Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   TRANSCRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!! (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=21385)

StMark 12-29-2008 12:12 AM

TRANSCRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
DID you see this!!!! This is transcribed from the Message that Haney preached where he talked about his big meeting with the Charismatic Leaders!!! This was posted on another preacher's forum!!



"This past week I was called upon to attend a forum in Southern California... Irvine area.

Actually, I had just canceled those three days about a month and a half before, and so when they called they said, "The meeting is urgent, we're sorry we could only let you know a week and a half in advance, but we feel it's of great importance and we want you, please Reverend Haney, to come." I asked my secretary, "Am I free?" she said, "you're free." I said, "Tell them I'll be there."

That meeting was a meeting of most all of the leaders of Pentecostal, quote/unquote, organizations and denominations in America. And most so-called "Charismatic" leaders. Talk about "The Great Speckled Bird", that was me! The discussion was on the subject of "What has happened to the Pentecostal/Charismatic Movement? It has lost something." Now, because of my position as the leader of the largest Oneness Pentecostal organization in the world, that's why I was there.

That evening in the discussion as I sat next to Dr. Jack Hayford, there were people there like Dr. Vinson Synan the notorious historian of Pentecostalism and others. Dr. Synan said to me at a coffee break, "Brother Haney, you people have found something that the rest of these folks don't know. What's going on?" He said, "You're still happy to be called Pentecostals and proud of it." I said, "Yes sir! I'm one of them!"

The discussion that night blew me out of the water, so to speak. I never dreamed in my wildest imagination that I would ever hear the kind of discussion... I'm talking about the largest Charismatic movements in the world there... and they were saying things like this; "Charismaticism will be over in the next two years... it's dying... we have nothing" things like this. This is the reason I'm not naming some of the people that were present there, because they were honest and they were sincere, and I became a friend to them. But they would say things like this, "we're sick of the froth and the foam. Nobody ever preaches on the Cross anymore." One of them said, "we hardly ever hear a message on repentance, and we're dying." It was amazing to hear. In fact, one young man who was over a large youth organization that is all across America got there a little late for the discussion, so when he walked in... we had already had a pretty lengthy discussion... one of the moderators, I think it was Jack Hayford over that session asked, "Ron, do you have anything to say?" He said, "Yes I do... I don't know what you've said, but I'm sick and tired of preachers getting a divorce one week and being on television preaching the next week." He said, "I think we ought to protest every TV station that would have such a man."

Folks, that's not one of us, that's them!

Why are you telling us all this? I'm telling you, we've got a hold of something so great, we can't afford to sell it out, and we'd better thank God we have it, and everyday you ought to talk in tongues and say, "I think you, Jesus for a pure heart! I thank you for a pastor that will preach the Truth to me! The unadulterated Word of God!"

In fact that night, I said... before... I said, "Gentlemen, I want to say something here. I never dreamed I would hear what I have heard from you. But this is the way we believe." In one discussion I was in, they said, "Well only about 20% of our new converts even receive the Holy Ghost." And I said, "I can answer that for you. When you preach it as a prerogative, it won't happen much longer. But when you preach it as part of the plan..." As the matter of fact, you may remember our choir from here sang at our great Azusa Street celebration. I was on the steering committee for that, and that same group from all around the world and from North America came, but the United Pentecostal Church rented the Olympic auditorium, and friends, we worked for almost a year before we got there, and people were getting the Holy Ghost in churches all around there... Pentecostal churches of course... you... Oneness Pentecostal churches. I remember driving up to the Olympic auditorium, I'd been in it, it seated a little over 6,000, but driving up to it, that night, and it was so packed there were lines outside trying to get in there. Many of these other groups had functions going, but there wasn't lines out there. As a matter of fact, in 10 days of activities there, 1400 received the baptism of the Holy Ghost in our meetings.. OUR meetings. Because we preach! And I doubt the whole bunch of them had a hundred receive the Holy Ghost in all of their meetings, because they don't preach it as part of the plan! "If you need a little extra 'boost', get the Holy Ghost." But Jesus said, "Ye SHALL receive power" As a matter of fact, everyone that was in the upper room was speaking in other tongues... EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM! Nobody was missed! This is a gift! And we'd better hold on to it as a gift every day of our lives and thank God for this wonderful gift of the Holy Ghost. Thank God for the revelation of who God really is! How many of you know that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh, and beside Him there is no other! This is the gift of God!

I find folks all over that want to be involved in some kind of a ministry, but I remind you that you have no ministry aside from the Holy Ghost."

Pastor Keith 12-29-2008 12:20 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Care to share the forum?

StMark 12-29-2008 12:23 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
FOr those of you sending me PMs,I have 6 unread PMs in my box, I cannot read them because the admin have not fixed the problem.

I thought for sure it would have been fixed by the time I got home from church tonight

StMark 12-29-2008 12:24 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith (Post 668451)
Care to share the forum?


wordshare

StMark 12-29-2008 12:24 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
what do you think of the this transcript Keith

George 12-29-2008 12:35 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
So is emergent church doctrine going to take the place of "...Charismaticism will be over in the next two years..." ???

Pastor Keith 12-29-2008 12:37 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668454)
what do you think of the this transcript Keith

I have heard him say as much before, He is very good friends with Jack Hayford, Vinson S. is well aquaited with the UPCI, and he has publiclly stated the a higher percentage of UPCI people receive the Spirit that any other organization or Charismatic movement.

StMark 12-29-2008 12:42 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by George (Post 668459)
So is emergent church doctrine going to take the place of "...Charismaticism will be over in the next two years..." ???


You're going to be in BIG trouble for saying that!

Most of the folk here on AFF are 100% for the emergent movement and
using their model for their churches

Pastor Keith 12-29-2008 12:47 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668463)
You're going to be in BIG trouble for saying that!

Most of the folk here on AFF are 100% for the emergent movement and
using their model for their churches

I think some of us are for the whole Relevant thing, I have doubts about some of the emergent guys, but I think they advocate good things. Would you rather be the opposite. :ernie a sub-merging church

George 12-29-2008 01:29 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668463)
You're going to be in BIG trouble for saying that!

Most of the folk here on AFF are 100% for the emergent movement and
using their model for their churches

I thought it was a fair question. If, according to what Haney said, the Charismatics will soon be gone, does that mean emergent church will take their place. I can't see any of these Charismatics coming to the UPC.

rgcraig 12-29-2008 07:34 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668452)
FOr those of you sending me PMs,I have 6 unread PMs in my box, I cannot read them because the admin have not fixed the problem.

I thought for sure it would have been fixed by the time I got home from church tonight

First off, if it was down then no one could be sending you PM's.

Secondly, it was fixed around 6:00 p.m. and must have gone down again.

Thirdly, Admins have NOTHING to do with it and can't FIX the problem.

Fourthly, have a good day!

RandyWayne 12-29-2008 07:48 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
This whole thing reminds me of a story of a Mac (as in 'computer') fanboy going to a MS Windows event and claiming that "I have inside knowledge from many sources that Windows will be dead within two years! Many people there were saying this!".

<yawn>

deltaguitar 12-29-2008 07:56 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Get back to the cross and preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. The people are hungry for the word of God and they are going to find churches where they can be fed.

Sounds like the beginning of revival to me.

Aquila 12-29-2008 07:58 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
While a greater percentage of people get the Holy Ghost in UPCI churches, the UPCI has one of the worst retention rates as far as Christian denominations go. I’ve heard that growth is nowhere where it should be and we have significant numbers leaving our churches.

Here’s the way I see it. It doesn’t matter if one is UPCI or Charismatic, the traditional church structure as it stands isn’t reaching the American people and is struggling for survival.

The house church and emergent movements are growing significantly because they are reaching a post-modern society where it lives and presenting the gospel with a sincere simplicity.

Just my two cents.

rgcraig 12-29-2008 07:59 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
My only comment is I hope that many haven't "cut off" their Charismatic counterparts in the past. If an opportunity to reach across the aisle is on the horizon, I hope the door of opportunity is still open.

scotty 12-29-2008 08:07 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Most Charismatics come from one of two areas, the Triny or dead churches looking for something more or the Pentecostal side and they are looking for something less.

I could be wrong but I don't think the Pentecostal churches started their decline in retention until the birth of the charismatic church. It gave the more liberal a place to go.

deltaguitar 12-29-2008 08:15 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty (Post 668491)
Most Charismatics come from one of two areas, the Triny or dead churches looking for something more or the Pentecostal side and they are looking for something less.

I could be wrong but I don't think the Pentecostal churches started their decline in retention until the birth of the charismatic church. It gave the more liberal a place to go.

Now this is funny. :jolly

Ritamuffin57 12-29-2008 08:40 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty (Post 668491)
Most Charismatics come from one of two areas, the Triny or dead churches looking for something more or the Pentecostal side and they are looking for something less.

I could be wrong but I don't think the Pentecostal churches started their decline in retention until the birth of the charismatic church. It gave the more liberal a place to go.


I agree wholeheartedly! This is my observation after having sat 20 years under one of the finest men ever to grace a pulpit; a gentlemen and an annointed pastor and preacher. We have had them come to us in genuine spiritual hunger, but, when those who leave do so it is almost always with a very critical, defiant attitude and after having sowed discord. The fruits speak for themselves. We do not have a 'good riddance' policy, but pray for those who leave and continue to think of them as family.

StMark 12-29-2008 08:41 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 668486)
First off, if it was down then no one could be sending you PM's.

Secondly, it was fixed around 6:00 p.m. and must have gone down again.

Thirdly, Admins have NOTHING to do with it and can't FIX the problem.

Fourthly, have a good day!


My, aren't we a little snippy this morning.

The PM box did NOT work for me last night. Others were able to send ME PMs but I still could not read them until this morning.

You have a good day too :santathumb

SDG 12-29-2008 08:42 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Of the 1400 who spoke in tongues at the Azusa event... how many are in the Church today? Right now?

Churches are struggling w/ discipleship ... even the mothership.

The issue apparently to some is getting them saved rather than keeping them saved.

Speaking in tongues does not save nor does the believer's prayer ....

scotty 12-29-2008 08:43 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar (Post 668492)
Now this is funny. :jolly


Please, do you have anything of substance to contribute or are you just working on your post count..

StMark 12-29-2008 08:46 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 668489)
While a greater percentage of people get the Holy Ghost in UPCI churches, the UPCI has one of the worst retention rates as far as Christian denominations go. I’ve heard that growth is nowhere where it should be and we have significant numbers leaving our churches.

Here’s the way I see it. It doesn’t matter if one is UPCI or Charismatic, the traditional church structure as it stands isn’t reaching the American people and is struggling for survival.

The house church and emergent movements are growing significantly because they are reaching a post-modern society where it lives and presenting the gospel with a sincere simplicity.

Just my two cents.


Aquila, I'm not neccessarily against house churches, but I talked to a guy who is very involved in them and they have the SAME problems that conventional churches do. fallouts over doctrine, adultry, splits, fights, you name it.

The thing about a church of decent size or greater, you can sometimes roll right over some of these issues and keep going on without too much upset, But with a house situation, the problem is magnified because of the closeness of the group.

There is no perfect bliss on this earth including house church.

SDG 12-29-2008 08:49 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I think KH should have addressed his org's retention rate for ministers ... to be fair.

Retention is the issue here.

There are about as many ministers in the org than there was 10 years ago ...
Where did they go? Destined to Desert?

StMark 12-29-2008 08:53 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 668514)
I think KH should have addressed his org's retention rate for ministers ... to be fair.

Retention is the issue here.

There are about as many ministers in the org than there was 10 years ago ...
Where did they go? Destined to Desert?


Dan, no offense, I just want to ask you this to find out in general, why you and others who are no longer UPC or want to ever be UPC again seemed so concerned with the organization

SDG 12-29-2008 08:54 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668519)
Dan, no offense, I just want to ask you this to find out in general, why you and others who are no longer UPC or want to ever be UPC again seemed so concerned with the organization

Why does KH seem to be concerned with CHARISMATICA?

because I can ...

scotty 12-29-2008 08:54 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 668514)
I think KH should have addressed his org's retention rate for ministers ... to be fair.

Retention is the issue here.

There are about as many ministers in the org than there was 10 years ago ...
Where did they go? Destined to Desert?


Hmmmmm, maybe its the ministers that are leading the sheep away. If the saint retention is low then there is no need for a higher number ministers................or .........is it the other way around......... are the saints leading the ministers away ??

scotty 12-29-2008 08:55 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668519)
Dan, no offense, I just want to ask you this to find out in general, why you and others who are no longer UPC or want to ever be UPC again seemed so concerned with the organization


I could start a thread on this

StMark 12-29-2008 08:56 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty (Post 668525)
I could start a thread on this



Explain what you mean thanks

HeavenlyOne 12-29-2008 08:56 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668506)
My, aren't we a little snippy this morning.

The PM box did NOT work for me last night. Others were able to send ME PMs but I still could not read them until this morning.

You have a good day too :santathumb

Mark, the PMs worked for a little bit, then went down again. They were down both here and on the GNC, so it seemed to be a server problem.

SDG 12-29-2008 08:57 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 668508)
Of the 1400 who spoke in tongues at the Azusa event... how many are in the Church today? Right now?

Churches are struggling w/ discipleship ... even the mothership.

The issue apparently to some is getting them saved rather than keeping them saved.

Speaking in tongues does not save nor does the believer's prayer ....

BUMP

StMark 12-29-2008 08:59 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne (Post 668527)
Mark, the PMs worked for a little bit, then went down again. They were down both here and on the GNC, so it seemed to be a server problem.

Okay, that's fine. I sense that Renda was having a bad morning or perhaps did not get a good night's sleep. Hope she gets to feeling better

rgcraig 12-29-2008 09:01 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668530)
Okay, that's fine. I sense that Renda was having a bad morning or perhaps did not get a good night's sleep. Hope she gets to feeling better

Blaming admins for everything wouldn't have a thing to do with anything. :christmoose

StMark 12-29-2008 09:03 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 668532)
Blaming admins for everything wouldn't have a thing to do with anything. :christmoose

I never blamed admins for everything - God is able Renda

rgcraig 12-29-2008 09:09 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668533)
I never blamed admins for everything - God is able Renda

LOL - - you blamed admins for not fixing the pm's last night.

Theresa 12-29-2008 09:10 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 668508)
Of the 1400 who spoke in tongues at the Azusa event... how many are in the Church today? Right now?

Churches are struggling w/ discipleship ... even the mothership.

The issue apparently to some is getting them saved rather than keeping them saved.

Speaking in tongues does not save nor does the believer's prayer ....

wouldnt there be more of them DEAD than concerned about church attendance?

Jermyn Davidson 12-29-2008 09:12 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
The only problem I have with what KH said is that the Bible DOES NOT teach receiving the Holy Ghost w/ speaking in tongues as something that is mandated for salvation.

The Holy Ghost is a promise, not a command.

If the Pentecostals and Charismatics could some how bridge this gap in scriptural understanding, then it would be a very good thing.

One thing is for sure, the Charismatics do not need to become legalistic to experience revival.

Neither do they have to become Oneness to experience a genuine revival from GOD ALMIGHTY!
(It would be nice if they did though :) )

StMark 12-29-2008 09:12 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 668521)
Why does KH seem to be concerned with CHARISMATICA?

because I can ...


They asked HIM to come to the meeting not the other way around.

Come on Dan, you can do better then " because I can"

SDG 12-29-2008 09:13 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theresa (Post 668539)
wouldnt there be more of them DEAD than concerned about church attendance?

Kind lady and sister,

We ... KH and I are referring to the Azusa celebration ... that took place not too long ago.
:snowing

SDG 12-29-2008 09:15 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark (Post 668541)
They asked HIM to come to the meeting not the other way around.

Come on Dan, you can do better then " because I can"

I still get invites to UPC services ... and have gone to a few myself since leaving ... YOUR POINT MARCOS?

I can because he does ...

As do many org preachers who slam ... CHARISMATICA ... FROM THEIR PULPITS AND MASONIC FORUMS

Mark ... ever slam 'dem Charismatics or at least share NEWSFLASHES about them?

Theresa 12-29-2008 09:15 AM

Re: TRANSRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 668542)
Kind lady and sister,

We ... KH and I are referring to the Azusa celebration ... that took place not too long ago.
:snowing

ahhhh I had the ORIGINAL azusa street meeting on the brain - my pastor mentioned it in ss yesterday LOL


so to answer my own question, ummm..no LOL


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.