Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Part 1

I'd like to know, how many African Americans and Latino's are on the General board of the United Pentecostal Church. (names and churches they pastor please) Or for that matter, how many hold high ranks within the United Pentecostal Church Intl. Why I ask? Well, for one, all of my friends that are outside the organization tell me that there are almost NONE. With that in mind, I'd like to see if they are correct in their assumtions. If it is true, I'd like to know what are plans does the United Pentecostal Church have to make the organization more racially diverse here in the United States (besides having black evangelism AND spanish daughter works).

Part 2
Below is a sample article that I just read about this issue. What are your thoughts please.

A significant migration of Black Christians from the traditional Black-led Pentecostal churches to White-led Pentecostal churches has been occurring, leading to some of those becoming Black-majority churches. The reasons for this have not been properly researched as yet, but from conversations between this writer and some individuals who have made the switch it is clear that many of these are Black professionals and socio-economic climbers who whilst embracing the Pentecostal impulse, desire a more structured church and worship life than is the case in some Black-led Pentecostal churches. Indeed, there is now a sharp divide between sophisticated and professionally run, as against working class and orally inclined, Black Pentecostal churches in Britain.

Such migrations do not easily lend themselves to good relationships between Pentecostal members, leaders, and organisations. Particularly as it can easily be argued that the class difference that may have, at least in part, occasioned the divide between Black and White Pentecostals in the past, is now at work dividing Black Pentecostals between themselves and siphoning off the Black professional who now feel more at home in a White Pentecostal environment. Interestingly, these Black professionals are rarely given in White Pentecostal churches the leadership prominence they would generally receive in Black Pentecostal ones, yet they appear willing to migrate in growing numbers and pay the price of simply being followers. The need for Black and White Pentecostal leaders to engage is greater than ever, before followership overwhelms leadership with migration patterns that do not foster the unity of the spirit. Jesus’ prayer that his church be ‘one, that the world may believe’ (John 17) requires that the Church in all its diversity actively plays its part in bringing about a true oikoumene i.e. reconciling the whole inhabited earth in becoming the living household (oikos) of God. In this task the church, excluded and beaten down by the world, finds its rightful place as the world’s salt and light. This working together of those called out by God, yet rejected by the world, is for the good of the inhabitants of the earth and the glory of God. However, it cannot be done without the reconciliation of the body of Christ to itself in love and respect. Sharing an understanding of the Holy Spirit that powers and empowers the church is a good starting point.

Source: http://www.blacknet.co.uk/UK/UK/A_Ca...le_church.html

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

This is an interesting question/topic. I would say that your friends are correct in their assumptions. I don't think there are any specific plans to make the leadership and constituency of the UPC more diverse, besides the existing Spanish, Black Evangelism, and Multicultural Ministries departments.

I believe there are a couple of African-Americans on the General Board of the
UPC:

Rev. Arthur Naylor - New Jersey Metro District Superintendant
Pastor of First Pentecostal Prayer of Faith http://www.1stpentecostal.org/ -
Hamilton Square, NJ

Rev. Arthur Thomas - New York Metro District Superintendant
Pastor of Oneness Rehoboth Apostolic Church http://oracministries.org/ - Mount Vernon, NY

The following are some well known African American Pastors in the UPC:

Alonzo Terry (also director of Black Evangelism http://www.blackevangelism.com. Not sure if this a general board post. I believe it falls under Home Missions.)
Solid Rock UPC http://www.solidrockupc.com/ Atlanta (College Park), GA

Granville McKenzie Faith Sanctuary http://www.faithsanctuary.com/ - Toronto, Ontario Canada

Mike Mitchell New Life Tabernacle Church http://www.newlifetabernaclechurch.com/ - Brooklyn, NY

Chester Mitchell Capital Community Church http://www.capitalcommunity.org/ - Ashburn, VA

Sam Emory Apostolic Tabernacle Church http://www.upcmerced.com/ - Merced, CA

Daniel Davy New Life Tabernacle UPC http://www.newlifetabernacleupc.org/ - Tampa, FL

An African American that might have been on the General Board as General Youth President if he were eligible to run is Wayne Francis. He would have no doubt been elected at the past General Conference . He is still the Promotions Director for the General Youth Division, a position not on the General Board though.

As far as Latinos on the general board, I can't say for certain. If you look at
the names of the district superintendents on this listing http://wec.upci.org/Districts/, there does not appear to be any Latinos.

I am not sure if the national Spanish Ministries director position is a general
board post, or if it is under the Home Missions Division. The national director
is Elias Limones who Pastors The Pentecostals of the Bay Area in Pittsburgh, CA http://www.pentecostales.org

In regards to the excerpt of the article you posted and specifically to this
line "Black professionals are rarely given in White Pentecostal churches the
leadership prominence they would generally receive in Black Pentecostal ones" I would say that this depends on the the church and Pastor. I know in some places, minorities can only go so far.

I would also say that of the African-American Pastors I mentioned above,
African-Americans would comprise 50%-60% or greater of their church memberships.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Until 1924 the PAW was racially mixed. When the great divide came, it more or less stayed that way for a long time.

I can remember in my youth our pastor at the time advising folks that they might feel more 'comfortable' attending Bethlehem Temple. He was a good man and meant no harm, but that was the mindset of the day.

Of course this would never be done today as most churches welcome diversity. However, certain dynamics are hard to change. I do NOT think it is intentional, and I don't think you were implying that.

Your question is a good one...as for organizational "plans" to be racially diverse in leadership, I am not sure they have them...

One more thing...I understand the questions by your friends. When I left the UPCI and affiliated with a COOLJC assembly, my family and friends were wondering how long it would last...one White woman in an all Black congregation.

But I believed it was the will of God for me then, and know it was today. It was a 24 year membership with a heart alliance that is as strong now as when I was there.

I said that to say, people will always ask and wonder when it comes to racial matters...I wish it weren't so, but it is. But all we can do is pray that the powers that be set men and women in place who are clean before God, have a determination to see the Gospel presented to all, and have the best interest at heart for all.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

YES LORD! I love the above post. Keep them coming. You know, its funny, if I were talking about beards and skirt lenghts this thread would have already had 10+ pages. Its sad that in 8 hours only 2 replys have been given which to me shows that the majority of the posters on this site are either a) not willing to discuss this matter or b) truly cant answer the questions that have been presented. (I wonder why......I wonder if the majority of the posters even care). But you know what, this IS a good topic and both black, white and latino (as well as other nationalities) should be eager to talk about this so that we can spread DIVERSITY through our own local congregations.

I'll give it some more time since I did post this message late on a Saturday night. I am sure more people have things to say on this subject, but for those who have answered the question thus far, THANK YOU!

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

The split beginning at the Southern Conference that caused to racial divide in Oneness Pentecostalism is an ugly blot on our history. It killed Bishop Haywood he never got over it. It was I personally belief a one of the greatest injustices in our history that has never really been healed and hurt both groups.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Beards and skirt lengths are subjective. People can argue what the scriptures mean all day long, and no one can prove they're right.

However, the topic of blacks and hispanics in leadership is a very "proveable" question, and I suspect that many are uncomfortable with the answer.

MinisterWD did a great job of listing the diversity in the General Board by minister and church, so at this point, not sure there's much more to say....

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

There probably isn't very many...at the moment. The UPC has been by and large a mostly white organization like the Apostolic Assemblies is a mostly Hispanic and the PAW a mostly African American one. The UPC however does have a number of AA and HA membership and even pastors. I'd say it's past time we have more AA and HA leadership too....Maybe Obama is up for the task? "YES WE CAN!!!":ursofunny

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

In the kingdom of God why does it matter if we are black, white, red, purple, green? What difference does it make if the board is white, black, or mixed?
God is no respecter of persons so it doesn't really matter. We are not to be like the government and build in predjudices. We are not to look at the color of the skin. Boards are a man made thing anyway.

:snapout

Lets not worry over who how many are black or brown or white and lets just serve God and do what we can to win the lost no matter the color.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

The UPC basically "kicked" the blacks out as Bro. Epley hinted on. I have read the history and it is one that is not pretty at all. The UPCI IS primarily a white organization and the leadership basically reflects its membership. Barb is absolutely correct. I remember years ago after witnessing to a guy I worked with who came to our church and got baptized. My pastor actually told the guy that he may be more comfortable at the PAW church in my hearing. I am ashamed that ever happened.

Over the past few years, NLC has seen an increase in African-Americans and our church is probably the most racially diverse church in our city. We have racially mixed couples and the diversity makes so many different folks feel comfortable. Our church looks a lot like what heaven will be! :D

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

In the UPC church I used to attend, the same thing happned MOW. They were told that they might be more comfortable in a black church.

TRANSLATION: Us whites will be more comfortable with you in a black church.

Interracial dating was strongly discouraged, the "scripture" used was birds of a feather flock together.

It is a shameful part of our history....It is history now, right?

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Well, I just married two of our ordained ministers kids to each other this Summer. One was white and the other was black. I lost a family who have been at NLC for probably 25-30 yrs who were fit to be tied that I would marry this couple. They went back to the UPC in a huff.

Anyone who leaves over an issue like, I don't EVER want to see back unless they get delivered from that ungodly prejudiced spirit. I mean, of all the "crimes" I could have committed as pastor, that one was unforgivable.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

MOW...how could you...j/k

Did'nt God have one of his white prophets mary a black woman in the OT

Was'nt it Hosea or someone??

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Yeah, it was some obscure prophet whose was Moses! His wife was Ethiopian and people, like his brother and sister didn't like it. :D

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Awww that was it. My brain locked up and I couldn't remember who it was.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I think it's a valid question, and a valid issue for discussion. You're saying race shouldnt matter, but in the real world it has been a factor, and that's the problem.

For too long, the leadership of the UPC has been a good ol boy network, and well-qualified men of color have been passed over for certain leadership positions because they were not one of the good ol' boys.

I'm not saying it's all been because of race or prejudice. A lot of it has to do with family and friend connections, professional/ministerial networking, "who you know", etc. But we'd be kidding ourselves if we were to claim that race was not a factor. The fact is, those at the top of an organiziation are the gatekeepers as to who else they will allow to join them in the upper echelons of the organization; and it is a fact of human nature that people are quite often "more comfortable" with people whose race or background is similar to theirs.

It's natural that the leadership of an organization will over time reflect the racial makeup of the organization. However, that has not been the case in the UPCI, and there are many people both in and out of the UPC who see that as problematic (and understandably so, in my view.).

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

The national spanish ministries director is General Board.
Black Evangelism also is represented by it's director at the General Board.
Granville MacKenzie is Executive Presbyter for Canada, meaning that he not only is on the General Board but is also on the Executive Board.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

What is the ratio, white to black?

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

TR, from my observations, it is often not the actual gatekeepers that have a problem opening up the upper echelon, but often they have been concerned about how certain of their constituents may respond. Thankfully, a lot of that is dying out. I once had a person tell me that there are only two things you can do with a hardcore prejudiced person...shoot them or ignore them because they will not change. I would hope that that statement would not be true when you factor in the Holy Ghost. Either way, since the former option would undoubtedly land me behind bars, I have chosen the latter :). Fortunately, some of theose deep seated sentiments seem to be dying a slow albeit stubborn death.

As far as multi-cultural representation, I think it is an issue...not because it should be a problem but because it has been a problem. I believe that we have a very real perception that we need to overcome and that is not like the Kingdom should be.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I hear you, but I feel an organization's leadership is supposed to LEAD. Period. You do the right thing, plain and simple -- because it's the right thing to do.

In my opinion, if they allow the prejudiced attitudes of some of their constituents to prevent them from making the decisions they know are right, then they're not properly living up to their responsibilities as leaders. Truth be told, in so doing, they'd be acquiescing to existing racist attitudes and tendencies, and also doing a disservice to the kingdom of God.

But, with prayer, this is a wall that can come down. It just takes time.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Yeah, I do agree with that. I'm just saying that I am aware of a few situations where the sentiment did not come from the leader but from some of their constituency. I do agree that that is no excuse and that that is an opportunity for Godly men to lead and do what is right even if it costs in the short term. The problem is that the world is watching and the central sign that God has designed to catch their attention is our love for one another. In the past we have been woefully inept at wowing the world with our love for everyone and standing out as a beacon... and if need be as the only beacon.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I don't pastor currently,but if I did I would hope all people of all races would be made to feel welcome in a church if I was the pastor.
I was borned and raised in the south,there alot of things I have been misinformed about concerning racial issues,but my Holy Ghost leads me into truth.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

When I first started to a Oneness Church, I wanted to bring some African American children with me to a few services. I can't remember if I actually brought them or just talked about it....It was a long time ago. They were the sweetest kids and had almost no adult guidance. Not only were the people semi-rude when discussing this, but the pastor basically did not recognize that it should be done.... Later (if I understood correctly) I learned that he did not believe in different races attending church together. That was a real shocker and almost knocked me out of going to church at all. I left that church after a few years and I could never understand that mindset.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I am so loving this thread. By far one of the best I have read. You really dont know how people are going to get delivered by reading some of these comments. Today, I did go to a UPC church that I would say is multicultural. Both blacks and whites came up to me and sincerely welcomed me. Also, as the pastor preached, I felt like I could "be me" meaning I could yell out and quickin and scream just like how I do when I am in a 100% african american church, and I felt no one would look at me because my "praise" outwardly was different (if you know anything about the african american pentecostal church, our services are verrryyyyyyyyyyy emotional with the hammond b3 organ playing behind the preacher and the congregation dancing till everyone passes out....well....at least thats what I am use to lol). Never the less, for some reason (and this is something that I have to get over) I tend to wonder when I look at some people if they are saying "hmmmm, what is he doing here....he needs to be at a black church.....or......hmmmm I hope there are not more of him on there way to our church) I dont know, growing up in NYC I've always been around every nationality but living in the south it truly is a black/white issue. Also, I plan on being in leadership (if the lord should say the same) and I also wonder how the congregants will receive me as a black man in a predominately white church........THIS is the reason why my close friends bring the "race" issue up to me...however, I do understand there are some things I need to just get over and let God have His way.....BUT I do want to know what other people really are thinking concerning multicultural congregations AND minorities in leadership (keeping in mind a minority in the UPC can also be Chineese, of which I dont see many of those either ya know).

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I am against racial quotas for leadership positions in organizations, whether that is UPC, PAW, AOG, or COGIC.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Of course that is a stereotype that not even all blacks would appreciate...

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Must have been a white girl?

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Yup! :D

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Family that left, white?

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

How SAD!

Thank goodness that is not how it is in the UPCI church I attend. We have always been a very diverse, multi-cultural church.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

Nobody is advocating quotas here.

Racial diversity in leadership should not be automatically taken to mean "racial quotas".

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I'm old enough to remember when the list of ministers was included in the Manual. I had a 1954 issue of the Manual. At the end of the list of ministers was a separate section of "Colored" ministers. I think there were 3 of them and, if I remember correctly, Sis. Willie Johnson was one of them.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I'm commenting on this thread because a friend of mine from another city(not praisehim) called & asked me to. I don't want to offend anyone by anything I say however, I believe the only way in dealing with the racial divide that has plagued Pentecostalism for 100 years, is to be totally honest and confront it head on.

The UPC does have a history of racism. We have to be honest about this before there can be REAl healing. For some reasons, many in the UPC will not acknowledge this perhaps because of shame? I don't know. I wont go into all the things I know about the past(no sense in opening old wounds) but I will say,It has come a LONG LONG way. To its credit, it has made an effort to overcome this.

Anyhow, one of the main reasons the leaders wanted a seperation of the races was because they did not want what they called at that time "race mixing" and what we term today as interacial marriage. When it all boils down, this is probably the number one factor.

PH, A lot of people of ALL races want to be under leadership of someone of thier own race. I DO NOT know why that is really but it is true across the board. maybe it's just something enate?

I will say this for the UPC, even though they have been historically more racial in their past, how many of the other groups like COOLJC, PAW, AA, is as racially diverse as the UPC in 2008?

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

If I remember correctly, the Presiding Bishop of the PAW a few years ago was white. His name was Schultz or something like that or maybe it was Bishop Brisbin or Brisbane.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I think it boiled down to they didn't want them colored boys marry some white girls.

As far as PAW and other black orgs. They don't mind whites joining, it's just they won't.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I just checked the PAW web site.
They list 9 Presiding Bishops from 1925 until the present.
Bishop Ross Paddock (1967-74) and Bishop Brisbin (1980-86) were white.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

So in comparison to UPC that's about as twice as many. :whistle

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

It was a black friend that God used to bring me to Christ in a UPC. It was disappointing to find a white minister use the N word in front of me and others make racial jokes that were not flattering to other races. But it was also rare. We fellowship the PAWs. We have a lot of hispanics and some blacks, which pretty much reflects the makeup of our city

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

I think any brother whether minister or not should be called out on this racial stuff.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

How many blacks or latinos have been president?
How many are in the senate?
I guess I have just been lucky in that I have never seen racism from any of my pastors or other pastors I fellowshipped with.
If I had, I would have had a hard time fellowshipping that person.

Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
 

If you aren't UPCI why are you so concerned about what they do. You sound very much like Rev. Jesse Jackson. Someone who just loves to stir up trouble. Your Obama logo at the top of the page pretty much answers my question.. the Associate pastor in the church I attend is Latino. There are also other Latino's on staff as well as African Americans and it is a UPC church.