Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyle"
 

One of the key leaders of today's most cutting-edge church movement has opened an Internet discussion on the issue of same-sex marriage with the bold proclamation that he believes "gay, lesbian, bisexual, transsexual and queer" individuals can and should live out their sexuality in – and blessed by – the Christian church.

"I now believe that GLBTQ can live lives in accord with biblical Christianity (as least as much as any of us can!)," writes author and church leader Tony Jones, "and that their monogamy can and should be sanctioned and blessed by church and state."

Jones is an author and former youth pastor who holds a doctorate from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is also the national coordinator of Emergent Village, a loosely-formed friendship of churches that derive their descriptive name from having "emerged" from postmodernism to take the gospel of Jesus Christ into a post-Christian culture.

The "Emergent Church," as these mostly young, community- and mission-driven congregations are collectively known, is criticized by some for being "theologically liberal," praised by others as the best hope for passing the torch of Christianity to future generations.



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http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?f...w&pageId=81765

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

What can be said about something like this. I pray that our God of mercy grants him repentence.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

~~QUESTION~~

Isn't the Emerging Church" the conference or seminars that a lot of UPC preachers are going to to get Ideas???

I would like to hear what the defenders of post moderism and attending Emergent conferences have to say now

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

There they go...

Tieing this into the emergent church as if the emergent church is one group of people holding to one doctrine.

Just because he creates his doctrine sans the word of the Living God doesn't make this the doctrine of the emergent church.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

It is a Biblical lifestyle......for Sodom & Gomorrah & is worthy of the Judgment of God!

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

The devil is a liar!

Homosexuality is not God's will for anyone, period dot end!!!!

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Another one bites the dust.
The devil is busy.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

A preacher took a bunch of people to a jungle and they all drank Kool-Aid and they call died! Thus ALL preachers must be psychotic cult leaders!

Or, there have been music ministers that went into the gay lifestyle. Thus, ALL music ministers are gay.

Come on StMark, just because one guy expresses opinion doesn't mean he represents the opinions of all his friends.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

I know, it's stinkin' retarded. You're right, there is no 'emerging church' and no doctrine of the emerging church. It is a loosely knit movement that is attempting to wrestle with the problem of the most effective response by the church to post-modernism. There is no consensus and there are many, many factions with divergent perspectives on every issue of doctrine and ecclessiology. Tony Jones represents the very liberal segment of a vast group. Most emerging/emergents don't believe this aspect of his personal theology.

Although I am sure that there are many homosexuals and lesbians in the church who would like to reconcile their predilections with Scripture who like what he has to say.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Indeed... although it is not the best analogy it brings to mind the days of Jimmy Swaggarts indiscretions. ALL Pentecostals were tagged from one mans sin.

It makes as sense to tie this persons statements to the "emergent church" as it does to tie a conservative pentecostal preacher like Brother Epley with the actions of Jimmy Swaggart or Jim Bakker etc. There are some relative terms that might be similar but the two do not, in any way, represent one another.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

It is a Biblical lifestyle, just as adultery is.

You just get killed for it.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Why monogamy? They practiced polygamy in the OT. How about polyamous homosexuality? What I am getting at is there seems to be no end to this.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Here are some of the comments made I found a page linked to the article:

Timone Martin
November 20, 2008 9:20 PM
I don't have any problem with gay people, but why do gays have so much venom against child-lovers, incestuals, and polygamists? We're all just looking for love. What's wrong with that? What could possibly be wrong with that?


cindy



Aaron S.
November 20, 2008 11:02 PM
I agree with Timone. I have many friends who pursue faithful, committed, consensual man-boy love, and I can tell you, it is REAL. It makes me feel ashamed when I see so many in the gay community shun this expression. I feel like the homosexual community is on the verge of something big here, something equal, something just, something true. Any, yet, simultaneously, we are shutting the door on our brothers and sisters who just see love a little differently. Why is that? Love erases the hate of those who would judge us. Can anyone help me out here?

Seeking understanding,
A.S.

Sickening!

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Seems the church is wrestling with dwindling converts and trying to take them all at all costs, but is that bible? Does the bible say we can save everyone?

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

amazing-i would say there is no way someone typed this and meant it,but shamefully,there is more chance of it being true than a spoof.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

The homosexual definition of a monogamous relationship is one sexual partner at a time. It is not uncommon for homosexuals to hop around from partner to partner yet claim to be monogamous.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

I'm pretty sure that by 'monogamous' they mean a long-term, life long committed relationship that may or may not be officially consumated in a legal sense. Hopping from partner to partner is considered promiscuous behavior by straights and gays.

By the way, doesn't it seem possible that there will be homosexuals and lesbians in heaven? As long as they are not practicing their sexual orientation and they have accepted Christ are they not Christian? Assuming that gayness isn't genetic, if it's a choice and they make the choice NOT to engage in their weakness then are they not homosexual/lesbian and yet still a saint just as a recovering alchololic, drunk, or porn addict still battles their urges yet lives a chaste and holy life and are saved? I think so. I'm thinking of the great Christian thinker and author Henri Nouwen.

I wonder how many on this board are thankful for this particular grace of God? Statistically it's at least 1 in 10.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

The homosexual community has their own definitions. Remember they are attempting to redefine marriage. They have redefine monogamy. Do you know the average amount of partners the average homosexual has? It would astound you. Yet many of them believe they practice a monogamous relationship.

According to scripture, He who the Son sets free is free indeed. There is no such thing as a recovering alcholic in the Kingdom of God. When God gets ahold of the alcoholic, that person is recovered.... Recovering indicates an ongoing process... When God sets free, addiction chains are broken.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

If one lives an overcoming life, then through salvation they can attain heaven.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

I completely disagree with all of what you've said here. Straight people are promiscuous too. Your view of recovering addicts is naive, salvation is an ongoing process. Sometimes people are miraculously freed from their vices, most times they are not and must learn to take up their cross daily, ala the Apostle Paul and his 'thorn in the flesh'.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Their is only one way to build a church and that is on the chief cornersone which is jesus christ. We as members of the body( of the true body) being washed in blood by taking on his name (Jesus name) in baptism are responsible for sharing his word and only his word not someone else teaching but god teaching. There is no other way to have church but one, the way Gods word says to in the bible.
As for gay movement it is all Romans chapter one,verse 18 thru 32 describes the end for those people. In 1 corinthians chapter 6 verse 9 and 10 it is also explained who will inherit the kingdom of God!

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

you are correct. I do believe that some people are totally delivered from lifestyles at conversion....but others deal with the weakness and keep it submitted to God in honor of his word.

To those who might think that everyone is delivered from drugs or alcohol possibly has not dealt with addictions.... according to what my ex husband recently shared with me.... although he served God...his walk was a daily overcoming of temptation of his flesh, just as anyone else struggles with temptation to porn, alchohol and other addictions. He gave in at points of spiritual weakness and eventually never recovered and allowed drugs to destroy his life.

I do believe things can get easier with time of living an overcoming life... the addictive nature is dealt with... but total deliverance does not come for everyone. I personally know a homosexual living an overcoming life in an Apostolic church.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

I know of some as well. And I'm happy they're overcoming, as the rest of us struggle to overcome our 'thorns' as well.

I mentioned Henri Nouwen, a famous Christian minister and author who wrote some very, very insightful and inspirational stuff. It wasn't until after he died that personal papers revealed his lifelong homosexuality. He fought it every day and chose to live a celibate lifestyle and did not practice or indulge his homosexual predilection. Many people were shocked at this because he gave no indication of his orientation or struggle during his life. Yet he lived for Christ and produced a marvelous body of work and life example that many of us have benefited from on a spiritual level.

Unfortunately, I think too many such people in our churches feel they don't have this option and are shamed in a sense into feeling like they're somehow worse than the rest of us and they leave the church because they aren't welcome. This situation reminds me of Christs admonition that we should never cause God's children to stumble and it'd be better off if we hand a stone around our neck and jump in a lake than face God's wrath for our actions.

As the small groups pastor of a growing church I once commented to a church board member, 'Our groups should have such love and community that a gay person could come out of the closet without fear of rejection or disfellowship". His response? "That'll NEVER happen! Not in MY group it won't!". Another board member of this same church proclaimed that he didn't want gays coming to his church and using the same toilets as he and his grandchildren. And this is a church that viewed itself as 'progressive'. Not so much, imo, and one of the reasons I'm no longer there.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

I agree to a point that when God sets you free you are free. I think a lot of time the devil lets people think they are free when they are only on a long leash and he still holds the handle.


I think using the "thorn in the flesh" idea my be out of order here.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Why?

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Why do you think Paul's thorn in the flesh was some type of lust or sinful weakness instead of a physical malady?

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

From my studing it was his eyesight (maybe blindness setting in) that was bad, not a sinful weakness in his life.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

I agree. No one knows with any real certaintly what his thorn in the flesh was.

Even the best scholars have disagreed for centuries as to the nature of his thorn.

We really cant assume either way.

I've heard that, but I dont think the bible evidence for that is definitive at all.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

I do understand what you mean "that we must learn to take up their cross daily, ala the Apostle Paul and his 'thorn in the flesh" no matter what is in our life we must carry on.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

I'm getting ready for church but I think the bible speaks of the large (big) letters he wrote, meaning the size of the alphabate not length of letters. I'll try and find scripture and get back.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Yes, I'm familiar with that passage of scripture. (Gal 6:11)
He wrote with large letters, indicating he may have had vision problems.

But there's nothing anywhere that says that that was his "thorn in the flesh".

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

No one said straight people were not promiscuous. We were discussing the definition of monogamy in the homosexual community.
My view of addictions is scriptural. God does not give partial freedom from addictions. Whom the Son has set free is free indeed. The struggle occurs when the flesh doesn't line up with the Spirit. You cannot support that God wants people to struggle and not be free. I know people who have been delivered from homosexuality. I know others who struggle. The difference between deliverance and the struggling is when the man is aligned with the Spirit to receive deliverance.

When Jesus delivered people from demonic control, it wasn't a partial deliverance. Cite a biblical example where Jesus performed a partial miracle. Paul's thorn in the flesh is at best unprovable speculation.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

There is no a single scripture which suggests a chirstian has to struggle with addictions. Addictions are flesh problems. Every man is tempted when he is drawn away from his own lust. Temptation occurs because there is a fleshly craving to participate in sin.

If Jesus came to set the captive free, than every addict wanting addiction can be delivered.

I lost track of how many people I know who no longer struggle with addictions because the flesh is under subjection to the Spirit.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

you'll have to provide a source outside of your speculation where your definition of monogamy in the gay community is given. i have gay friends and i've kept half an eye on the gay issue and my understanding is that monogamy to gays is the same as monogamy for straights. I think we can both agree that promiscuity exits on both sides of the swing. My point was that you seem to be connecting the two and I don't necessarily see that connection in a general sense.

If Paul had a thorn in the flesh was he not free or was he still on bondage. Obviously he tried to align himself with the Spirit but God disallowed it and kept him in his condition against Paul's wishes.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

I believe it was a speech impediment.

Even in his letters he referred to people talking about his inability to 'speak' in public eloquently but was able to pen eloquently.

My opinion only of course.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Very few are monogamous in the sense that you think of it. :)

One-at-a-time... One in the morning.. one at noon... one in the evening. One... not necessarily the same one. :)

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

My point was the definition of monogamy is different. I live in an area surrounded by the culture. Not just friends, but the last job I had, the workforce had a visible amount of homosexuals.

With all due respect, to really understand homosexuality, one needs to have both eyes on the issue.

Studies show homosexuals on average have more sexual partners than heterosexuals. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.

Even if homosexuality wasn't a sin, gay people live 8-15 years less than straight people, have more health problems, and have more emotional problems. The emotional problems by homophobes pale in comparison to the emotional disasters the homosexuals cause each other. It's like they went to an upci church to learn how to destroy a person's emotions.

What the gay community is presenting to the public is not what is going on in gay usa.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Very true.

Re: Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyl
 

Or Paul was like SOME FOLKS ARE here and like to EPHASIZE A LOT OF WORDS...... :santaclaus