How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I've heard it said for decades (in certain orgs) that a pastor should not get close to the "saints." I've been around long enough, (Sr. pastor for 25yrs) to see the chasm this philosophy creates. It makes an almost untouchable ministry. It sets the ministry up so high that hardly anyone can get there. It makes the ministry a "caste" to itself. It creates "ministry only" seating and preferred perks. It creates an entitlement mentality. It promotes the ministry preaching one thing and then when they're out of town, doing another. In some circles, the pastor would NEVER even consider taking out a family for dinner or inviting them over for some laughs.

Why do pastors NEED a place only for themselves that the members never get to? Is it maybe, just maybe because they don't love the sheep as much as they portray that they do? (food for thought)

If the pastor is isolated to whatever degree, how in the world can he replicate himself? Oh wait, maybe he does.......... in the ministers he raises up. He raises them up to do the same thing!

And if someone can marry into the pastors family.............Lord have mercy, they've hit the lottery!!!! They "escaped" the lower caste!!

The greatest compliment I think I have ever received as a pastor was that I "smelled" like the sheep. Pastors should desire to create an atmosphere of unconditional love and acceptance and accesability which can be imparted to the rest of the church. What could happen with an "army" of people like that in a community?

Just some rambling thoughts!

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

How close should a saint get to the Pastor?

To me it all depends on the relationship/gender/reputation and many other things...

I would be respectful and greatful as a pastor.

I would also be very careful as well.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Familiarity breeds disrespect and discontent.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Especially if the pastor got issues.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

But is the pastor walks by you and continues to look at his shoes.

Trip the poor guy, because he needs to be friendly....

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Familiarity let's the sheep know that the pastor is just as human as they are. And for my part it breeds understanding and respect. We are all in this boat together.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

It appears that way, doesn't it? It promotes a dichotomy within the body of Christ which shouldn't be there. How does this enter the picture? Why would they preach one thing and do another?

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

It is a mind boggling thing that this question is even asked.

It says a ton about how much higher above the rest the average pastor feels these days.

You make some excellent points MOW...

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Just wanted to add that I think your comments are very good...

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I have seen both sides, I got close then got burned badly, yet I agree with the clergy and lay person separation as being unscriptural and doesn't produce true discipleship.

So I guesss somewhere in the middle.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I agree w/u MOW. Pastors should be as close as people will allow them to be. As Keith said, sometimes you get burned. Yeah, I know. I've been burned too. But it's worth the risk. A shepherd needs to be in amongst the sheep, not shepherding from his front porch.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Be friendly and approachable but not their buddy.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I agree with you. I believe that a pastor that follows this model creates a very unhealthly church that does not trust their pastor.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Like others, I, too, have been burned. When that happens, there is a tendency to say, "I'll NEVER let that happen again!" And the pain is all too real from a "betrayal." However, if we isolate ourselves, we'll never make a difference in their lives......at least not to the degree that we could, anyway.

If you can't deal with rejection, then you'd better get OUT of the ministry....plain and simple. But people need someone they know cares and not from a distance. I well know the "old time" philosophy, but it doesn't work! Well, it does work, but only for the pastor. And that is why some churches remain small and never will grow. You can't pastor or shepherd from the other side of the fence. You have to be where the sheep are to really be able to feed, protect, love and nurture them!

I've not seen familiarity breeding contempt, or discontent. I cannot guarantee that ANY relationship will turn out right. I'm not going to be inappropriate with the opposite sex, but I hug EVERYBODY @ NLC. I truly love them and am glad to see them when they attend whether they're there every Sunday or rarely. I NEVER give someone a hard time about their church attendance.

I think it's time for pastors to take off their "crowns" and "royal" garb and get with the sheep! :D

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Can you explain why you feel that way?

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I've been in Pentecost all of my life. I come from a family which includes Home Bible Study teachers, soulwinners, musicians, and licensed ministry. My grown children, both in ministry, are fourth generation Pentecost. This is a tedious subject. I will say that the most productive churches in my observation, that is to say building individuals as well as church building, are led by a man of God who is real. He and the people know his office and respect that, but on the human level, he is humble, approachable and listens without favoritism to friends. There are those close to me who have been nearly mortally wounded due to emotionally reactive leadership, and some who have never reached their potential because things were believed about them just are not true. Keeping in mind that we all have flaws, the mantle of ministry should make one all the more aware of responsibility and accountability for their care of the flock. On a parting note, their are some awesome pastors and great lay ministry out there and we have also known some of the best of these. :christmasfire

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Well said! I didn't think I was that far off base! :D

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Right on MOW.

If pastors would STOP (as a matter of culture) putting themselves in a position where people would WANT to gravitate toward power, maybe there would be fewer problems.

I love these pastors (situations) where the pastor is a regular guy, people call him by his first name, Pastor Dan, etc. Instead of someone standing behind a desk proclaiming himself as the do all and end all of spiritual authority and the only recipient of divine revelation and sovereign power, maybe just maybe it would behoove themselves to just be a regular guy.

Many people are afraid of the pastor...afraid to approach him, affraid to show weakness, afraid to land on his bad side, afraid afraid afraid (then of course there is the ignorant and numb at the opposite end of the spectrum who wake the poor guy up in the middle of the night to ask if it is a sin to have a red light bulb in their porch light).

No wonder pastors have nervous breakdowns, heart attacks, depression, and all other manner of health issues.

Me thinks that home missions pastors do not have this problem, you know why? The working man identifies with the working man.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I think he means that you need to be the pastor's friend but not his dog...and vice versa of course...ya know, the reference to Buddy?

Dunno, just speculating here.

:D

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

As mentioned, I believe you have to be careful to not show favoritism, but I believe an effective pastor is one that is real and "smells like the sheep".

I believe the ministry needs to be respected, but they aren't our priests - - the saints have direct contact with God too and are "called in their ministry". Elevating a minister to a higher level than any other child of God is an easy set up for disappointment.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I agree 100% It is harmful to both saints and pastors alike. I know pastors and wives who "Love" the people, but they don't like them one bit.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I agree. Pastor is kind of like being a parent.
A parent needs to keep that level of authority so when correction is needed,
it isn't just shrugged off.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Hogwash.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

How can they love them but not like them?

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I think MOW is right on- My brother who was a pastor for several years- says the relationship between the saints and pastor should be a business relationship. I think this attitude would help avoid problems, but would not foster discipleship or mentoring. I will never forget my reaction as a new saint when I went to LA Camp meeting and saw that the preachers has a special dining place. I was really repelled by it and did not understand the need for it. I am very concerned by the ministry insulating themselves from the saints. I do not think this pleases God.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Now hold it, are we talking about a special dinning place for Ministers, or being palsy walsy to your Pastor?

These are two separate issues.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

There was a roped off seperate area for the ministers to eat together. I was taken aback that they would be seperated from the saints.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Let's throw in familiarity can breed disrespect towards the saint as well.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

did they eat the same food as the rest of the people?
were they served and the rest of the people served themselves cafetria style?
did the ministers get china and silver but the others got paper and plastic?

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I did not get close enough to observe what they were eating- I just taken aback by the seperation - This was many years ago. I do not know if they have changed things since then. I have not been to LA Camp in about 15 years.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Perhaps I've seen too much and maybe I'm too "old school" when it comes to this. But, I don't believe a pastor OR HIS WIFE can be too chummy with saints. From observations over the years, it appears that the problems often come because the pastor's wife is too buddy buddy with a few women or the pastor is always going places with a couple of the men who are his good friends. Others start feeling resentment when it appears that the only ones used are those who are the close friends. Now, often, there is nothing inappropriate and there is not favoritism, but perception is powerful.

Pastors would do well to study how c-level management approach those who work for them. I think pastors and wives should be warm and friendly to everyone in the congregation. I think there is nothing wrong with going to different church members homes for a meal. Pastors should never eat in a separate area at dinners and should never give off the air of "I'm better". Pastors should be involved in activities that are church activities. Play basketball, go fishing with the group, enjoy and help prepare the taco dinner, etc. There is nothing wrong with interacting frequently and closely with the congregation. There is nothing wrong with calling the Pastor "Pastor Jim Bob or Joe".

But, there does need to be a bit of space - for the pastor's protection. I grew up in a pastor's home. But, I did not marry a pastor. I don't feel comfortable having the pastor as my "best buddy" nor would I be comfortable under a pastor who wants to be "best buddy" to certain church members. I want him to care and love us all, be a respected part of our lives, and know that he is someone I can talk to in confidence and not worry that he or his wife will accidently let something slip when they are hanging with my fellow church member who happens to be a good buddy.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

And to think I always wondered growing up why it is was expected for a young man to go to bible college and become a minister and for a young lady to marry said minister..... It was about esteem, power, and "position".

But to the degree of having a roped off dining area? I haven't seen quite that extreme but have no doubt it exists in more conservative districts.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I respect the pastor.

I want a pastor to be friendly, kind, and outgoing....but I also think all church members should be the same.

My ideal situation concerning a pastor and his family is for them to know we are there for them.
I want the pastor to know that we pray for them, support them, that we are their friends, and will try to do everything we can to help.

I do not want a lot of mingling with my pastor or his family.
I am willing to go to lunch (at times) on Sunday with them. I do not require a seat with them, nor do I wish to be entertained by them.
I do not wish to go every Sunday for lunch with them.

Here's my reasons, and remember everyone is different.

If I am in need of something, I want the pastor to know from God, not through association.
I do not wish to be so familiar with the pastor or his family, that I will lose respect for them.

I really like to keep a healthy distance.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

By the way, I do stand on the side that says the pastor should not (or best that he isn't) "best buds" with church members........ Otherwise you face the same social dynamics that you see in an office where a manager is best friends with co-workers or worse, promoted over friends.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

You are correct --- and that never works out well.:santathumb

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I do not agree with that.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

I agree with this, Randy.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

It's hard to "reprove, rebuke, and exhort" your buddy.

You can be a friend, but there is a certain line that must be maintained if you aregoing to be an effective leader.

Re: How close should a pastor get to the members?
 

Isn't it enough to know that saints and the saints who minister the word were segregated instead of intermingled in order to make you wonder?