town, where he saw the faces he thought he would never see again: his mother, his wife and children, his friends.

Years later, the aging ex-POW was asked at what moment did he really feel that he was free. Was it the hospital? The Thames River? The Statue of Liberty? He thought for a minute then he answered..." No...all those things just represent freedom. I knew I was free when I heard that voice of a fellow GI: 'Come on out, brother, you're free'.

Jesus said, "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." Jhn 8:36 When I repented of my sins I was freed from the POW camp of a life without God. He changed me. No longer a prisoner. No longer a slave. I was free to follow Him. When He forgave my sin at the altar of repentance, I became a new creature in Christ.

We can't help but be transformed when we hear the Master say: " Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." Jhn 8:11

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

well, i guess that's a debate for the 1 vs. 3 step 'plan' of salvation isse.

i'm a 'one-stepper' partially because the argument you present makes no sense. if you are justified you are converted. if your mind is changed you are born again. if we are covered by his righteousness we are saved. to say otherwise introduces nuances not found in scripture.

ok. that's all for me. i honestly cant' take the time to get into all this. it's been rehashed ad nausem.

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

YOU making a change in your mind does not equal necessarily a SPIRITUAL transformation. Only God can do that. Even atheists and pagans and whoever can make a change in their mind

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Where does the bible say that forgiveness of sins makes for a spiritual change...Im talking a transformation of our nature, not a change of mind or direction or will...that's OUR part...Im talking about HIS part

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

2Cr 5:15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

I believe that there is a spiritual transformation/change any time we connect with God. How can someone be in the presence of God and not be changed?

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

What did Peter write, "....by these divine promises we are made partakers of the divine nature...." Sounds to me like...the point of receiving salvation, but as we gain knowledge of the promises the divine nature is more and more manifest. Your thoughts?

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Read Job. Satan appeared in His Presence

How about King Saul?

The question here though to me is how do you know you are connected with God? God forgives your sins does not require Him to "be connected" with you...I don't need to connect with someone that offended me in order to forgive them

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

Where does he say "at the moment your sins are forgiven" though?

My point is, as Mich asked...having your sins forgiven does not require God to fill you with His Spirit...It can happen. But what is happening? He is forgiving or wiping our debt out. Our "record" is cleaned, but that does not necessarily mean we receive His Divine nature

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

How do we ask God to forgive our sins without being in his presence? Or do you not believe that one has to ask?

Re: Is there a Spiritual Transformation at forgive
 

U, I agree that the fighting amongst the 1 steppers and 3 steppers are too much. I know what I believe and others know what they believe. I am sure we are partly right and partly wrong. I am sure they are partly right and partly wrong.

Deadeye, it is foolishness for either to declare that they know it all. The true erronious doctrine is that one is saved by anything other than the grace of God. Period.