Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I have a question for all of you who do not celebrate Christmas. I have no problem with you deciding not to. I have no problem with it being a "spiritual" thing for you or if it is just a "cheap" thing for you. Doesn't matter.
What I would like to know is do you celebrate Thanksgiving? Why or why not?
If you do not celebrate Christmas but do celebrate Thanksgiving please explain what your reasoning is.

Personally I celebrate both. I do know all the arguments about Christmas I just think it is a good thing that most of the world recognizeds our Saviour's birth. We do not make a big production out of it but it is a special time for our family. I celebrate Thanksgiving because of what it means to America.

So what about the rest of you??

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I vote "nay" on xmas, but "yea" on Thanksgiving. There is nothing in the Bible against Thanksgiving, unlike Jer. 10 being enough Scripture for me to see xmas and it's heatheness. Also, Thanksgiving isn't commercial, which is a plus. Overindulging in Thanksgiving food may be wrong, but being with your family, on a day particularly set aside for giving thanks to the Judeo-Christian GOD, while having NO pagan connotations is good in my book- but some brothers esteem no days higher than any other, and that's fine with me too (not that I am the judge or anything, or what I think matters).

-Bro. Alex

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I celebrate Christmas. Just not in what most would consider the traditional sence. No trading gifts or trees and ornaments.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

What would your reasoning be for one not celebrating Thanksgiving?

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I don't do anything the Jehovah's Witness do - not celebrate. That's how I feel about it. :D

Christmas is a very special time of remembrance. You can't put out enough Santa Clauses to override the story of Christ's birth.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

:friend Yep!

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

Let me tell ya something, both holidays are to celebrate GOD'S gifts to us in our house. Thanksgiving means thank you for the bounty we have. God has always provided abundantly. Christmas means thank you for sending your SON to be our salvation. What greater gift can we receive?

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

That is how I have always felt about it.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

Celebrate good times, come on! (Let's celebrate)
Celebrate good times, come on! (Let's celebrate)

There's a party goin' on right here
A celebration to last throughout the years
So bring your good times, and your laughter too
We gonna celebrate your party with you

Come on now

Celebration
Let's all celebrate and have a good time
Celebration
We gonna celebrate and have a good time

It's time to come together
It's up to you, what's your pleasure

Everyone around the world
Come on!

It's a celebration

Celebrate good times, come on!
It's a celebration
Celebrate good times, come on!
Let's celebrate

We're gonna have a good time tonight
Let's celebrate, it's all right
We're gonna have a good time tonight
Let's celebrate, it's all right

Baby...

We're gonna have a good time tonight (Ce-le-bra-tion)
Let's celebrate, it's all right
We're gonna have a good time tonight (Ce-le-bra-tion)
Let's celebrate, it's all right


:cheer:bliss:happydance:party:amen:dancing:shockam oo

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

That is Beautiful.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

Whoa!!!! Jax is GETTIN' DOWN!!!!!!!! :dance

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

That should be our Christian theme song. =) That is what we are preparing for, a big ole party in heaven one day.

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No to Christmas: Pagan

Yes to Thanksgiving: American holiday in giving thanks to God for bringing our Fore Fathers through the winter through the help of Native American Indians.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

Just a question


So God used pagans to help the early colonists and it is okay to celebrate a holiday to thank God and the pagans that helped us survive but not okay to take a holiday that started in pagan roots and use it to celebrate the birth of our Saviour and King?

both have Pagans involved

I am only trying to understand not criticize

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

But is it REALLY about the judeo-christian God???

I mean, when you think of the first Thanksgiving, between the pilgrims and the indians....only half of them were giving Thanks to the Christian God.

So technically doesn't Thanksgiving have pagan roots as well?

I think just to be safe you better shun turkey this year!

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I understand your comments. I don't want Alex or anyone else to take that as a slam. They have the right to feel how they do. I really would like to understand more about how a lot of think and why.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I didn't intend for it to be a slam at all, and I apologize if it at all sounded like it. I have no issue with the personal convictions of others whatever they may be. My only issue lies when those others try to take their personal conviction and use it to legislate morality for all others.

For example, I personally believe that people shouldn't spend money that they don't have, and incur debt. And I personally do my whatever is in my power to avoid it. However, I don't personal judge others who carry a balance on their credit cards. Nor do I feel that my debt free state makes me in anyway spiritually superior to those who have debt (regardless of the fact that it was due to conviction from God that I felt led to payoff all my debt).

Now, as to Thanksgiving, just because I find it interesting, I am including an article that I happened across...

http://paganismwicca.suite101.com/ar...ng_pagan_roots

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

You do know you have just ruined Thanksgiving for several people now? They will no longer be able to celebrate in peace. This was the one last Holiday they could truly celebrate without fear of something pagan being brought into it. You have just SHATTERED their dreams.


:ursofunny

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

If I have, I don't exalt in it. I would rather they learn, as I believe that I have that God judges based on our hearts, our thoughts, our experiences, and our motivations. (Which is why we can never ever judge another person, because we are seriously lacking the big picture!).

You have two people... One is a wiccan/pagan, and they celebrate the holidays that we call Thanksgiving and Christmas as harvest festivals, or the winter solstice, and they chant and make offerings to pagan Gods.

You have another person, a Christian, and on Thanksgiving they get together with family, and eat turkey and stuffing, and show gratitute towards God for all the blessings in their life. And on Christmas they celebrate the amazing fact that God so badly wanted a relationship with us, that he became one of us, to ultimately save us. And they decorate their house, and eat cookies, and sing carols and rejoice with their families.

I just don't honestly see how the two people can be judged as both celebrating "pagan" holidays.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I am with you.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

Perfect explanation. imo:friend

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What if God specifically said NOT to celebrate it?

Would you then think it ok to do it anyway just because you changed the names?

Both Ishtar and the Saturnalia (Easter and The Christ-mass) were condemned by God in scripture and the participants were also condemned for observing these events.

To me it would be like baptizing in the titles father, son, and holy ghost and contending I know the bible says it's supposed to be in Jesus name but we obey Matt 28:19 as unto the Lord and I think God sees it as ok.

If God tells us no, shouldn't it be NO?

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I answered this question already but I cannot find the post on this thread anymore scheesh!

Thanks Giving and the 'other' harvest festivities that have their roots in paganism are different events.

Ishtar and Passover are separate events also, Christians amalgamate them even though Ishtar is condemned by God in his word.

The Saturnalia (The Christ-mass) is not rooted in paganism, it IS paganism.
The names were changed to make it more palatable to the early church in the 2nd and third centuries.

When the United States was young, it was forbidden by LAW because it was paganism.

Not until the influx of the Irish and other Catholics did the law get overturned.

If God says it is an abomination, it IS an abomination for all time, no matter how we want to justify it.

This is my story:

At age 14 I was in Washington state with my mother and sister at my mother's boyfriend's home with his sons.

At Christmas time all the gifts were being given out and every one had lots of stuff; except me, I had nothing. It had my mother worried, I waited with a smile on my face and then a box was found with my name on it. it was a pair of 99cent house shoes. I was happy (Believe it or not).

I did not observe another Christmas till many years later when I gave my heart and life to Christ.

The first year I decided I was going to be a real Christian and celebrate Christmas with all the trimmings.

I went to a tree place and picked out a 'perfect' tree.

I tied it to my 69 Cougar and headed home.

I was in the mist of praising God for the birth of his Son and a very LOUD voice thundered in every fiber of my being "You shall not take that abomination into your home!"

I was so shaken by what just happened, I had to pull over to the curb.
I couldn't take the tree back ($22).
So, I went to an AOG minister's home and they dismissed it out of hand saying it was a Christian Holiday and it was ok. They asked for the Tree since I wouldn't take it home with me.

I gave it to them.

On Christmas eve someone broke into their home, stole the tree and all the gifts under it (just a side note).

I talked to my Cousin and her husband, my Pastor and others. No one ever mentioned it was pagan or steeped in paganism.

My cousin told me to research it and let her know what I found (I just turned 20). I went to the library and grabbed an encyclopedia and spent the next several days doing secular research on the event called Christmas.

The next thing was to cross reference some of what I found with the bible.
When I did, there it was. My children are grown and out of the home, all have trees and things and I always receive invites to their homes, they come to mine.

My wife and I neither one put up a tree. She gives gifts and loves this season and knows what I believe. She decorates the inside of the home with winter scenes. I don't help her put them out, nor put them up.

One day "The history of Santa Clause" came to the mall. She took the kids to see the 12 Santas of history and when she came home she sat down and told me she used to think I was just plain nuts. But when she went with the kids and the guide finished the tour they were told that all Santas were an evolution of an ancient Babylonian king named Nimrod, his birth day was Dec. 25th, his favorite animal was the reindeer. His symbol after his death was the evergreen tree (His favorite tree in life).

On his birthday the guests would come and lay their gifts at his feet, he would open his gifts at the end of his feast and give them back out to the guests.

After his death, someone would dress up like him and the party would take place every year on Dec 25th (The veneration of the unconquerable sun: The Saturnalia).

Yes Virginia, there is a pagan god (Santa Clause).

Of course when saints pray many times it seems as if they think Jesus is Santa God.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

NO verse in the bible directly or indirectly addresses celebrating the birth of the savior..

The verse some thing refers to a Christmas tree really does not.

It's talking about taking a Tree and carving it into the image of false god and then plating them with gold or silver.

Thanksgiving IS commercial. People buy decorations, and lots of food.

Why can't Christmas be a day or a time to be with your family and be thankful for the birth of the savior?

In fact many American's celebrate thanksgiving without any thought of thanking God

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

False wooden gods were never fastened with nails.

Jeremiah 10:2 "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them."

Jeremiah 10:3 "For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe."

Jeremiah 10:4 "They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

Jeremiah 10:5 "They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."

Nothing in these verses even hit that this tree was 'carved' into a god. It is a tree cut out of the forest.

Decked with silver and gold in its branches.

FASTENED with hammers and nails THAT IT MOVE NOT. Totems and carved gods were never hammered with nails to stop them from 'moving' e.g. falling over.

It is compared to the palm tree in that it is UP-RIGHT.

Isaiah 66:17 "They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD."

It is a religious event.
************************************************** *****

No one said that Thanks Giving has not been commercialized or that it wasn't observed by persons who don't give thanks. That doesn't change what it was intended for or places it on an even par with the Christ-mass as a pagan observance that God forbids.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

How do you know no idol was ever fastened with nails to keep it from falling?

After cutting it down he works the wood...what do you suppose he works it into?

Jer 10:3 for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman.
Jer 10:4 They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.

Jer 10:3 For the religion4 of these people is worthless.They cut down a tree in the forest,and a craftsman makes it into an idol with his tools.5
Jer 10:4 He decorates it with overlays of silver and gold.He uses hammer and nails to fasten it6 togetherso that it will not fall over.
Sometimes it's helpful to use translation that were translated not into an outdated Elizebethian language

Isa 40:19 An idol! A craftsman casts it, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold and casts for it silver chains.

Isa 44:14 He cuts down cedars, or he chooses a cypress tree or an oak and lets it grow strong among the trees of the forest. He plants a cedar and the rain nourishes it.
Isa 44:15 Then it becomes fuel for a man. He takes a part of it and warms himself; he kindles a fire and bakes bread. Also he makes a god and worships it; he makes it an idol and falls down before it.

This is what they did. They cut down trees. Fashioned them into some idol/god, then over layed it with gold and other things

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

You might also want to look into the verse in Isaiah...the word tree is not there. Translators added it because they had no clue what was meant. Here is an alternative meaning

Isa 66:17 "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the LORD.

That is the ESV

Notice the KJV has it in italics
Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I haven't seen any mention of Col. 2:16,17 yet!!!

:snapout




16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

RonH

I did some looking into the information you posted. Though interesting it does not cause me to change my mind about my celebration of Christmas. I do not condemn you for your belief and not celebrating either. It was an interesting read I had. Took me into more areas than I expected. The only thing I would say it that the only article I found (and I did not look into ever link that came up) that was about what you wrote on was from an ultra religious group that does not seem to like anything. Just from reading the stuff on their site they almost came across as against breathing cause you may accidently inhale air that was exhaled from a pagan. (maybe a little exaggerated)

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I don't recall posting any links on this subject. I never heard of the Saturnalia until I found it in an encyclopedia while researching it in a library.

Are you sure you did not mix up my post with another?

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

You did not post any links.
I did a search after I read your post and started reading. Don't need links posted to do a search my friend.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

Understood,

The way you wrote made me think you inferred I had posted some links.

My bad.

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

Just DON'T make that mistake again


:tease


j/k

Re: Thanksgiving vs Christmas
 

I don't see anything about Christmas in Jeremiah 10 as Step5saved teen wrote plus they did not no about christmas yet seeing how jeremiah 10 was in the old testament not new testament so they did not no what christmas was and when jesus was born they brought gifts. Just because you see something about a tree with silver and gold on it does not mean it pretains to Christmas. Christmas would not have started until the new testament.