What are your thoughts on this?
 

Area church to hold worship services in bar
http://www.daytondailynews.com/searc...rchbarweb.html

By Khalid Moss

Staff Writer

Monday, April 14, 2008

The Pub Lounge near the I-75 exit in Sidney is your typical neighborhood restaurant/bar.

It has a dance floor, riding bull, big screen TV, pool tables, pizza, beer and a pleasant, everybody-knows-your-name vibe.
Extras

Which — according to the Rev. Chris Heckaman — makes it the ideal spot for a new church.

Heckaman is senior pastor of Sidney First United Methodist Church, 230 N. Popular St. While his church-in-a-bar ministry may seem like an irreverent idea, it gives new meaning to the phrase "filled with the spirit."

"The idea behind the new Country Rock Church in the Pub Lounge is to reach people where they are," Heckaman said. "We've got a generation of folks who have grown up outside the church where pews, stained glass windows, robes and pulpits don't mean a thing.

"Jesus never formed a church. He never built a building. We're not trying to win people over to church culture. We want to minister to them where they are."

Country Rock Church will hold its first worship service in the Pub Lounge, 1555 W. Michigan St., on Sunday, April 20. Worship and music by the Don Fischer Band begin at 7 p.m.

Heckaman's looking for a mixture of food, fun and faith.

"Churches are beginning to grow as they speak the language of our culture," Heckaman said. "Why not a church in a bar? Why not anywhere else for that matter?"

Contact this reporter at (937) 225-2167 or kmoss@DaytonDailyNews.com.

The question was asked, "Why not a church in a bar?"

http://www.blessitt.com/photos/Irela...rnireland6.jpg

What are some of your thoughts?

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

What an incredibly innovative outreach program!

Communion ought to be a breeze.

When are we going to minister to the dear ladies that work in the strip clubs?

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I wouldn't do the strip club thing. lol That's a bit much.

However, most restaurants have bars. Also, if the clientele is open the idea, why not?

I think that if Jesus were walking the earth today, he might find Harrigan's Tavern more comfortable than most churches. After all, it's not the healthy that have need of a physician.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

This is my personal take on it.

If I wanted to hear about Jesus, I'd go to church.

If I want to have a good time at the bar and someone starts preaching and the management allows it, I'll find me another bar to patronize.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I heard of another denominational pastor who had a service in a local bar on ladies night. He spoke on relationships and self respect to a section of the bar mostly filled with ladies who listened intently. The bar owner didn't expect so many ladies to take their drinks over to the section where the preacher was speaking but they filled the section, some standing. The preacher had a conversational tone and wasn't "preaching" in typical fashion, but he just spoke on relationships and respect, seasoning much of his message with various verses from the Bible. He also hit some points of humor where a lot of the ladies related and there was some laughter. There was actually quite a good reception from the attendees. Now... the local churches of course want him tared and feathered. lol

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I wonder IF he got permission from the bar's owners? and if so, HOW? If I owned a bar, I'm sure I wouldn't give anyone permission to come in and hold a church service in my bar. Especially not during regular business hours.

On the other hand, if the people get convinced that they can be "fine Christian people" and still carry on their old lifestyle, then I guess it would be to the owner's benefit to have them there.

Hmmm............. something to think about.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I think that makes sense. For the most part I agree.

But I think that some clubs invite comedians etc. If the preacher is speaking on a relevant topic, the people might be receptive. For example, relationships, overcoming depression, finding peace in a troubled world, or the importance of family, raising teenagers... I think some folks might not mind listening.

But I agree, when I've been in bars (yep, I've been there done that) I wouldn't have wanted to hear some ranting preacher in the corner of the place. I was there to get a buzz going and meet some ladies.

But a corner of the bar set up to allow a man to simply "speak" on an issue to those interested, why not?

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I'm not sure of what exactly they are trying to win them over to. Not religion, no doubt, but they still need to be won to a church body of believers, that reflect Jesus. Is that their intentions? I hope. I like the picture, I must say.




I met a full gospl guy the other day that; they use a rather large metal building for church on Sundays. They pay no rent. What they do instead, is clean up (every saturday evening)after the "marriage swapping parties" that 1st take place in the building during the week. The ones that use the building then take their partying to the hotels from there. I think what that church is doing, and having services the next day, could ultimately reach some nitty gritty sinners.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I'm not so sure if one could call it a "church service" in the way we would typically see it. Obviously this was a service provided by a local church, but the preacher was obviously not yelling into a microphone and pointing a finger, he was in blue jeans and just talking about life's ups and downs. I can picture a preacher talking to a small group in the corner of a bar on, "Looking For Love In All the Wrong Places". If kept practical and good spirited, I'm sure few would see an issue. Most likely, he'd get some good hardy "Amen!"s from some of those who have been in the bar scene a while and have experienced first hand what he'd be talking about.

True. But I don't think I'd condemn anyone for having a couple drinks in a responsible fashion. I've been known to enjoy a margarita when eating finer Mexican food or a glass of wine with dinner, especially Italian. Now, the carousing and revelry would definitely not be something becoming of a Christian.

I just think the idea is gutsy.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

If they are truly interested, they'd go to where he is, right?

Exactly how receptive to any topic can someone be in a bar doing what people in bars do?

Overcoming depression? Isn't that why they are in the bar in the first place?

Relationship and how to make them better? Is that something people go to the bar to work on?

Finding peace and the importance of family? If that's something they are interested in, going to the bar isn't going to help them find it.

In addition, since the bar is no place to find these things, let's say it works. This means that people get over their problems and no longer go to the bar for help. So now the bar owners are making less money.

If I was the bar owner, I wouldn't allow it. I serve people drinks to help them forget they have problems, not to help them get over them.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I know of a UPCI church that had meetings in a banquet hall that was typically used for large parties frequented by bikers. Lot's of heavy drinking and craziness going on. They would also gather to clean up the hall before setting out chairs and preparing for services.

I think I read a poster on this forum offer the advice to take church to where life happens. I guess I can understand the importance of having structured church services in a church building, but I think we sometimes sequester ourselves and hide from the world in this buildings when we should be letting our light so shine before men. I like what Paul said,

"20You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house." - Acts 20:20 (NIV)

We know they gathered in homes where they could learn the Scriptures and worship. But I can also see them gathering in the market places and in the squares around a teacher while life buzzed around them. No doubt many a sinner first heard the gospel this way.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

Total Amen to that! You're absolutely right.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I wouldn't do the strip club thing either....I'd be on the front pew sure but my attention would not be on the preacher :thebunny

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I think that's true to an extent. But I know good people who are very interesting in knowing more about God, their salvation, the Bible, and truth...but who have no interest in church. Many have been hurt by churches or have watched churches hurt people they love. We see scandal after scandal in the news. I know a lot of people who want to know more about God, but they honestly think that the church is just after their money. I was talking to a friend of mine who believes this and he admitted that there must be "good churches" out there, but he said, "How do you tell which are good churches and which are not?" He went on to explain that he'd rather just not risk it and read his Bible at home.

Sometimes it's not as easy as saying that they know where to go. Sadly, "church" has done more to harm the cause of Christ than anything else.

Exactly how receptive to any topic can someone be in a bar doing what people in bars do?

I've gone to bars and restaurants and had a couple drinks and been receptive to conversation and had a great time. I think that we assume that people in bars or restaurant bars are just there to get hammered. Most are just easy going folks looking to have a couple drinks to take the edge off. Those few who overdo it are obviously not going to get much out of it. I also think that time is important to. Meeting from 8PM to 9PM wouldn't be too bad...but to stay much later would most likely be fruitless, unless you were just mingling and making friends with the patrons.

Not always. Bars are often frequented by very successful corporate business associates. I've had to attend such meetings when a director invites the staff out to Bar Louis for drinks after work. Sometimes some very important business takes place in this atmosphere. Most are just there to take the edge off and socialize or network with co-workers. Now, the darkened neighborhood bar scene...well... I've seen that, and it's a bit different. I think it depends on the establishment.


One would think not, but it was pretty telling when a number of patrons actually listened in on a minister's discussion on relationships targeted at the ladies on ladies night. The one minister in the article I posted above spoke about life's ups and downs using the mechanical bull in the bar as an example of what it can be like hanging on to life's twists and turns. The point, hold on, never give up... and when you fall, get back up. It was all well received. Again, he got more criticism from the religious community than the patrons of the bar.

And certainly those who are uninterested just stay from that corner of the bar and drink. But... if one of them hears something that shakes them... wouldn't that be worth it?

In addition, since the bar is no place to find these things, let's say it works. This means that people get over their problems and no longer go to the bar for help. So now the bar owners are making less money.

Again, I think we're assuming that only depressed people go to bars to get plastered. That's not been my experience. It's most often socializing, networking, and taking an edge off from an intense work week.

I think many bar tenders might agree with you. But I've heard of bar tenders and bar owners who are Christian and see opportunity in opening a door for the gospel where there may not have been one previously.

But you do bring up some pretty good points to think about.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

LOL

Let me guess, you'd not be saving your one dollar bills for the offering plate right? LOL

Maybe you'd let go of that ten or twenty. ;) LOL

Yep, I'd definitely not encourage ministering in a strip club.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

Interesting text....

Matthew 11:19
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

What would Jesus do?

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I will go to more upscale bars with a friend of mine for a drink and conversation on occasion, but I'm still not interested in going to a bar of any kind for a meeting on how to make my life better. I can't imagine anyone going to a bar with such a purpose in mind.

"Would you like to go out for a drink or two downtown?"

"Sure! And while we are there, we can listen to this guy speak on overcoming depression. Wouldn't that be fantastic?"

"If only other bars in this area would bring that kind of service to their patrons. Just think of what a better place this world could be?"

Ok, I'm being a bit sarcastic, but I'm laughing cause the idea is just too funny to me. Perhaps if I saw evidence on the difference his ministry is making in the lives of those people, I might not laugh too long.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

LOL

I feel ya, that's one reason why I posted it.

I don't think people would go for the services, but some who are there might wonder what's being said. One of the most powerful of human instincts is curiosity. I think a lot of folks who intended to just go have a few drinks would be curious about what was being discussed. As with the examples given, a lot of folks might listen in.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

Don't laugh but a brother told me there is a church group that goes to the strip clubs and does just that. Do I think that is wise? NO. Do I think that is what God meant? NO. Do they need the Word of God? YES.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I bet they get quite a turn out for outreach, especially from among the men's group. lol

I'll admit it, I'd go. :D

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I don't see that as having church. I see that as having psychological talk on self esteem.

I look at it this way. When Jesus saved me, I crawled out of the pit. I refuse to go back into the pit to try to teach/preach. I will reach down into the pit and pull anyone up that wants out, but I won't wallow with them IN the pit. Big difference.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I think it depends on how one defines "having church". If one defines it as having music, dancing, shackamaroo, and a screaming preacher complete with the "preacher's cough", no that wasn't church. But "church" in the NT was comprised mainly of small and simple meetings where primarily the Scriptures were read and prayers were offered. Rather tame compared to modern Pentecostal fashion. I'd liken this not necessarily to a "psychological talk on self esteem", but rather a Topical Bible Study offered in a public establishment.

I can understand that. But what if God calls a man to minister in these places? There is nothing unholy about a bar or restaurant in and of itself. Some sad souls go there to drown their sorrows in drunkenness, but most go to socialize or just to hang out and take the edge off.

I guess I feel like just because a man gives a Bible Study in bar doesn't mean that he's reveling in drunkenness or "partying" with the crowd. In fact, he's most likely keeping things rather tame compared to how most would behave if they weren't listening to his study. So I wouldn't say one would be "wallowing" with them in any way. It's just meeting people where they work, socialize, and play to give them a Bible study.

For example, the last Bible study I gave was to three people in an Applebee's... and it was at a tall table in area with the bar. I know for a fact that a few people listened in on the study though they were sipping on a couple beers and eating riblets. What's the difference?

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

That's Ohio. What do expect from people in Ohio? They can't even vote right. Ohio... blthpppppppt!

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

We had a lady get saved in our church a couple years ago who owned a bar. She had a lease for almost another year, and couldn't get out of it. So she continued to run the bar (even though Holy Ghost filled), but she witnessed to everyone who came in and she herself totally quit drinking. She brought SO many people to church over the course of a year, including some of her regular customers and barmaids. Everyone kept telling her she was going to ruin her business by talking about the Lord, but she determined to make the best out of an uncomfortable situation.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I would have let her continue running the bar. A Christian would make the best bartenders. You see, bartenders aren't there to get you drunk, they're there to serve drinks and food...and to prevent people from becoming too hammered. Bartenders are legally liable for people who leave and are too messed up. I would have let her continue running the bar. LOL No telling how many might come to church. But of course, I personally don't think it's a sin to drink responsibly and in moderation.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I've been praying and seeking the mind of God for this very thing. There's a difference between going to where people are and partaking in their wickedness. Jesus Himself would have been found in these very places. I'm certain of it. He wouldn't be partaking of their drunkenness, but He would have been there caring and loving people and extending hope to them. And He wouldn't have been screaming at them (and... Bless Gawd! You generation of vipers... [i]preacher cough[/]...) or asking the choir to sing or take up an offering. He would have ministered to them right where they are... healing their diseases, delivering them from their addictions, etc.

I've been feeling like the Lord is telling me to just go, sit at a table in the corner with my Bible one evening, order a Diet Coke (personal conviction not to partake of alcohol), and try to strike up a few conversations and see where it goes. I've ministered to far more people OUTSIDE of the walls of "the church" because I got a revelation that I AM THE CHURCH ... WHEREVER I GO... and out of 168 hours in any given week, about 166 of them take place outside that building. That's where I need to minister.

Pray for me. I'm actually very backward in my personality, so "striking up conversation" - especially with strangers - almost paralyzes me with fear. But I know God is calling me to do this.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

We are the church, the gospel mandate never said bring people to church, it said go, I think it to be risky to go to that setting but at the same time, those risks are rewarded. Sometimes to fulfill the gospel mandate, we are going to have to sit in the smoking or drinking sections.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

AMEN!

Apparently Jesus did just that and was called "Gluttonous and a winebibber" by the "religious" of His day.

The great commission say "Go Ye into all the World......" What part of all does not include the bar? Youare 100% correct borther, the Church is not a building with a cross on top, it you and me taking up our cross and following Him.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I think we've given into a spirit of fear in a lot of ways. We like to keep things in church because it's "safe" and controlled.

It might have some "risks". But this is war. Why don't we accept the fact that there will be losses? It's like we see that the war must be fought.... but we don't want to brave the fire or move into enemy territory.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I'm all for trying to reach people but holding services in a bar seems a bit much to me personally.

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

True statements.....we like safe

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

I understand. I thought the same thing... until I gave a Bible Study in an Applebee's at one of the tall tables in the bar section. People listened in. We also had some good food with the study. Would you hold a bible study for a couple friends in an Applebee's? What would be the difference in your opinion?

Re: What are your thoughts on this?
 

Now if I were teaching a Bible study in a bar, I'd teach my study while drinking only water. I'd only have an Old Fashioned (a personal favorite) or a glass of wine afterward if I chose to socialize. hehehe