Should christians believe in the death penalty?
 

http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/30943114.html

This has been a major news story in my area for the last few weeks. I must say that I'm a little torn about the whole issue. Maybe it's my spirit wrestling with my flesh.

I know that the Bible states that the wages of sin is death. But scripture also teaches us that we are freed from the curse of the law - the law that stated "an eye for an eye..." We are the light of the world and are called to spread the good news of life and restoration. But when I see something like what this guy did, something in me rises up and says it's time to take out the trash.

I was 19 when this happened and remember it well. Wendy Offredo was in my speech class at UA in the spring semester, 1986. I remember the horror of hearing how these girls were tortured and beaten to death, and the place where it all took place is within 5 minutes of where I worked. This was, in some ways, personal to me, though admittedly distantly personal.

So I'm having trouble reconciling within myself the heinous criminal acts, the conviction of the charges, and the meeting out of the punishment. He's clearly unrepentant as his defiant final remarks indicate. I just wonder, though...

If we are all worthy of death due to our sins (none greater than any other), can we as christians agree with a civil penalty of death based on what society agrees are crimes worthy of death? Has anyone done a Bible study on this topic?

I'm interested in hearing biblically supported perspectives (either way) as well as what your gut says. Are you conflicted the same way I am?

God bless.
~ Jim

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Could it be that the Bible is not meant for these sort of issues? As a Christian, my aim is supposed to ALWAYS be forgiveness and reconciliation. I do not want a man to be put in jail, tortured, executed, ect, ect... as a Christian. However, as a person who lives in a society, with a government and politics in place, I understand that it is their job to punish the evildoers. I am not supposed to go against the government or anything like that (unless they make an ungodly statute), and I am supposed to live peacibly with all men. Could I be a policeman? In the military? or something like that? Probably not. As a Christian should I spray someone with pepper spray, handcuff them, take them into jail and all of that? I don't think so. Do I want people who will do those sort of jobs- absolutely! But am I called to those jobs as a Christian? Well, I guess I sound like an Anabaptist or Quaker now. I'll end with this point- I don't really think Christians should discuss the death penalty very much, I think we should leave it to the government to figure out how the evil doers will be punished. Vote if you have the privelege of voting, there's nothing wrong with that, and do prison ministry if you are able, and above all- PRAY!

-Bro. Alex

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I was just talking about this with my wife last nite. She had brought up abortion and I said I didnt see how you could be for one and against the other.Which seems to be the norm. Liberals often support abortion but not the death penalty . Con. are often against abortion but for the death penalty." Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Jesus forgave the thief on the cross , took paul from murderer to preacher and so on. Im sure you have all heard of people who have commited crimes who are now saved. This isnt possible if you give'em the needle.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I do not believe that we have the right to take a life regardless of the circumstances. Taking life is God's business. I do have a close relative on death row and have had to deal with this issue. What he did was despicable, and he should be isolated from society. But I do not believe that we have the right to decide when someone should die. On another but related subject, I do not believe that we should go to extra ordinary means to prolong life.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I have said pretty much the same thing when speaking with people who are against abortions but for the death penalty. I do believe they should be removed from society, but I believe it is God's choice as to when they die, and how they die. Our job is to try and witness to that soul before it transitions.

Be niether (the hypothetical) judge nor jury....but on the witness stand.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

When the bible says Jesus took the curse of the law for us, it is only saying believers who claimed Christ in faith for their sins do not have to be judged for sins that are forgiven. The cross was their judgment. We cannot generally apply this to the death penalty.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

But can we apply that we are suppose to let vengence be God's to the death penalty?

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Yes, we are supposed to do this, but the government also has a job that it is supposed to do.

Also, the abortion-death penalty link doesn't really hold up. One is the taking of an innocent life and the other is the taking of a life that has been tried through the court system and had the consequence of execution meeted out to them for the crime they committed to society.

Here's a death penalty story for everyone, I just saw it today:
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...vqh=itn_inmate

To Blue, has your relative gotten right with GOD?

-Bro. Alex

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I am totally against it. If it's wrong to kill I don't see where God sanctions capital punishment since we are inept in making judgements without error or bias. And furthermore it would make good fiscal sense to abolish it!

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I used to be a firm proponent of the death penalty, but have recently started to think differently. I have not changed due to a moral problem with execution itself, but due to the fact that I have seen so many cases proven to be wrongful convictions through DNA. I don't want to think about how many innocent people we may have killed already. The number of DNA acquittals was astonishing to me, but when you factor in that only a fraction of cases have DNA evidence to begin with, the implications are sobering.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I agree. Murder is Murder. And its DOES equate to the same logic weather its an abortion or the death penalty. My personal conviction is that we should not be doing either.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

And because so many people are wrongly convicted you cant rely on the "court system" to "meet out a righteous decision". Both could very well be the murder of "innocence". I cant support something as faulty as our justice system in this. I would rather not have that blood on my hands at my judgement....to think I knew what was "best" for someone. (i.e. kill them cuz they slaughtered somebody....or was convicted of it...)

But that's just me....and my American privilage to stand behind whatsoever I believe!

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Under Mosaic Law there was a death penalty. And it was under the same law that the verse you quoted was also written. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord. Deut. 32:35.

So using that statement certainly cannot nullify a need for the death penalty. If there is a need to remove it, it's just that this argument won't work.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

My opinion is similar to STEWs. All cases with DNA evidence needed to have the proven studies completed. I'm somewhat torn as to whether we should have the death penalty. My gut feeling is let the evil doers die, but my conscience says it is wrong to murder even a most wicked, crime committing person. If the crimes are so heinous, they should be locked away forever and given a life of prison "comfort." Send them to that prison in the Arizona dessert where they don't have TV, weights, and are made to wear only pink underwear and eat bologna sandwiches. The taxpayers shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on the upkeep of a prisoner. They have more benefits then the average American. Stop giving them privileged, private room hospital care. Let the doctors go to the prisons and give them the minimum necessary treatment. Call me mean if you want, but I am tired of paying for all these losers. If we had tougher prison systems, they wouldn't be so anxious to get in there and crime rates would lower.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Just another thought. If you don't think they should be put to death, what do you think about caning them?

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I am for the death penalty: God's word commanded it.

Sorry folks believe you are more moral or compassionate than God but the fact remains.

Since the abolition of the death sentence crime has risen in this country.

The states that have the penalty also have imposed laws that allow for prisoners to have extensive time to appeal.

It is meant as a deterrent but the lowering of the crimes has allowed more crime that does not fall under the death sentence e.g. rape.

Which is also a violation of God's word.

Ron

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Like sardines? :ursofunny

Ron

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

No matter what we do there will be human error.

No matter what we do or how we try we will kill innocent people if we practice the death penalty.

I tend to think of it in these ways.

1. Could I be there and flip the switch... inject the poison etc. I could not. What I could not do on my own I do not allow myself to feel any better about just because a paid surrogate did it for me. It was still my wish that this persons life be ended.

2. Is the chance that my desire to see the death penalty played out would end an innocent life something I can live with? If I am for the death penalty then I have to accept that this is my hand taking that life. If I cannot accept that then I am simply putting on another what I don't have the conscience to do myself.

I cannot accept that.

I could not soberly, systematically and purposely take a life.

So I cannot, with good conscience, hire the state to kill for me.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Ron, I stated this earlier on another thread but I will repost it here:

I used to be a proponent of the death penalty until I began to realize how many wrongfully convicted people there are. As much as I don't want to imagine a family member murdered, I could not imagine me or someone in my family wrongfully convicted and executed.
Just since the Innocence Project began doing DNA tests, they have had 216 clear cut wrongful convictions and exhonerations. That in and of itself is a big number to me...but what about the thousands of cases that have no DNA evidence. I read that two-thirds of rape and homicide cases have no DNA evidence.
We have a human, flawed system that is exacting an ultimate almost superhuman measure of justice.
It's not about political correctness for me...it's about basic right and horrifically wrong.
Life in prison (real prison...not the catered hotel and rec center that costs us so much money) should be sufficient punishment while leaving the door open for correction of mistakes.


Let me just add that in 2/3 of serious crime cases there is not any DNA evidence to test at all so what these DNA results show are not the exact numbers of innocent people who have been wrongfully convicted but exactly how flawed our system is.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Yeah, and if the suspect was black then grap the nearest one he'll do.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Does this apply?
1 Peter 2:13-14
3 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
KJV

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

None of us would be saved without the death penalty.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Could you share any NT references that instruct us to do so?

We have OT references to stone adulterers but we don't stone adulterers.

There are many instructions to exact punishments in the OT that were not repeated in the NT and that we no longer fulfill.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

None of us would be saved had not our deserved penalty of death taken for us by our Christ.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

It would apply.

But it would not affect whether we voted for or against said death penalty when given the chance.

We, as Christians, could work against the death penalty within the realm of the obedience these scriptures call for.

To obey the laws of the land does not keep us from trying to change those laws through proper channels.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I didn't say "canning" but "caning" as in beating like some asian countries do.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

He said they wee for the punishment of evil doers and the main punish at the time that was written was the death penalty.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

We're not a theocratic, nation-state like Israel was. GOD never called for the church to set up a political, national government. We have nothing in the NT that can draw up plans for this sort of system, punishments for crimes, a constitution or anything like that.
Israel had some of these things, and they were supposed to go by the book and stone certain criminals, but the NT doesn't have these things because GOD didn't intend for a Christian theocracy (and perhaps not for Christians to be involved in these forms of government).

-Bro. Alex

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

If we are using old testament law then we should be stoning rebelious children too.Duet. 21:18

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Exactly.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Agreed completely.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

What it says, in context, is that we should submit ourselves to the ordinances and the leaderships of man...

Whether it be to the king AS supreme.

Or whether it be to governors AS unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers.

This is not a scriptural acceptance of any form of punishment.

This is a scriptural admonition to submit to the legal authorities that are in power.

If this does pertain to a Christians attitude toward the death penalty at all then the message would be one that... if you are brought before the governor to be punished then accept that punishment.

We do have several examples where brethren did just that. The only example we have where a punishment was not fully accepted and allowed to be carried out was when Peter was in jail and the people prayed...

Even then they submitted and God was the one who freed him.

This scripture is about our attitude and submission to the authorities of this world... possibly... even to the point of being wrongly put to death... at which time... having seen my brother put to death wrongfully by the governor... I would not find myself a big fan of the death penalty.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I guess I wasn't clear in my intention. I didn't mean that as a way to say "God said we shouldn't have the death penalty". I meant that in the way (and in consideration of the Law) that since we are "post Calvary" believers we have a higher power that was not available to the Average Joe under the law. Now that the Holy Spirit, which leads and instructs, is within us always, we should understand that God is the only one that has the authority to say who lives and dies.

If we can rally against people/politicians that support a woman's right to choice because it is believed to be murder, we should rally against people/politicians that support the death penalty because it IS murder.

I believe God expects more from the people He chose to dwell in.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

I do not support the death penalty, too much human error involved in our system. I do however believe that if you live in society, and know that the death penalty would apply to a crime you commit, be prepared to be on death row.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Yes, exactly, consequences for actions.

-Bro. Alex

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Interesting conversation.

I think I'm still leaning more toward the pro-life side, believing that only God has the right to take a life.

I understand that if I commit a crime that is punishable by death according to civil law, then I must submit myself to that punishment. But, as Christians, should we support such laws or policies in our government - especially in the USA? I know how far we have really gotten away from an actual constitutional republic, but isn't the basis of our government still, technically, "of the people and by the people"? Bro. Alex, I don't believe it's okay for us to just say, "well, that's the law" if we feel the law is unjust or sinful. I believe it's our responsibility (and in the US, our right) to speak out and try to change that.

I've seen a few post about how the death penalty is biblical, but I've still not seen any scripture posted, in the context of the grace that God extends to us, that supports that position. And to echo what has already been stated, if we are to believe that God's Word supports a penalty of death for certain crimes, do we also make adultery and rebellion punishable by death?

I'm still morally conflicted here - given the peaceful death that Richard Cooey was given 22 years after he raped, tortured and killed two 19-year old girls. He lived in prison longer than they were even alive. Their deaths were not peaceful. And he was defiant and unrepentant even until the very end. But now his options are gone: not because God decided it was enough, but because we (society) made that decision. Now, Richard Cooey has no more space for repentance, no more opportunity to meet his Savior at the cross and experience the freedom of living a life more abundantly. Instead, he'll very likely meet Jesus as his Judge - and with a very unhappy ending.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Sorry, it just struck me as funny, I read it several times too!

Ron

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Wow... what an excellent post.

Thanks for sharing your very soul with us.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Here's a NT scripture for ya:

Acts 5:1-11

Let God be the executioner, as He sees fit.

Re: Should christians believe in the death penalty
 

Amen...