Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 669489)

In order to have Biblical Christian faith we must have Holiness,and God's church must be a Holy people distinct in lifestyle from the ungodly.

However we don't need legalism as the merit of favor of God can't be earned.

So how can a Christian determine if they are walking in Holiness and not legalism and can one tell the difference between legalism and Holiness?

Originally Posted by LadyRev (Post 669511)

*SIGH* When are we ever going to realize that HOLINESS is NOT a set of RULES/STANDARDS???

Definition of HOLY:

1: exalted or worthy of complete devotion as one perfect in goodness and righteousness
2: divine <for the Lord our God is holy — Psalms 99:9(Authorized Version)>
3: devoted entirely to the deity or the work of the deity <a holy temple> <holy prophets>
4 a: having a divine quality <holy love> b: venerated as or as if sacred <holy scripture> <a holy relic>
5—used as an intensive <this is a holy mess><he was a holy terror when he drank — Thomas Wolfe> ; often used in combination as a mild oath <holy smoke>

Definition of HOLINESS:

1 : the quality or state of being holy —used as a title for various high religious dignitaries <His Holiness the Pope>
2 : sanctification 2

Definition of SANCTIFICATION:

1: an act of sanctifying
2 a: the state of being sanctified b: the state of growing in divine grace as a result of Christian commitment after baptism or conversion

Definition of SANCTIFIED:

1: to set apart to a sacred purpose or to religious use : consecrate
2: to free from sin : purify
3 a: to impart or impute sacredness, inviolability, or respect to b: to give moral or social sanction to
4: to make productive of holiness or piety <observe the day of the sabbath, to sanctify it — Deuteronomy 5:12(Douay Version)>

If holiness were a set of rules that when abided by caused one to be holy, then the MARINES are holy every time they abide by the rules of the Marine Corp!

Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 669500)

Really Scott? You been on these forums for years. How big is the pot you attempt to stir?

Most folks that have been indoctrinated by us OP's think of holiness as a long dress with long sleeves worn by a woman with long hair worn in bun, usually accompienied by a long face.

Originally Posted by marthaolivia (Post 669528)

This is what I thought holiness was for years and years and years. lol.
I had to laugh about the 'long face' too. Your statement is full of mental images. :heeheehee

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK (Post 669529)

There is a great difference in Holiness and legalism, but legalism can stem from Holiness. If a person does anything in the name of Holiness that is not in the Bible that is up to them, but once they began to push it on others then it is legalism--this goes for cons and libs. It goes both ways

Originally Posted by marthaolivia (Post 669537)

I don't want to start about long hair, but.. the buns and long face describing holiness got me. lol.
When I started going to church nearly 6 years ago, I let my hair grow, not because of convictions, but because I thought I had to. I had many health problems and some of the medications caused my hair to start falling out. My hair is baby fine but grows really fast. It was nearly to my waist so at my age, I put it up. When it began to fall out, I had to put all the extras strands around my face and neck in pin curls or I would look like I put my finger into an electrical outlet. People were always telling me that I forgot to take pins out of my hair.
Anyway, I cut my hair shoulder length just a few months ago. It looks and feels so much better.
Some people in church complimented me and said it looked so neat and healthy now. Others told me I was doing all the wrong things and that I wasn't 'going by the bible' I don't feel as if I am not holiness anymore and I feel better about myself. Btw, my pastor has never condemned me for it so I see no reason why the female saints should.

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 669489)

In order to have Biblical Christian faith we must have Holiness,and God's church must be a Holy people distinct in lifestyle from the ungodly.

However we don't need legalism as the merit of favor of God can't be earned.

So how can a Christian determine if they are walking in Holiness and not legalism and can one tell the difference between legalism and Holiness?

Originally Posted by Arphaxad (Post 669541)

When I try to force my holiness on someone it's legalism.

ARPH:doggyrun

Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 669500)

Really Scott? You been on these forums for years. How big is the pot you attempt to stir?

Most folks that have been indoctrinated by us OP's think of holiness as a long dress with long sleeves worn by a woman with long hair worn in bun, usually accompienied by a long face.

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 669549)

We might could say that holiness means being set apart by God to reflect His will in this world...

Originally Posted by marthaolivia (Post 669552)

Again, words of wisdom from you. Holiness is so much more than a 'look'. Happy New Year Sister Alvear

Originally Posted by ManOfWord (Post 669533)

Well said. Liberalism can become legalism if it is required of all. It DOES go both ways. :D

Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 669500)

Really Scott? You been on these forums for years. How big is the pot you attempt to stir?

Most folks that have been indoctrinated by us OP's think of holiness as a long dress with long sleeves worn by a woman with long hair worn in bun, usually accompienied by a long face.

Originally Posted by notforsale (Post 669585)

the church is a "hospital", not a fashion show.

Originally Posted by Falla39 (Post 669650)

[/B]

Bro. Freeatlast,

Sounds like you are painting with a broad brush. Saying that most folks that
have been indoctrinated by us OP's think of holiness as a long dress with long
sleeves worn by a woman with long hair worn in a bun, usually accompanied by
a long face. Yes there have been extremes and some of those extremes
have been dictated by men. If the woman that meets the standard mention-
ed in your post, had long faces, there was probably a good reason. Quite
possibly caused by an overbearing husband that wasn't following the stand-
ard for husbands taught in the Bible, but set their own.

There are extremes outside the church also. I see them, with their long
sad faces. They tell their sad stories and long for a better way. Husbands,
wives, children, etc., on drugs, alcoholics, and other vices. Divorce rampant.
We are told to prove all things. We have living proof of what the church has
meant to our family and a BIG family at that. We are SO blessed and
do not take it for granted. We have had loved ones out of the ark of
safety but God has been SO merciful because of those who remained
faithful to HIM. To ALMIGHTY GOD we give the Praise, Honor and glory.

A woman can wear dresses to the floor, sleeves covering their hands, hair
put up in a bun, long face and still have a heart black as sin. The man can
have what they might consider approperiate clothes, and still have a heart
not right with God.

Mankind may judge by the outward appearance, but God still sees that
heart inside every person. There is a spirit of holiness that causes us to
desire NOT to be conformed to this world but to be transformed by the
renewing of our minds. That we might PROVE what is that good and
acceptable and perfect will of GOD!THE SPIRIT of HOLINESS that desires
to please and follow a HOLY GOD. The Spirit of HOLINESS come from a
HOLY GOD!

As a woman I DO NOT think holiness is what I wear, length, or other.
And how do you know they THINK they are holy by those things. I surely
don't. I do think it is important to be modestly attired and I personally do
not cut my hair. Don't make it my business to tell others what to do. Not
my place. We raised our three daughters in the church their grandfather
pastored and the same father that raised me. Dad was a great teacher.
He knew and taught the Word of God. Yes there were some standards
taught and I appreciate them to this day. Our daughters are married with
families. Their hair has never been cut. Their daughters hair has never been
cut. Every man and woman is responsible for the training of their own child-
ren. The Bible says that every man shall bear HIS OWN burden.

The Bible says you will know them by their fruit. We are as trees of right-
eous or trees of unrighteousness. We are what we are. Not what we think
we are, but what we are. What we are will be manifest through our actions,
our words, whether written or spoken. For from the abundance of the heart,
the mouth speaketh. What's inside will come out. When we are happy, when
we are sad, and when we are angry. What we are will be made manifest.

When we are children, we are taught and when we become adults, what we
do, say, believe and practice, will determine what we believed. Every man
will give account for the deeds done in this body whether it be good or
whether it be evil.

If you want to know what kind of tree you are, look at your fruit. Look at
your offspring that came off your tree. Apples come off of apple trees. Figs
come from a fig bush. You won't find pears coming off of a peach tree or
vice versa.

Many people eat their words they spoke in their earlier days. They will say
IF that were me, or mine, or IF this or that, I would do so and so! Later
time showed they just thought what they would do or say or whatever.

Just a few words and certainly not for offense, Brother!:friend

Blessings,

Falla39

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 669489)

In order to have Biblical Christian faith we must have Holiness,and God's church must be a Holy people distinct in lifestyle from the ungodly.

However we don't need legalism as the merit of favor of God can't be earned.

So how can a Christian determine if they are walking in Holiness and not legalism and can one tell the difference between legalism and Holiness?

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 669737)

"These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: a proud look ..."
I have seen pride on both sides...We must pray that our spirits please the Lord...