One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I think one of the biggest mistakes that the UPC makes is the emphasis on church, church, church rather than family. People are expected to come bare minimum of 3 services a week, just so they are not "forsaking the assembling" and then there are the bible studies, door knocking, bake sales, singing, etc. etc. etc. on top of it all. I have heard it said that some pastors emphasize a family night one night a week (mine did not). So, are the other 6 to be used for church?? There is little teaching on marriage, family, balance etc. Alsmot all the teaching, in my experience, is on Acts 2:38, going to church, winning the lost, giving and giving and giving to the church.

I don't think it has ever been God's will for people to spend so much time at church and doing church things. We need to focus on our families, our kids, our marriages, our work etc. This is the work of God. That should not be forgotten.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

And you think this is only stressed in UPC churches? Baptists, Methosdists, etc. are just the same.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

It is not just UPC ,but I understand what you are saying .Our Pastor is the opposite though He does encourage Church att,however he understands if you have other obligations .My wife and I [and children] are the only ones in Church and our parents are getting olderand in need of our care.We feel this is what God wants us to do at this time of our lives.We do get to Church when it is possible.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

UPC is my church experience. I have been going to a non-denominational one for about 3 years now and haven't experienced that to the same extent.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

But most of us only know or remember the UPCI.

If we were Baptist we would speak from that experience.

Just because a group of organizations continue to do it does not make it OK...

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

AMEN!

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Thank you! One of my biggest regrets is listening to this preaching that was out of balance and out of kilter. I was 19 years old when I got into the UPC, 19 when I got married, 19 when I got pregnant. I came out of a very messed up lifestyle into church, church and more church. I really wish there had been more balance. I followed what I was taught to a T because I wanted the best life possible. I should have spent more time on family and less on church.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I appreciate your honesty, ILG. I have to say that I did experience some of the same things, but what I came away with is a deeper understanding of the Word of God, through prayer, so I can't say I regret any of it. I wouldn't have known or grown without going through what I have experienced.

I saw God move men or move me in all cases. He is an awesome God.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

God created a family before he did a church!! It seems to me that the pastors who still teach that you have to come to church every time the doors are open have controll issues. They try to make you feel guilty about worshipping something else if you dont go to church "all the time". God created more than just a church for the human race to enjoy. I was under one pastor who insisted that the whole church attend all functions even youth functions at other churches. And then they wonder why the young people run when they have a little freedom. The youth ages were from 12 to 35 married or single. So I was in the same group as my child and when I refused to be " a part" of the youth I was labeled rebellious.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I have to agree I really think the pentecostal churches could use peaching about family and values. I was listening the other day to a preacher on tv and he was talking about what it takes to be a real father and it was very insperational. I think it was a baptist church I was listing to also the church of ladder day saints talk alot of family and spending time with your kids and wife. I remember one time it was a fathers day and I wanted to anounce that my sons baseball team have won the tee ball championship and how proud I was of him so I get up and anounce how happy I was to be a father and how proud of him I was. Well after I did that I had a dad try to out do me by saying that he was proud because a real dad takes there children to church well that really irritated me and my wife the way it was spoken made it sound like he was better than me just because he goes to church everytime the church doors are open. The pastor always talks about how he does not miss not going hunting or fishing with his son because they were always going to church but I think it good to do things with your kids my wife aways comes home in a hurry on wendsday nights and rushing doing things just to get to church I have to remind her sometimes to slowdown if she does not get to make it to church it will be ok god understands.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I really feel sorry for you folks who suffered so badly at the hands of the UPCI. Its just terrible to be so abused.


i am now and always have been UPCI and honestly ive never experienced any of the craziness you folks seem so focused on.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I grew up in a UPC church, my Mom would not miss church. It was never stressed from the pulpit.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

It's out there Ferd.

Please don't trivialize other folks' experiences. Some folks are here to stir the pot, but others are here to bare their souls and just have some place to talk about things others, outside the ranks, don't understand.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Very unfortunate - it's hard for some to see the balance. I mean, you are sitting in church with your kids, so mentioning about the tee ball was perfectly fine.

Praising our kids for normal things should be perfectly acceptable!

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I have learned a lot about some churches since being on AFF. And I do know that some bad things have happened. I am glad I never had those experiences. And I am so sorry that any child of God had to go through those things. I do realize that we all can only speak of our own circumstances.

I probably should not have posted on this thread anyway. I in no way want to offend anyone by defending someone else, if you know what I mean.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

You are right, it shouldn't happen anywhere.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

O ferd i am not downing the upci i just think they could use less acts 2:38 and more preaching on family values. And when I go to the front and pray holding my son I don't need the preacher telling me that I need to come to church more to set an example for my kids. My kids will know right from wrong regardless if I go to church everytime the doors are open or not. I understand what I need to do to be saved don't need it hear it over and over and over again acts 2:38....take for instance our kids just went to youth camp this past week now why have a youth camp in the Thanksgiven holidays that is time to be spent with your family...not your church family. My kid did not go and probley want go unless they change the time frame and then he probley still will not go because that is time ment to spend with your family.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Control issues is an understatement.
I'm very familiar with two churches (different cities/states) that insist on never missing a service or you're backslid for sure. Nothing wrong with church attendance, but one should have the ability to make personal decisions without condemnation from the pastor and/or saints.

#1 A young married convert was bleeding heavily (female situation) and did not think she'd be able to come to church that evening. She called pastor to tell him and was told she had to be there. Same gal called another time due to horrible weather conditions and she had a long drive ; called pastor and he told her they'd send someone to get her----she couldn't miss -------
(Driving was very dangerous and her husband did not want her to risk it.)

Did I mention her husband was unsaved and saw no need to be a part of this church. This church did not allow any personal commonsense and you were doomed for hell if you missed a service..no exceptions.
Today she still serves God but it's at an AOG church and her whole family attends together.

#2 Every service reiterates attendance. You cannot miss and be saved.
A young girl does very well in school and wishes to continue doing so. If she asks to miss a Wed service due to a school assigment or whatever her father goes ballistic.( christianity at its finest).
Class project> to portray a famous person of your choice. She chose Aimee SimpleMcPherson. The final production took place on a church night.
Her dad would not go....can't miss church.; her mother represented family.
They bought the VHS tape and I viewed it long after the event. She did an absolutely fantastic job, but her dad missed it! To my knowledge he has never even seen the tape. Church comes before family. (again no commonsense allowed)

She's a senior in college and no longer attends a UPC assembly.

Yes, there ARE many churches that use power and control to keep you saved!


Regardless of what state I lived in;commonsense ruled in my decisions!

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Maybe its just me... but I'll never understand why people who are no longer UPC feel the need to go on internet forums and tell us the things they think are wrong with the UPC.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I think we should post the good and the bad. I'm glad to hear of UPC churches that have their priorities right. We need to hear those stories. But we also need to help those who have been hurt to process the pain and go beyond it.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

To me it sounds like money, money, money.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

No, Cindy, you have every right to post your opinions and experiences. It may help others who have gone thru some bad things to realize that the entire UPC is not like that.

I was only referring to Ferd's comments, not his content.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Teaching a strong personal relationship with God would do better than preaching 100% church attendance. Church is important, but teaching you'll be lost if you miss a service is just crazy.

Balance - - - good common sense and balance is key.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

TR, sometimes people just need to vent. And, it's not feasible to vent to someone who is coming from an entirely different background - they just don't understand.

I have Catholic friends who have had issues in the church, but I don't understand those issues. So, I listen politely, but I don't respond, because I don't know where they're really coming from.

I agree that UPC bashing is wrong in any circumstance, but to discuss personal experiences you've had is what this forum is partially about, in my opinion.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

As someone has already posted, most of us are from strong UPC backgrounds - it's what we know. Many have had unfortunate situations and since this isn't an UPC site, I don't see the problem.

I realize it gets old to those still in UPC, but I know for years there was no place to talk out these issues, it's just been the past few years that there has been a place where others can known they aren't the only ones that have experienced something like this in their life.

I know it's hard to understand while you are still in the circle. I also know there are some that ONLY want to tear it down. I'm always amazed how some feel that because you leave UPC you are to never say anything else again about it (not saying TRF is saying that, but there are some that feel that way.)

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I know its out there Michael. But I also think it is valid to point out that one personal experience isnt exactly the entire organization.


ILG points out what some folk she knows have done that was wrong. She clearly hasnt experienced all the UPCI as an organization because if she had, her comments would have indicated that.


I am now, and always have been UPCI. I know lots of folk all accross the UPCI and I dont know many who act like what has been pointed out.

Now I went to school with some girls who were indepenant Apostolics who thought it was a sin to shave their legs. It was just nasty.

I have never posted a thread that not shaving legs was the biggest mistake of indepenant apostolics.

I live in Texas. the Church of Christ is huge here and I couldnt believe all the backslidden CoCs Ive met with all kinds of hang ups about the church they were raised in.

If I were going to start listing the UPCIs biggest mistakes, it would likely start
with suffering fools as pastors who bring this kind of reproach on the organization.

I really am sorry for thosee who have sufferd so badly. but that doesnt mean I think this kind of thing is representative of the UPCI as an organization.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I think we all know that it's not representive of all of UPC - not sure anyone has ever said everyone in UPC is the same. When I read someone talking about something that happened to them - I know it's "their experience" and can take it as that.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

The danger is that we preach 'the church' and equate it with the building/organization and not a comprehensive life and worldview.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Yes, I guess common sense tells us it's one person's experience; but notice how the original post begins:

"I think one of the biggest mistakes that the UPC makes..."

That gives the appearance of being a very "broad brush" type of statement.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I will say this too - - there are some here that would love to talk about what they've gone through, but fear the repercussions because they still attend an UPC church.

I have talked with them. Just to read sometimes that others go through these things help them realize it wasn't "THEM" that was the problem as so many end up feeling.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

I guess we could require everyone to start posting IMO before everything they say about UPC. :christmoose

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Renda, the context of the thread is the mistakes of the UPCI.


ergo....

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

That would work for me! :bliss

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Unsaid - "in her opinion" - - why would she speak for ALL of UPC? I guess I just see it differently and I understand why those that are in UPC feel it's a broad brush.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

WAIT.....hold the presses!!!

ILG did say "I think" - - doesn't that count as it being her opinion? Of course it does.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

or maybe suggest people stick to their own experience and not indict entire organizations unless there is evidence the organization has made a collective decision?


I have no issue with a discussion about what the UPCI has done when the UPCI has done something.

AND I have participated in those types of discussions.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

No. she still said the UPCI as a whole, as opposed to the churches she was exposed to.

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Ferd,

Not trying to stir the pot, but in your experience have you attended churches that leaves the attendance up to you? They don't encourage everyone to be at every service?

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

The bolded red part sentence should be post of the day!

And, I agree with you, I haven't had any real bad experiences with the UPC, and I defend the UPC for the most part - but I also realize that some HAVE had bad experiences, and I don't want to condescend to them when they are sharing those things.

At the end of the day, a thread like this should encourage those who have had good experiences, like us, to testify to those who haven't had such good experiences and give them hope that there are some good people in the organization.

IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: One of the Biggest Mistakes
 

Thank you.
I think a fairer statement would be to say something like "I think the problem in some UPC churches is..."

I think that's a statement most if not all of us could agree with.

--------
That said, I do agree there are probably some Apostolic churches (not just UPC) that overdo it somewhat.

But as for my own experience, the church I attend has Sunday School, Sunday morning service, and midweek Bible Study. I don't think that's overdoing it at all, and I don't think it's a burden for me to be expected to attend all three of those each week if at all possible. So I guess I've been pretty fortunate in that they allow us a good balance of church life and family life.