Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

If the UPC knocked on your door and said " We will change what ever you want us to change in order for you to want to join us"

What would it be ?

What all would the UPC have to do in order for you to be a member ?

How would you word the "Articles of Faith" ?

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

It's too late. I've found out what can be accomplished being independent. I don't think there is anything they could do to get me back, but I could be wrong.


Maybe they'd have to just accept me and the church I pastor for the way we are. Ain't a snowball's chance of that happenin' any time soon! :D

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

No no no no no! I don't think that's how you meant this to come across. lol But NO I would never join an organization that was so desperate for membership that it would change it's beliefs/doctrines/bylaws on a whim to suit whoever was around that day.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

I don't have a real issue with the fundamental doctrine as it was originally written. Just interpret it in the spirit in which it was written. Have a big tent mentality, have the basics let people work out the rest.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

You never know ! There is a new rushing mighty wind blowing, and some of us are raising our sails. I personally love you and everyone in your church, just the way you are. Wish I could come worship with you ! :santathumb

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Are you my pastor in disguise ?:santathumb

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Hey, ummm, avoiding the question is not an answer..:christmoose

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Hmmmmm Scotty, they'd have to start with their complete set of rules for the women folks.

They are to entrenched in their traditions to do that.

Then if they DID do that, next they'd have to drop two of their three REQUIREMENTS to earn salvation.


But Scotty, I allready am in a "upc church"

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

And there ya have it folks!

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

But a fledgling organization establishing it's articles of faith for the first time is an entirely different thing than an already established organization changing its articles of faith like you're suggesting.

Now, to really answer your question. I don't judge churches based entirely on the organization they are a part of. If a church was a good place for me to be, I'd go there. If it wasn't, I wouldn't.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Surely you jest ? I think he should get a medal at GC next year for standing for Apostolic truth ;-)

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

The original fundamental doctrine statement was written in a way that both one-steppers and three-steppers could agree to it. They could go back to the original fundamental doctrine statement.

They could lower the dues. The org. I'm with only wants $25 per year to renew my credentials, 10 percent of my tithe, and offerings as I can.

They could modify the Manual in the following ways:

They could go back to the original words for the section on Repentance and Conversion.

They could rescind the requirement for the Affirmation Statement.

They could modify the Water Baptism section by deleting the words that say "it should be administered by a duly authorized minister of the Gospel"

They could go back to the original words on Holiness.

They could modify the section on The Grace of God to delete words about what a Christian needs to do "to keep saved."

They could delete the section on Conscientious Scruples, Secret Societies, and Tithing.

They could add an item like this one from the ALJC Manual
1. Our ministers may conduct meetings in any city and for any
church, regardless of its organizational ties, in the Oneness movement,
as long as the conduct of both the church and its pastor is in
harmony with godly living and Christian ethics.

Even then, I'd really have to think long and hard and take a look at an updated Manual before I would consider it.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

And he is licensed UPC ??? So then, you are in a "pocket of tolerance" ?

Does your church reach out to other UPC churches or are you in an area of churches with the same understanding ?

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Yes, pastor has a UPC ordination/card. We are 50 miles from our closet other upc church in our state.

We are a district that exercises tolerance, but we really don't do much with other upc churches.

We have sectional rallies but no one goes, hardly.

We do realize that we are "talked about" within the district because we no longer teach or enforce the upc tradional dress/hair standards.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Thats awesome !!!! I would make it a point to go to the district rallies though. Just to let them know that you will take the high road and if they disagree they will have to take the low road.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Scotty commennted/asked:
Sooooo, your cool with any old Joe Blow having the ability to baptise ?
...
this is an open book, who defines "godly living and christian ethics"


my answer (opinion)

I think any Christian can baptize any other Christian.

"godly living and christian ethics" would be in the eye of the beholder (the minister that went there to preach). In other words, a preacher can preach for whomever he thinks it's OK to preach for. It's up to him/her to decide, not an organizational official/bureaucrat.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

The ALJC manual says:
1. Our ministers may conduct meetings in any city and for any
church, regardless of its organizational ties, in the Oneness movement,
as long as the conduct of both the church and its pastor is in
harmony with godly living and Christian ethics.

The way I read that, it is up to the minister whom he/she goes to preach for.
Actually, I think they should drop the words "in the Oneness movement" and leave it up to the preacher's discretion as to where he/she would go and for whom he/she would preach.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

So then basicly ALJC is an org of independants ?

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

no

they have affiliated and non affiliated churches.
Each local assembly is sovereign.

they just don't require their ministers to get permission to preach for someone (a Oneness pastor) who is not in their organization.

I've only been in two ALJC business meetings. The first was when they voted/appointed me as a sectional youth leader. That meeting was before a scheduled Youth Rally and the Dist. Supt. and sectional Presbyter and some other ministers were there. I had been acting in that position for some time and they made it official. The only requirement was that I had to take out license with the ALJC. The Dist. Supt. recommended I not schedule a Youth Rally in a church not pastored by an ALJC minister but I ignored the suggestion.

The other business meeting I was in was a district conference. One order of business was to pull the license/credentials of a pastor who had allowed a Church of God minister to preach in his church. That pastor was not present in the meeting but I guess someone had told him not to do that. It sounded like he had done it after being told not to. I was a kid (under 40) with a local license so I did not say anything in the meeting but I did not like an organization telling a pastor who he could have preach at his church. In my opinion, that should be up to the pastor. Just like, in my opinion, an organization should not tell me who to preach for.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

I really don't think there's anything they could do to make us join back up. We feel like God spoke to us to leave, so I doubt that He would change His mind.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Gal 5:1 KJtPV (King James the Pervert Version)

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

For me it is about the individual church. The UPC could rewrite it's articles of faith, but I would not rush to "join" it no matter what it does. Now if I feel led to join an church that may/or may not be, UPC, that is its own matter.

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I agree with that. We have been in an AMF, ALJC, UPC, and AAFJC church. I know that the ALJC would be no problem to go back to. They feel a lot like we do. The AMF, HAHAHAHA, sorry, no not some place we could go back to. UPC, well the only UPC church we ever attended as members is NOT a place I would really recommend to anyone. There is a UPC church in NY state that I truly love and would go to in a moment if I lived near. I love when we go visit. GREAT people and pastor.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

How does your pastor retain his credentials without signing the "Affirmation Statement?" (The affirmation statement specifically addresses traditional standards and requires members to pledge to practice, preach, and teach the standards spelled out in the Manual.)

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

I wouldn't want to join something that would want me as a memeber! I would however appreciate the gesture.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

He simply crosses what he is didagreement with, like I'll uphold the manual.

Cross that out and write in Bible.

As long as he encloses a check for the $$$$ it has notr been questioned.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

No. I don't think I could ever go back to the UPC no matter how many "rules" they changed and I'm not talking about "standards" either. My biggest problem with the UPC and the major reasons we left is the control from the leadership, the God-like status of the Pastor, and the fear they instill or brainwash people with. I don't believe these things will ever change in the UPC. I'd like to make note, that maybe these things are isolated to Oregon, but we also saw the same thing in Illinois last year.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

In the famous words of SH.... "There you have it folks"!!!

From one who believes as ex-UPC and worships within the UPC.

This has always been funny to me, when I got my drivers license I signed a piece of paper saying I would obey the laws of the land. Well guess what, 22 yrs and 6 or 8 tickets later , here I am.

The change is happening, but this thread has proved by its post what I have said all along. It doesn't matter what the UPC does or if it changed to fit the scriptures as most see it. Sherri has stated that they would never return because God led them away and would not change HIS mind. So even though HE is God almighty, HE simply does not have the power to change the UPC. I mean we are above and beyond Gods help ?

I posted it on another thread and I will say it again. There are some here who care for the UPC in all honesty, and there are some whom cant seem to get that chip off their shoulder and maybe never will.

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Freee at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, you're free at last!

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Hey , another hater. God bless you. :santathumb

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Yes, we are!!!!

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

I see you're from Arkansas...too bad, the commute would kill us! :jolly

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Scotty,

It has nothing to do with a "chip" on our shoulder and has everything to do with experience. There are a lot of analogies I could use, but they would be taken negatively. If you look at my "historical" thread, you will understand the the "odds" are extremely against a radical change/reformation as they are for most any organization. Most radical change occurs from a new org or group of people.

One of the most difficult things to do is to take an honest look at something and recognize the truth. I believe God can do anything and can beat any odds. However, I know what man does and has done.

Why do I even NEED an organization to accomplish God's plan? It's almost as if you believe that an org is more important than God Himself. I know you don't believe that, per se, but it almost sounds that way. :D

Re: Will you join the UPC NOW ????
 

Scotty - - I hate you feel this way. Just because someone feels they are free from men that controlled them does not mean they HATE.