Kings of Leon
 

Someone at work let me listen to these guys. I remember them being connected to the UPC or something. They are really an amazing band musically though the lyrics aren't exactly uplifting.

Does anyone have any info on these guys?

Re: Kings of Leon
 

search AFF you will find plenty.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I just went back and looked at a thread on them.
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ead.php?t=7635

Sad.

And it's amazing to see that many people from the same family practically backslide together. I've heard of it happening before, but it still blows my mind to see that. You'd think that kind of think just wouldn't/shouldn't happen.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I doubt any of them truly understood the gospel. I think this is fairly common among Pentecostals who never get enough teaching on grace and Christ love. We had an AOG man visit us Sunday night and he testified that he grew up Pentecostal but was never "born again" until he got the strong Biblical teaching in the Baptist church at the age of 40. I found that very interesting.

Anyway, I just don't see how someone could completely turn their back on God if they were ever truly saved. These guys are amazingly talented and it would have been a shame to let it waste however I read that they abuse drugs and alcohol are headed down a very painful road.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

They were connected to upci. Scandal with pappa. You know how religion has a way of eating the weak. The boys walked.

I saw them on Austin City Limits. They are a tight band. They did a great set. They named their last album Because of the Times in honor of the visionary meeting in the South.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

The upci is very weak on repentance. The priorities of Acts 2:38 diehards are baptism and speaking in tongues. Repentance is glossed over just to get to the shockamoo.

The Kings of Leon's talent would have been wasted in the upci... Anything left of IBC or Mark Condon doesn't have a prayer. Remember David & the Giants? It hasn't gotten much better.

As I alluded to in another post, religion has a way of eating the weak. A scandal similar to the one this family went through occured at my church in the 1970's. People were like pirahnas. The kids were affected the most. The teenager affected by the scandal wrote a book a few years ago which she described the junk religion put her through.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

If you read a little about their history, being dragged all over the country, living by faith, income tied to meetings, put on the pretend thing around people so you don't mess with getting Dad meetings canceled, etc. After a while it plays on a kids head, emotional makeup and eventually resent the ministry. Not in every case. Throw in whatever Dad did, most likely some inconsistencies you get a receipe for a group of kids not wanting whatever troubled their family so much. Ministry and Revivalism doesn't equate with Jesus, most likely they never really encountered Jesus.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Their mother worked for a friend of mine once in the insurance business. He said the boys would come by and play their music for him on occassion. He did state that there was a lot of dysfunction within the family. Sad for the boys.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

They attended a UPC church last Easter around Nashville. First time they had been to church in awhile.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Their aunt goes to our church.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Considering the organization Papa Leon was a part of, there isn't much of a chance for a real encounter with Jesus.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Your plain wrong, I encountered Jesus and a whole lot more with said organization.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I feel really good about the boys chances at redemption. When they realize relationship with Christ is different than religiosity they will begin their journey.

It is unfair to suggest these guys never had a real encounter with Jesus. Many people do have a genuine experience with Christ, but the experience gets lost in religion burdens established by denominational thinking.

I have a feeling those guys haven't shut the door on Christ. I pray the revelation of who Jesus is overpowers the false illusion that religion portrays.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

For sure Denominationalism can be a burden to some, an obstacle to others, but in some cases Unites many around a certain cause or teaching. But often as the years go by the original intent is lost.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

But isn't that what you are suggesting? That there wasn't much of a chance for a real encounter with Jesus? Incredible!

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Yup.
He basically contradicted himself in those 2 back-to-back posts.

I thought that was kind of strange.
-------------------

Anyway, despite its flaws, I believe the Lord has used the UPCI organization to bring millions of people into a real relationship with him, myself included. I'm very appreciative of that.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Only about 24 hours. I see things haven't changed a whole lot around here. LOL! :christmoose

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Well, you know that old saying. The more things change, the more they remain the same.:)

Re: Kings of Leon
 

No one is agreeing with him...at least that is a change :santathumb

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Hundreds of thousands of people have had very real encounters with Jesus through the UPCI. It's just plain crazy to attempt to discredit that.

I already said this once, but I'll say it again: Your recent personal experiences are tainting your posts and opinions with excessive cynicism and even bitterness. If you can't clean it up, eventually no one will give any credence to anything you post.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

TV, that is a ridiculous statement. Perhaps you need to think bigger than whatever experiences you have had. Perhaps a global perspective may help. I need to take you on the mission field with me so you can see some of the things that are being accomplished that would not be possible at this time without said organization.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

It's disgusting to me how so many people around here who used to be UPC, and got saved in the UPC, still have outrageously and gratuitously negative things to say about the denomination even many years after leaving.

I see it over and over again on this forum. It's as if there's a residual bitterness that they cant let go of. It's very sad to me.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I didn't think the posts was that unclear or contradictory. I didn't shut the door completely. The assumption was made these boys did not have a "Real Encounter" with God. I mentioned it is difficult, not impossible for people to have a "Real Encounter" with Christ in that organiziation. The other posts said if the band had an encounter with Jesus, it was smothered by religion.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

well it does seem contradictory.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I know it is extremely disheartening, and I don't doubt that you have seen it over and over on this forum. But to be fair, on this thread it has only been ONE person and everyone else has disagreed, called him on it and given their personal testimony to contradict it.

I will add mine. I had a very real encounter with Jesus in a UPC church and I am so thankful for it.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Ironic how people are bitter when they mention the fatal flaws the upci yet the same people who accuse others of being better always have negative things to say about churches who grow outside the upci paradigm, even if the church believes in Acts 2:38.

It's okay for district officials to lie and slander others. It's okay for men of prominence to revise history and ignore the fact that many of the founding fathers had different opinions?

Is it bitterness to point out the upci of today is nothing like the upci of the merger?

Is it bitterness to point out the upci didn't have a dress code in its original manual?

Is it bitterness to point out the preachers caught in sexual sins are usually given nothing more than what is equivelent to an in school suspension, if that much while they ask for preachers licenses if they don't preach a subjective dress code for salvation?

I have been in almost evey state east of the Mississippi River, and a few on the other side. Any objective person would agree the upci today is not the same as it was at the merger.

If the upci is supposed to be the standard bearer for revival, why is the average attendance of the North American upci church considerably less than 100 members? The largest segment of upci churches have between 40-80 members. There aren't that many 'daughter churches' in the upci.

The last set of numbers I've seen, if it were not for the foreign numbers, the upci would have less members than the Seventh Day Adventists.

I am honored to be lumped in with other bitter former upci'ers such as Rhoni, Timlan, Daniel A., Bill Price.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I can understand on initial review of posts how it could seem contradictiory. It appears the little window of opportunity I gave in my original post wasn't caught.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

yeah, you could end up like me! :)

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I dont know if that part above (in bold) is supposed to be referring to me or not, but since that comment was made in response to my post, I'm well aware that it could be. If it is, then perhaps you're sadly mistaken and/or misinformed as to what my sentiments are regarding that topic.

It know for sure that I dont speak negatively of "churches that grow up outside the UPCI paradigm, even if they believe in Acts 2:38". I have said many times that to me, apostolic is apostolic, whether they are UPCI or not. I think I've expressed that pretty clearly on this forum more than a few times.

As for all that other UPCI-related stuff youve chosen to speak about there, there's no need for me to get into any of that stuff. I'll just leave that alone.

Indeed, Joyful, my comment was triggered by the comment of one person on this thread. But the comment is simply a reaction to a pretty frequent practice that has become predictable and tiresome around here. On certain certain threads you can almost count on certain folks to come by with some form of anti-UPC negativity. Its not just Tv1a; there are a bunch of others who are the same way, and some others are actually much worse. After a while the predictable sarcastic, broad-brush, embittered, UPCI-bashing comments just get very old.

If these people feel God has brought them "across the bridge" , so to speak, into something better... then fine. Be grateful for that and move on and live for God. That's how I see it. But clearly some of these folks simply wont, or cant, just move on. Some of these folks seem to spend as much time looking back as looking forward. What purpose does it serve to be constantly taking shots at the UPC if they've moved on?

And if someone still hasnt been able to really "move on" even after many years, then maybe the best place for them to work that out with God in a prayer closet, not an internet forum.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Amen! Thank you for saying what I have been feeling for a while!

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I don't know what it is like in the UPC in the States but in Canada, Repentance isn't glossed over, it is the essential first step!

Repentance doesn't stop at the beginning of one's walk with God, but is a common practice!

How many altars have I repented at since coming to God? Too many to count!

I heard AM say that his father is a prayer warrior & prays every day----Repenting.

Hmmmmm!

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I think this is a very sad statement and I'm glad you didn't put me in this group. I want no bitterness in my heart. I'm glad for where we are today, but I will never resent being raised UPC. I have many fond memories from them.

They are the group that brought us to a relationship with Christ and mothered us. As we always say, "You don't talk bad about yo' mama!!!"

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Like I said..... :santathumb

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Nice grouping. :toofunny

I'm sure Timlan will appreciate it. :D

I doubt if anyone thinks discussing problems is "bitterness." It's your tone. You don't seem to understand the difference, so I suppose nothing can be done to fix it. Oh well. :coffee2

Re: Kings of Leon
 

I don't understand this logic??
In Canada, which is mostly a secular society anyways, the Catholic Church has the largest Attendance!
Are they saved?

Don't judge a Church by it's attendance.
In Revelation, Smyrna, & Philidelphia were struggling small Churches that were commended by Jesus.

Laodicea, a large prosperous Church was rebuked.

Your logic is flawed.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

No, but nobody said it was ok nor does that have anything to do with your assertion that suggests MOST of the UPC are unsaved (never really knew Christ)

No, again see above

No, but that was not what you did...point out the UPCI of today is blah blah...you essentially or at least to others, suggested MOST of the UPC is unsaved. Bitterness is usually seen more in someone's attitude not in simply pointing out something that needs to be fixed.

Again that is not what you did. You did not "point out" anything. You asserted essentially most of the UPC is unsaved...in fact what you basically suggested it seems on the surface is that is is nearly impossible for anyone to REALLY have a real relationship with Jesus while being in the UPCI

See above...really this post is looking more and more like a red herring.

IAgain that really has little to do with what you said and what was being discussed. The topic is not how the UPCI has changed, but the spiritual status of the Kings of Leon and the entire UPCI as touching having a relationship with Jesus

WHO...please tell me WHO here argues the UPCI is the standard bearer for revival or anything else? Again another red herring.

Again this is all misdirection away from what was said here. It has nothing to do with a position on the UPCI which probably even current UPCI members believe too...what really matters is HOW one deals with these issues

Re: Kings of Leon
 

If by my tone you mean I don't put sugar on manure, than I'm guilty as charged. If I was a bittered ex upci, I wouldn't have given them their props for the things they do right. The upci may be 30 years late in some cases, but they are slowly but surely getting on board. I am one of the biggest K. Haney fans. I feel bad that a visionary as such is stuck in the quagmire of church politics. The only upci preacher I can think of on par vision wise with Haney is A. Mangun. TF Tenney straddles that fence rather well. Unfortunately many of upci pastoral consituency has derrogatory comments about these men. Would a bittered ex upci stand up for Paul Price and condemn those who used this man of God in their vandetta against Kenneth Haney a few years ago? I don't agree with a lot of what Price has to say, but the treatment he received by those who he was representing was an abomination.

I applaud the youth division for trying to influence modern culture in spite of the political pressure put on them by many preachers in the organization. I am more fair and balanced than just about anyone on this forum.

Do you believe the apostle Paul was bitter when he told the Jews he was done working with them? I imagine Paul was bitter when he told the Galatian church these charlatans were bewitching them to believe another gospel than what they were taught. Jesus definitely was bitter when he told the Pharisees they as dead men walking. Let's not forget about John the Baptist who called the religious phonies a bunch of vipers. Better still, not only did Jesus call the pharisees a generation of vipers, he also said they were going to split hell wide open. (Matthew 23:33) Maybe Jesus was bitter when put on a falls count anywhere match and interrupted the scams going on in the temple.

If your major defense is to trivialize ones comment by using the bitterness card, your case is extremely weak. It's like being accused of racism because you didn't vote for Barak Obama or being called homophobic because you believe homosexuality is a sin.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

That comment was a tongue in cheek statement. Those people have been accused of being bitter more often than Obama can say "change" in a 24 hour period. My comment was made because I am aware how the game works. I've seen the bitterness card repeatedly used against those people. I didn't include Atlanta Bishop, but he's been accused of being bitter.

I am disappointed that my heritage was not a true representation of Christ by the time it was my turn to impact the world. I would have loved to been a part of the organization at the merger.


I have not one ounce of bitterness in my heart. If scripture is true, God will severly judge those who have done what they have done and as David says he will have the last laugh. God has already promised a table prepared for me in front of my enemies. God is already moving in that direction now.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

Very well said.

Re: Kings of Leon
 

The point being if an organization claims hundreds of thousands getting the Holy Ghost each year, why are they failing to crack a million constituents?

I'm not suggesting those people aren't getting the Holy Ghost. I'm suggesting that the upci is like a person with diarhea. The person coming in the front door leaves through the back door almost as quick as they came in.

I can go to any church with new converts. In six months to a year, over half of them would be gone. It's not that noticable when hundreds and thousands are baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost every year. But when a church is struggling to get a dozen saved every year, a 50% attrition rate is harmful.