Not offending
 

How do we understand Paul's words that tell us that we should be careful not to offend our brethren in Christ?

Should meat offend one of you, and we were out to lunch, I would get a salad...

Should I live in a way that offends some here, let's say I had an earring and long hair or something else like that- which I don't, but let's just imagine... it can be fun sometimes... I would not post it here, because I know the sight of a brother in Christ with long hair and an earring (which I believe both to be wrong on a brother) would offend some here...

So... my question is this, would some of us think that seeing someone else in shorts or sleeveless shirts or excessive jewelry (some here are 100% anti-jewelry as some of us know) could be offensive to some brethren?

Worldly example: I went to an event called VegFest in Boston last October, and there were vegetarians, vegans and some people who were just organic food people (like I try to be, but who are not necessarily vegetarians, they might eat organic meat). Anyways, you know what the "standard", if you will, was at the VegFest? Vegan. We all went to the lowest common denominator as to not to offend anyone, and all the 100+ booths had no animal by products whatsoever.

Thoughts?

-Bro. Alex

Re: Not offending
 

And they ARE excellent thoughts.

Honestly, this is an area that needs more discussion/study. Do we separate those who are honestly offended from those who are easily offended when looking a certain way or doing certain things?

I've always looked at this issue as the stronger brother taking care not to offend the weaker one as this seems to be the literal case.

Re: Not offending
 

No matter what I do someone will be offended :depressed

ARPH:doggyrun

Re: Not offending
 

Just to let you know, my post was not because of your and your wife's shorts and tee shirt's pic... But of course, there are some that could be offended by it.

Also, "If it cause my brother to offend..." we know offend there really means "sin", so, if my actions cause my brother to sin, then there's a really big issue I've got on my hands. If I post a pic of me drinking a beer, that's one thing... If I offer my brother a beer, he is bewildered, and rejects that's another... And then if I coax my brother to go against his conscience and drink a beer that's a whole other... Which do we think would be wrong? Are they all wrong?

-Bro. Alex

Re: Not offending
 

Actually, I never considered this...... Which I don't understand why, because I have received some nasty emails from members on other more conservative forums....
Too me it is not an issue.... and I do NOT consider shorts immodest.

Now if I would caused someone to legitimately stumble by wearing them around him or her -I wouldn't do it. I hope there isn't anyone here who is staying awake at night with burning hormones at the sight of mine (and my wife's) naked knees.

Re: Not offending
 

bump.... any one, anywhere? offended? anyone?

-Bro. Alex

Re: Not offending
 

My take on this concept is that once I do something with the intent of offending or with intentional disregard, my offense has become my sin.

Until then, my offense is simply an offense-- unless it's something that is CLEARLY a sin.

Know what I mean?

Re: Not offending
 

When the Bible talks about staying away from something for the sake of not offending the weaker brother, it's talking about not offending new believers. The ones who usually end up getting offended are the ones who have lived for God for a zillion years and should be mature enough not to get offended!!

Re: Not offending
 

For some, I have seen their offense is symptomatic of their bitterness of having to "bear the burden in the heat of the day." Imo.

Re: Not offending
 

If I put a picture up of a member of the KISS band, or if I painted my face like KISS and had long hair and face paint on, would you all be offended?

-Bro. Alex

Re: Not offending
 

No. But I would honestly question the authenticity of your relationship with Jesus Christ.

Re: Not offending
 

I may question your reasons, but would I be offended? Not in the slightest.

Now if you dressed like Paul Stanley or Gene Simmons THEN proceeded to critique my wearing of a wedding ring, then THAT would offend me. (Or make me laugh.) LOL

But.... I think we are talking about two different things here. There is "offending" and THEN there is "causing to stumble". Like the previous post, the ones who seem the easiest to offend are those who have been int he church their whole lives, or at least a few decades (and SHOULD know better). However the ones who are most likely to stumble are new converts who are still finding their way with a cane and working dog.

Re: Not offending
 

Ok, but you wouldn't be bothered by seeing such a thing? That is the definition of offense. If I see someone wearing clothing I deem immodest is it wrong of me to be offended? Should we aim to shield our brethren from things that could offend them? I don't look like any members of the KISS band (which is a good thing) but if I did go through all the trouble to look like that (which would look awful) I wouldn't post it here, because this is an apostolic website. Have I made a bad example, here, using KISS?

Maybe I'm not getting my point across well enough- I'm going to bed.

-Bro. Alex

Re: Not offending
 

1) Maybe I'm just the wrong Apostolic to answer this question if you want someone to be offended. I wouldn't be bothered by it unless the person was claiming to be saved, and then I would question their authenticity. Bothered, yes-- offended no.

2) Depends. If it is a brother or sister in Christ who has publicly made a stand with you to not wear short sleeved shirts, but then away from Church you see them wearing a short sleeved shirt, then I may be bothered by the apparent hypocrisy and would probably approach them, in love. Then I'd pray for their public declarations in the future to be sincere.

3) IMO, no. Even Jesus said it was necessary that the offense would come but woe to the offender (paraphrase).

However, we don't need to make ourselves the vehicle of the offense. When my ex-roommate and I would have some of the other youth over to the house from our church to watch a movie, he was real careful as to what movie was selected.

4) Depends on what your point is.

If you're talking about your Christian brother being offended in the world by worldly elements, there is very little you can affect there except to pray with your brother for the Lord to keep him from sinning because of the offense... "anger but sin not" and etc.

If you're talking about Christians and how we interact with our Christians brothers, then I believe we do have a Biblical mandate to not offend the consciences of our brothers.

But Sis. Sherri brought out earlier, many times, the Christians who are offended at the liberties of other Christians, in many cases, are folks who should be beyond being offended by the mundane.

Not giving your brother over to "doubtful disputations" can tie into this subject.


Have a good night brother. Maybe someone else can answer your questions better.

Re: Not offending
 

Most people will agree that the offending the weaker brother is used as extortion by legalists.

A legalist doesn't really care about the weaker brother. The legalist uses that argument to eliminate the exposure of their fraud.

Re: Not offending
 

"Offense" always seems to flow one way. A man who is offended by wedding rings expects everyone around him to take them off. A man who is "offended" (although this is NEVER the case) by those who don't wear them, can never expect them put one on -for his sake.

Re: Not offending
 

Excellent point!

You can apply this truism to so many of the "molehills" that some folks tend to make mountains out of.

Re: Not offending
 

Romans 14 and 15 deal with this.
It's not an easy question.
How far do I go to avoid offense? How far should I expect a brother or sister to go to avoid offending me? I remember a pastor of mine saying something like, "I've learned that if I don't want someone stepping on my corns I have to keep my feet out of their way."

Re: Not offending
 

At one time I belonged to an organization called The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith. Our Presiding Bishop was G.R. Brock who pastored a church in Indianapolis, IN. One time he went to SE Kentucky to preach for Bro. Martin. Bro. Martin did not believe men should wear neckties so Bishop Brock took his off to preach. He then invited Bro. Martin to preach for him in Indianapolis. He told Bro. Martin that he would be required to wear a necktie to preach in Indianapolis and if he didn't bring one with him, Bishop Brock kept a spare necktie in his pulpit for any minister to wear if he didn't bring his own.

Re: Not offending
 

Quite a few years ago I quit wearing my wedding ring because I was afraid of "offending" people. I don't know if anyone noticed or not. Several months later I put it back on again. Actually, one person was offended by my taking off the ring. My wife was offended. Now my fingers are too swollen from arthritis to wear a ring.

Re: Not offending
 

So, how do we resolve the "Offenses"?

Should all men quit wearing neckties or should all men wear them?
Should we all use grape juice in communion or should we all use fermented wine?
Should we all quit wearing colorful clothes and just wear black or should we all wear colorful clothes?
Should we all give up computers or should we all get computers?
Should we all give up tv or should we all get a tv?
Should we all give up wrist watches or should we all wear wrist watches?
Should we all drive just black American brand cars or should we avoid black cars with the logo of the big three automakers?
Should all clergy wear robes or should no clergy wear robes?
Should all clergy wear clerical collars or should no clergy wear clerical collars?
Should we all stop observing holidays like Christmas, Easter, etc. or should we all observe them?
Should we all stop observing our birthdays or should we all observe them?
Should we all be UPC? or PAW? or CoJC? or should none of us be licensed/ordained by human organizations?
Should we all hold services on Sunday or on the Sabbath (Saturday)?
Should we all wear jewelry or should none of us wear jewelry?
Should we all eat pork or should none of us eat pork?
Should we all become vegetarian or should we all eat meat?
Should we all avoid golf, softball, and all sports or should we all play?
Should all ministers wear white shirts buttoned at the wrist or should we all wear colored shirts with sleeves above the wrist?
Should we all have electronically amplified instruments in our churches or should they all be non amplified? How about microphones? sound systems? Should we have any musical instruments inside our churches?
Should women be allowed on the platform?
Are movies OK at home but not in a theater?
Etc. etc. etc.

Re: Not offending
 

LOL

So do you offend HER or offend someone else? And by "not offending", someone who would truly be caused to stumble as a result of wearing it, NOT someone who wishes dictate how one lives their life.

Re: Not offending
 

I think MOSTLY the context Paul was speaking of are Jewish brothers that kept the law or were used to doing so and being with a Gentile brother that did not and never did and has no phobias over what they can or can not eat, including food offered to idols.

Vegitarians I know don't care if I eat meat. It does not bother them that I eat meat in front of them.....

And if they did I'd probably tell them to leave that poor defenseless carrot alone! :jolly