US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

The nation's top military officer said Tuesday the United States did all it could to intercept a suspected arms shipment to Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip, but its hands were tied.

Separately, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said it is too soon to tell whether the prospect of new U.S. engagement with Iran will bear fruit.

Mullen confirmed that a Cypriot-flagged ship intercepted in the Red Sea last week was carrying Iranian arms, and U.S. authorities suspect that the shipment was ultimately bound for the Gaza Strip, where Hamas and Israel are observing a shaky truce after three weeks of fighting.


More here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...ome;topStories

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

This kind of stuff scares me.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Maybe I'm thinking about it too simplistically, but we CAN'T stop arms shipments? Aren't there secret ops for that? Or have I seen too many movies?

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Why am I not surprised?

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

I thought this was one of our strong suits too.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

We can't LEGALLY stop them. That is the problem. To start with 100 miles off the coat of any nation is considered their legal domain. It would be like us invading Canada and wiping out a suspected arms dealer...not that this is a bad idea mind you...but they are a sovergn nation still :thumbsup

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

The problem is with a secret ops is we already boarded this ship to discover the arms...then if something "Mysteriously" happens to it...well...why even have a secret ops when everyone knows it was us?

Personally I would expect Israel to do this as the ship is heading towards Gaza or wherever

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Just imagine if you were a Palestinian mother with three young children.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Every Palestinian mother dreams of the day her son can die in Jihad while killing a jew. Bombs strapped to their bodies was the prefered method until the wall

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Really? How many Palestinians do you know personally? Also how many Israelis do you know personally?

This web site is provided by an Israeli human rights group.

http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp

How many children do you have Prax?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

I was being sarcastic but yes there are mothers that have said they want their sons to die a martyrs death killing Israelis. It was on the news. She said it. When the wall was not up yet a lot of suicide bombers were children. It's a sad thing, not a good thing.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

BTW that site seems pretty balanced. Usually it's just someone pointing their fingers at one side and not rather reporting on both

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Bro, that's not true. I know a few Palistinian families. One owns the CedarLand Bakery & Restaurant, fantastic Mediterranean fare by the way. They love their kids like the rest of us. The one thing I rutinely see is that they view their leaders the way many Americans view the Republicans. For example, I know a man who believes that the Republicans are ideological religious extremists who are hawkish regarding military policy, but he feels they are safer than the Democrats so he supports the Republicans holding his nose. Most of the Palestinians I've talked to feel the same way about their leadership. The realize these guys have an ideological religious extremism, they also realize that these people have a hawkish anti-Israel and anti-American military agenda... but they feel these leaders are the best option they have. But when Israel bombs a civilian neighborhood and kids are killed, their leadership makes sure it makes the television and gets the people upset in protest against Israel. It's a mess. They are going to have to work out a workable deal... the only other option is one side killing every last one of the other... and that's less acceptable than a deal in my opinion.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

If you read further I said I was being sarcastic, and I was referring to Palestinians THERE, not those that left

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Doh! I see it now. Love ya bro.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Also to blame are the "Imams" and those in government control. Hamas does not care about the Palestinians. For them this is all about power, control and their hatred for Israel.

I also blame the Arabs. They have enough money to rebuild the entire infrastructure of Palestine and the influence to get them to lay down arms. Without a threat Israel will have something better to do than attack them..

The only question remaining then is Jerusalem, but the Palestinians already control the Temple Mount.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Since its inception, the US Navy's primary function has been to guarantee freedom and free trade on the high seas. To interfere with a legitimate cargo delivery would require extenuating circumstances.

Also, if the cargo and crew were impounded - what do you do with them? US Courts have recently ruled that pirates and illegal combatants have the same rights as American citizens. The Navy really has their hands tied here.

If Israel had intercepted the ship, under the laws of war they could have sunk the whole thing and hanged everyone on board who wasn't wearing a uniform or service insignia. Of course the international outcry would have been tremendous.

The current situation vis a vis the United States Courts and illegal combatants is very problematic for our service personnel. How many Navy officers want to throw away their careers because some leftist official or government prosecutor wants to ensure the the rights of international terrorists?

Remember what happened to those two Border Patrol guards? US prosecutors hounded and persecuted them as far as they could - and did so with impunity. The same thing can happen to the commander of any US Naval vessel. You'd better believe that those commanders are acutely aware of this.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

You would think that Hamas was a super power. :ursofunny

These guys are firing homemade rockets, against modern state of the art weapons of Israel.

Anyone notice that in Northern Gaza that it looks like the place has been hammered into rubble?

These people live in 4th world conditions, coming up against a country that can pound them in the ground like a tent stake.

Believe me, Israel isn't cowering in the corner curled up in the fetal position.
Israel has enough fire power to wipe out every man woman and child in Gaza, and would do it, if not for the rest of the world breathing down Israel's neck.

America might turn a blind eye to its misbehaving dependent in the Middle East, but the rest of the world is getting a little wore out with Israel playing the victim.

Do the research. Try to find out what is going on over there, by other means than your American media. Try to find out from sources who are not scared out of their minds that AIPAC will destroy their careers.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ educate yourselves, try to understand the entire issue. We are Christians, and we are on no one's side who would use violence wether it is suicide bombs, or stinger missiles fired from an Apache helicopter. http://www.btselem.org/English/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ts-gaza-israel

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055471.html

http://rhr.israel.net/

http://www.hrw.org/en/middle-eastn-a...ed-territories

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-u...-gaza-20080121

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=17362

http://www.jatonyc.org/UNresolutions.html

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/index_en.html

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

You said Israel would wipe out every man, woman and child in Gaza if it were not for the rest of the world breathing down Israel's neck. To substantiate your views you included links to 9 different international news and advocacy sites because apparently the American media is covering up for the bad guys in Israel.

Yet... 5 of the 9 sites are Jewish or Israeli. More than half your sources are from the "bad guys" in Israel. This leads me to think that you're not being fair to the Israeli side here. The fact of the matter is, the Israelis treat the Palestinians with more deference than the Palestinians themselves do.

And what happens when the Israelis pull back? The Palestinians start killing one another. When it's all said and done, far more Palestinians have been killed by their own or by their Arab brothers than have been killed by Israel.

If you don't want Palestinians to be killed, say it in Arabic.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

I made sure to give you Israeli sites.

You miss the point, we as Christians have no dog in this fight. It is a mess that is fueled by a government that continues to claim a victim's position.

You are not understanding the world view of this, we are not back in 1948 or 1967, we are sitting in 2009. Israel would mop up Gaza with every man woman and child if given the chance. If Israel was trying to seek peace, then why does she continue to constantly agitate the situation by sending her settlers into Palestinian Occupied Territory? That's not what you call trying to keep peace. Palestinian kill other Palestinians? Do you have a clue to why?
Because both groups feel that the other isn't doing enough to get the invader out of their land. Yes, Invader. The Palestinian is treated like a prisoner on a reservation, behind a wall, and bars. Having to watch their wives for at least two generations give birth at IDF check points.
It takes sometimes hours to get in and out of the occupied territories, to go to work, hospitals, and schools. Life is unbearable for these people, so they get angry, not only with the oppressor, but with those who are in the jail cell with them. Who they believe not to be working with them to eradicate the invaders. Who side are YOU on? Israel? Palestine? Hamas? The PLO?
You should be on no one's side who would resort to bloodshed, and murder.
I thought I stated that before? I really thought I made myself clear on that matter? So, I will repeat myself. We should be for PEACE, not death and destruction of anyone. No one's human rights should be forfeited. No children should be placed in harms way, and no 4 year old should have their legs torn off.

The BAD GUY? How about balance of power? Do you mean to tell me that there is a balance of power? Come on already, compare the fire power of the two groups involved. Stop and think of what is going on over there and educate yourself. Pray that peace will come, and that the fighting would end when the Peace Activists in Israel and in Palestine wake the government up that brute force and antagonizing the people will never bring peace.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

You are not understanding the Israeli sites you gave me. This criticism of Israel's military is coming from Israel itself. So why do you think Israel would launch some genocidal attack when the Israeli people are the biggest hindrance to such a policy?

You seem to want to smear Israel here with a "blood libel" for something that only you imagine that they would do - and then to substantiate your charge against the Israelis, you tell me the Israelis themselves abhor such bloodshed. You really don't have anything to back up the charge of: "Israel would mop up Gaza with every man woman and child if given the chance," do you?
The settler movement is very problematic but Israel hasn't "sent out settlers" for years.

Basically they won a bit of territory in a defensive war - territory that would make future defense more secure if it were developed. They experimented with that idea - even building settlements in the Sinai. But then they abandoned those settlements and the Sinai, and the oil fields in Sinai when Sadat proved open to peace. They did the same thing in Gaza. All Egyptian territory has been returned - only the Egyptians don't want Gaza back.

Currently it is illegal to build new settlements in the West Bank and current settlements are under pressure to close down with the Israeli government giving financial incentives for those who will resettle elsewhere within Israel. All settlements in Gaza were abandoned years ago - along with their expensive factories, greenhouses and infrastructure. The Palestinians tore everything down immediately. They could have used the greenhouses and even the homes - but instead they destroyed everything to perpetuate their "victim status."
And they're not doing it. There are settler groups that do outrageous things like setting up "outposts" consisting of plywood shacks on strategic hillsides. These actions generate a lot of attention as do the forced evacuations of the settlers by the Israeli army.
Israel is not "the Invader." Your trendy pop culture Pro-Terrorist lingo is inaccurate. The Palestinian people were created in 1967 from the former citizens of Egypt and Jordan. Then the whole mess turned so ugly that even Egypt and Jordan wanted to wash their hands of it.

You exaggerate a couple of truly unfortunate incidences with the "2 generations..." thing.
The reason for this is to try and slow the pace of the suicide bombers down. You must know this. Why do you ignore the awful carnage that keeps being wrecked upon peaceful Israelis?
An interesting statement from someone who objects to measures taken to impede suicide bombers. First you want to remove the obstacles that were put in the bombers' way; and then you claim that you want to facilitate the passage of suicide bombers in the interests of "peace." I do in fact "choose sides" from time to time. In this case, you've obviously chosen the wrong side.
And yet you want to see more of this? Click the link. Yes, those are baby carriages.
What are you talking about? No, I don't want to see a "balance of power." I want to see the "good guys" win, on every side.
Israel was antagonized by the incessant shelling, mortar fire and rockets coming from Gaza after they had abandoned the settlements there.

hmm... Israel abandons Gazan settlements. Gaza is turned into an armed camp and starts firing indiscriminately upon Israeli civilian targets, Israel responds and Benincasa says it's all caused by Israel "sending settlers" into Arab lands.

Must be pretty late in your part of the country, bro.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Crazy isn't it? Oh, one other thing that precipitated. There was a brief fire fight when Israel caught Hamas planting a bomb.

BTW those home made rockets? I wonder where they are getting the parts for them? Did they make the mortar rounds too?

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Yes, I totally understand the sites I gave you. I made sure I gave you Israeli sites written by Israelis. It is also a known FACT, that if the United Nations and the rest of the world wasn't intensively critical of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians those Palestinians would be wiped out or driven out to the outlying countries. The criticism of Israel's military is coming from Israel itself are the citizens and religious of Israel. Just like you have in America, Americans who criticize their own government. What a novel idea? Imagine we have free thinking people who want real truth and freedom around the world. :thumbsup
Now I can see your confusion. You first came back at me by saying that the sites I offered you are Israelis criticizing Israeli military and their actions, and then you say the above? Well, their nothing going to change your mind. You must truly believe that Israel is fighting a super power armed with state of the art weapons and an enemy army more skilled than the United States Marines. Try to do some research outside of your narrow view, and devotion to a country that has caused your own country bad relationships throughout the free world.

http://www.ussliberty.org/findleybook.htm

http://www.gtr5.com/


Where o you live? Where did that come from? Write Dem. Jimmy Carter, and Rep. Paul Findley, and TELL THEM the above.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Can you produce a map of Palestinian land? Won the land in a defensive war? Me thinks you also believe that we won the black hills in a defensive war. :ursofunny

Oh I thought they haven't built settlements in occupied lands for YEARS?
Second thought don't write anyone, you couldn't care less. You must have Fox news pumped into your veins. I heard the same slander about people who lived in the South Bronx for years. That anything that were given to them they destroyed. You are wrong at so many levels it's not even funny.

I have a friend who was a settler. He told me that other settlers openly walked around armed to the teeth. He said the settlers would shoot at Palestinians who were working their olive groves, burn groves. Pelathais you don't know what you are talking about.

Wow, you are really having a problem with this? Pro Terrorist? Do your wear bear skins and carry a club? How about pro peace? I posted those web sites and you breezed through them just to justify your own agenda, and beliefs.
You couldn't care less. Out of site out of mind. Not your children getting their limbs ripped off. Hey you just justify your thoughts by saying that the parents of these children send them off to die. That is nonsense. You can't even get Pentecostals to get it together, and yet there is a religion out there that has full cooperation by its adherents? Shut off your television, it's blinding your mind.

You are wrong on so many levels. I will answer the rest of your post later.

Pro Terrorist? That was out of line.

Oh weren't YOU the one who blasted me a while ago and corrected me that we weren't in a Recession?

Shut off your television, Big Brother has been teaching YOU. :ursofunny

In JESUS NAME

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Can you produce such a map? Here's a UN map: http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/israel.pdf

The area labeled "Gaza" was sovereign Egyptian territory before 1967. The area labeled "West Bank" was sovereign Jordanian territory until 1967.

There simply was no "Palestine." The land that is Israel today was called "Trans-Jordan" during the British mandate period that ended in 1948. Before the British took it in WW1 it was called "The Ottoman Empire."

The Six Day War of 1967 is universally seen as a defensive war on Israel's part. See this, this and this. The primary catalyst for starting the war was the persistent attacks on Israel carried out by the Fatah terrorist organization that was allowed to operated freely in Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

"Fatah" is Arabic for "Conquest." They saw their fight against Israel as being a war of "conquest" and not a defense of their own lands and homes.
Are you on drugs? Are you perhaps lacking medication? Re-read that part that you highlighted. Read it slowly, or perhaps have someone else read it for you.
Did you intend for this statement to be posted or were you simply responding to one of "the voices"? If you wish to respond to my posts, and I'm flattered that you would, please try to keep your responses limited to those things that I'm saying and ignore "the voices."
I watch so little television and television news that I can't really evaluate that statement.
I don't know about the "South Bronx;" but "slander?" Moi? How about this?
What did I even say that would contradict the above statement? Except the part about you having "friends," I'm pretty skeptical about that.

I think the word I used to describe the settler movement was "problematic." And I was being nice. I don't have any friends who are settlers because those who are left in the movement don't tend to be very friendly.
Believe it or not, I am very familiar with the Gush Shalom movement and I read Haaretz almost daily. Your piddling around with Google didn't really put anything new on the table. You didn't even appear to be aware of the fact that more that half your links were Jewish or Israeli until I pointed it out to you. And even then, you still failed to come to terms with the glaring contradiction that existed - You made it appear that Israel was just chomping at the bit to killed "every man, woman and child in Gaza..." and yet the Israeli and Jewish sites themselves give just the opposite impression.
What is it that blinds your mind? Your anti-Israel language was so strong - particularly to call Israel "the Invader" and your dismissing the dangers posed by the Katyusha rockets - that it indicates you support the policies of the terrorists. You even complained about the measures that were put into place to stop the suicide bombers - measures that have worked and saved countless lives. No, what was out of line was you espousing policies that obviously aid the terrorists.
I vaguely remember a conversation with someone where I explained that the official designation of "Recession" and so forth can only be made after the fact. You have to wait until an enormous amount of data is compiled and analyzed, reported and released. Thus, we could be in a recession at some time but not have the numbers to back it up until a later date. Also, such as in 1992, we could go into and come out of a recession before all the numbers are even in.

As far as "blasting" you - I'll leave that to whatever it is that torments you so terribly on your own. I really don't think my words could ever hurt you as badly as you must feel about yourself at times.
Your constant harping on a nonexistent issue reveals the qualities of a bigot. Your open and angry opposition to measures taken to control terrorists shows your support for terrorism.

The fact that you have failed to even address any of the points I raised persuades me that other than a generalized and angry anti-Semitism you don't really seem to know much about the history of the Middle East.

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

What are you saying? Are you trying to have us believe that these are people without a homeland? That's a switch. Prior to 1948 it was the European Jewry who were the one's without a homeland. These Palestinians had been living in Israel, Jerusalem for hundreds of years. They were forced out of their "home" land, and deposited into the occupied territories.
The Eastern Europe Jews settled in Palestine prior to 1948, after the British gained the land from the crumbling Ottoman empire. The Balfour Declaration November 2, 1917 enabled Jews to settle in and around Israel. Sort of like the early American settlers on Indian land.

Excuse me but there is Palestinians who to this day wear keys around their necks awaiting to return to homes within Israel and Jerusalem. You have two generations of Palestinians who have been under Israeli occupation. How an occupying force treats the people that they are over, has a lot to do with what kind of peace they can expect. No exaggerating being done by me. The day of making excuses for Israel are over. They need to be brought to task for a problem that has cost this country dearly.

Why do you ignore the awful carnage waged upon a people who can't even be rated as third worlders. I'm embarrassed at your lack of understanding of the issue. Also your want to defend a country who has caused the United States such a strain on its own foreign policy. Do you know that NATO, has offered to be at Israeli check points to help the Israelis? The problem is catastrophic, and the excuse of blaming all this on the religion is pretty much over. How many Palestinians do you know? Do you have any friends who are Israeli? Have you ever been to Gaza? To the occupied territories?


Really? Is that what you got from my comments? Is this why so many citizens of this country are tired of religious people? Because of the above response? You need to dig yourself. I didn't say that check points need to be removed and allow everyone to file through. There is a problem and the problem can only be solved by treating people like humans. Frustrated Palestinians and frustrated IDF soldier are NOT working. America supports Israel financially at the tune of $1.8 trillion, with 700 billion dollar bailouts, and stimulus package maybe we should look at what is spent on Israel yearly. I believe that Israel has her right to exist, but please have her climb off the back of Uncle Sam. We have supported Israel to our own hurt. The solution is complex because Israel aggravates her own situation. She knows that she has backing from a golden goose and while the money keeps coming to supply weapons, and fuel her military there is no need to seek a lasting peace. A peace that at this point may never come.

Since your knee jerk response was to call me a Pro-Terrorist (sorry to hear that your mind can't rap around the fact that not every Palestinian is a terrorist), I can see why you WANT to believe the above. Too bad you won't to the homework.

Your link doesn't work friend.

I guess at this point of our discussion you must of been pretty upset. Because you were no longer reading, you just kept replying.

Listen to me, balance of power means that both sides are equal to wage war with the same amount of fire power. Therefore since both would wipe out each other in the case of war, they would abstain. Since this will never be the case with the Palestinians I wanted you to understand that Israel was fighting against a people who have NOTHING, but homemade rockets, mortars, shells, bombs, slingshots, they resort to throwing bottles filled with gas. Suicide bombers are a weapon of desperation. The Kamikaze pilots of World War II increased as Japan started losing the war. They would take young teenage men and just teach them to get the plane off the ground and how to fly. They would bring them out and the lead pilot would just point to them to fly down into the American ships. Suicide bombers are a weapon of desperation. In case you missed it, allow me to make it plain for you. We are Christians are Christians don't have wars that use violence and deadly force. Therefore in this issue, there are no good guys.

Do you even know about how prior to the shelling that Israel was blocking food and supplies going into Gaza.

Gaza was in pitch black darkness, no food no fuel? Wake up.

You really need to clam down and try to find out what your talking about.
Because having this discussion on the Internet is a luxury. When someone takes you to school on this subject in person, you going to be standing there looking foolish.

Try to find out what is happening, because your information is somewhat lacking. ;)

In JESUS NAME

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

I am surprised that you have resorted to accuse me as one who supports terrorism, a bigot, and an Anti-Semite? You must of been pretty upset to choose that course of attack. Now since you have the map above, can you find the one that is spotted by active settlements? Do you know who owns the right to all the water in those occupied territories? Pro terrorist? Anti-Semite? There are children dying on both sides, and in Palestine you have the majority of the dead being women and children. I assure you that your charges of me are wrong, and apprehensible. I haven't dealt with your points? I most certainly have, I gave web sites, for you to check over. Didn't deal with your points? You resorted to calling me pro terrorist, Anti-Semite?
Try to strengthen your arguments. You obviously don't know your case.

Excuse me? So you are going to use the misplaced peoples argument.
These Palestinians were not living on that land prior to 1917?
Those early Jews lived alongside the Palestinians who lived there before the Balfour declaration. You need to do some research. Listen the area was called Palestine by Rome, 2000 years ago. The Palestinians lived there first.
Jerusalem wasn't abandoned, and the Israelis moved in and built a modern city and then some arabs came by and wanted it. That story is also growing old.

That's like saying the battle of the Little Big Horn was to defend American land. The battle was retaliation, because of what they lost.

Nice talk Pelathais, does this mean your argument is going down in flames.
Mellow, mellow, breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out. :thumbsup

It looked to me like you couldn't get your story straight. My apologies.
Maybe you should try to get information from other than MSNBC?

Listen you are obviously angry to the point that you believe what you believe.
You have convinced yourself that the Palestinians are less then human, are ALL terrorists, they teach all their children to be suicide bombers, or human shields. Israel is huddled shaking in the corner, with trembling fear, as the powerful armies of Hamas with state of the art weaponry fire smack dab in the middle of Tel Aviv, and Jerusalem.

Also you are not flattered about anything in this discussion. You attack me and expect me to do what? Ignore the voices? Don't take it personal, from your responses I hardly believe that you could care less about gaining any truth other than Israel is justified.


MSNBC, FOX, CBS, I'm not talking about you watching Scooby Doo, I'm talking about your choice of information. You need to scrap your television.
That is not from a Pentecostal view, that is from a informational view. ;)

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

Did you happen to read the article or did it just suit your agenda?

Maybe you need to read it again and place it in his context to the case we are discussing. Let see, YOU live in a bomb out apartment complex, or area, and you have no water? No WATER, NO WAY TO GET WATER. So what does the big bad Palestinian do? He straps bombs to his children and blows himself up? NO, he goes and takes apart the useless green houses, but what does he take? WATER PUMPS? Oh water pumps to pump water, and what about PLASTIC water pipes. You see doesn't that make sense to you? Or would you rather listen to MSNBC through your filters, and sleep easy knowing that those non-human Palestinians were just vandalizing the beautiful Israeli greenhouses.


I can say the same about you, but carry on it makes you feel better.

Don't tend to be friendly? Go on, tell me about the one who wasn't friendly to you?

Are you spitting all over your monitor? I can see that you read Haaretz daily.

Whatever.

Does believing the above make you feel better? I always use sources that are non Palestinian. Because if I used them you would make your case that they were slighted. I'm sorry that you are so upset, but you really need to read Haaretz.

Yet, I haven't seen you address the information in those sites. The Israelis understand that their problems stem from a gross mistreatment of the Palestinians. How about the Palestinian Christians? How are their feeling of the occupation? They feel that Israel wants to eradicate them as well as any Muslim Palestinian. These people who are non-Muslim feel the threat and live under the same harsh conditions as their Muslim counterparts.

Homemade rockets, they destoyed the tunnels, they were straving out the Palestinians prior to the end of the truce. Homemade rockest, homemade mortars. Hey go back and re-read you MSNBC.

The army said troops in the village were attacked by a crowd of about 500 people hurling stones and concrete blocks, and a soldier was slightly injured. Troops fired rubber bullets at the attackers, one of whom was seen being taken away in a Palestinian ambulance, the military said.

Be reasonable, this is not a mechanized army, they are continually fight with sticks and stones. They are wore out, and are reduced to fighting like neanderthals.

I didn't, that is how you saw my words. Let me help you out.
Treat people like humans. Treat people like humans, treat people like humans.
Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. :ursofunny

Yawn.

Maybe you should turn Haaretz rightside up next time you read it. :winkgrin

Well, this conversation is about done. :ursofunny

Turn the Wall Street Journal, and Barrons right side up also as you read.

Really? :)

What you just said is truly horrible.

Your candy stick use of the above shows that you are closed to any future discussion of this topic. I never said what you have constantly parroted back to me. You need to fly over to the occupied territories and spend a week there. :thumbsup

Pelathais maybe you should just chill out and do the homework instead of parroting Zionist rhetoric. Listen, Zionism is not Judaism.

Good bye.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Re: US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment
 

What is a "homeland?" Think carefully about that because historically it can be demonstrated that all human beings "belong" to a homeland region this stretches from Olduvai Gorge to Lake Chad. We are "invaders" everywhere else. All of us. Each of us. So why don't you "go home" and give the land you're living on back to the manatees and alligators?

The issue is quite a bit more complex than you are willing to admit at this point. You appear now to be referring to Israel proper and not the territories that include the West Bank and Gaza. Are these the "settlements" that you referred to earlier? Is Tel Aviv a "settlement" that the evil Israelis keep sending out settlers to inhabit?

Most civilized human beings have begun to realize that it's no longer expedient to act like territorial apes. We have to give a little and bend from time to time.

The vast majority of Palestinians are the descendants of the citizens of Egypt and Trans-Jordan. There are many who are the descendants of those who hearkened to Amin Hussein's call in 1948 to get out of the way of the Arab armies while they slaughtered all of the Jews. Previously, during WW2 Hussein had asked for German assistance to settle the "Jewish question" as it was being settled in Germany. When the Germans lost, the Grand Mufti continued to preach a jihad against the Jews "everywhere."

The Jews in Israel at this time could be roughly categorized into 3 groups: the "veteran Jews" whose families had always lived in the land; the Sephardi whose families were connected to North Africa and Andalusia (Spain) but had been relocating back to the Holy Land over the course of centuries and the Ashkenazim - the descendants of the Italian Jews Charlemagne relocated into the Rhine River Valley in the 9th century and whose ancestors migrated progressively eastward to escape anti-semitic pogroms. There were also many others, of course. The Yemeni Jews who dance by simply jumping straight up and down because they had to hide when then danced; the Babylonian Jews who are the descendants of those Jews who did not return with Ezra and Nehemiah, and so on.

It is the third group that you seem to have fixed your derision upon. You also seem to be unaware of the other two major groups or any others - though I suspect that this is a rhetorical stunt on your part in order to label all Jews as "invaders."
No, they were begged to stay in most cases. The Jews in Israel in 1948 felt that having civilian Arabs as neighbors would cause the Arab armies to hold back on their announced genocidal war of conquest.
The Balfour declaration was a unilateral comment by the crumbling British Empire intended to win sympathetic votes for the ruling party in the upcoming. The British actually fought bloody battles to keep the Jews from escaping Europe and going to Israel.
Again, your "River to the Sea" mentality confuses you. Do you support the destruction of Israel?
What "Palestinians" where? The ones in the camps in Lebanon and Syria are kept in prison like environments by their Arab captors. The ones that used to be in Jordan were driven out by King Hussein in the 1970's because they constantly attacked and agitated Israel.

The ones in the bird cage of Gaza - territory that belonged to Egypt going back to the days of the Pharaohs are not "occupied." Israel completely disengaged from Gaza back in 2005. After Israel left Hamas, with Iranian guns took over and rearmed themselves. They have been attacking Israel nonstop since 2005.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Israel did not create the problems of the Middle East - militant Islam and Jihad are the problem. If you don't have the courage to stand up for what's right then tear off your mask. You are not promoting peace here, you are not advancing Christian ideals. You just want to see those nasty Jews get what you believe they've got coming to them, don't you?
I don't ignore the real suffering - why did you eat so many paint chips when you were a child? I had nothing to do with that - and the public service television commercials all warned that you shouldn't eat those paint chip... ah! You never saw the commercial warning about the risks of eating paint chips.
Foreign policy will always have strains. Why do you want to destroy a nation that is reviled by hundreds of millions of brain washed Muslims?
Why don't you ask the girls in Srebnica and Sarajevo what it's like to be "protected" by a NATO check point. The UN "monitors" in Lebanon have stood by and done nothing while Hezbollah has rearmed and loaded themselves up with 1,000's more of the Iranian missiles.
The check points into and out of Israel are needed to protect Israelis. Simple fact - the ruling powers among the Palestinians are paid to kill Jews, and paid very well. Arafat died a multi-billionaire. They have a lot of incentive to kill Jews.

Yes, there must be hassles and tie ups in such a situation. The answer is for the Palestinian people themselves to resist their murderous rulers. But that is very dangerous.
Get a browser. The link to the MSN News site is fine.
You keep guessing wrong. How sad to know everything and to lose all sense of wonder and the excitement of learning.[/quote]
How come there are still Christians today? Let me tell you: Constantinople 717, Tours 732, Avignon 737, Vienna in 1539 and again in 1683. I like peace, but I also recognize that I wouldn't even exist today if it were not for people who stood up to the world's bullies and said, "Enough."
Prior to the shelling? Get real. The shelling started even as the Israelis were evacuating Gaza. The Israelis pulled out of Gaza under fire even though they were giving that piece of Egypt back to the Palestinian/Egyptian residents. I'm embarrassed for you seeing that link to a site maintained by the Socialist Worker's Party. You should be more careful with what your google searches turn up.
You crack me up there, buddy.

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Sad. So very sad, EB. But it's not too late for you. Try enrolling in some classes at a local community college. Just reading and completing the assignments will help you to learn to formulate an intelligent way of expressing yourself.

Again, what is it about the Jewish people in Gush Shalom that makes you think they want to "mop up Gaza with every man, woman and child..."? What is it about the liberal/left leaning newspaper Haaretz that makes you think it's editorial policy would support such a thing?

You see EB, Gush Shalom and Haaretz and millions of others of groups, individuals and businesses are what constitute the state of Israel. When you read something in Haaretz or on Gush Shalom's website do you get the impression that you are reading the words of genocidal maniacs? No, you don't.

You have found common ground with their thoughts. You have been moved by their pity. Now, why do you think them to be killers?

You were the one who opened with the blood libel. When I challenged you on that bigoted and anti-semitic charge you tried to show that you had reason to hate the people of Israel. Then finally, it all came crumbling down on you like a Palestinian school house wired with explosives by Hamas. Now we must pity you because Pelathais stood up to your bullying.

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Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earthof the earth be blessed.

The fact is the United States has been blessed because we have blessed Isreal. If that changes you can be assured the second half of the scripture applies as well. We are waiting to see what positions the Obama admin will have regarding Isreal.

But like it or not, there has been bloodshed between the Jews and Palestenians for thousands of years. It's not gonna change. I choose to stay with what God says he will bless.

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The above is a perfect example of a man drowning while losing an argument.

Maybe you need to take some courses to clearly get your point across.
Or maybe you should take a class in anger management? :heeheehee

Look more filler and mumbo jumbo. Have you ever seen Charlie Brown cartoon?
Have you ever seen when Charlie's teacher is adressing him? You know how she sounded? WAH, WAH, WAH, WAH...WAH. Did you get the above by reading Haaretz?

[QUOTE=pelathais;695158]
The vast majority of Palestinians are the descendants of the citizens of Egypt and Trans-Jordan.{/quote]

Were these people living in the land known as Israel prior to the Turks handing it over to the British in 1917? It is real simple yes or no question.
Not too complex.

Never was it brought up in our conversation of those Jews who were living in Palestine prior to 1917. Lord Rothchild had his vineyards there and owned property. Lord Rothchild was the main influence to obtain the Balfour Declaration. The Arabs and Jews lived in peace prior to any Zionist stirring.
The invaders is the title given to those who are part of an occupying force.
Therefore Israel is the warden, and the Palestinians are the convicts.
Will you now convince us that Israel is not the occupying force?
The Palestinians are not occupied?

No, I do support the destruction of stupidity. I would recommend you a book that would explain in vivid detail the British account of Palestine. An account of thousands of British who lived in Palestine during the "Mandate Days," but alas you can't even deal with my posts, let alone read something that would challenge your belief. ;)

You need to read my postings without getting too emotionally involved.
You are obviously missing what I'm saying and just trying to rip into me.
Asking if I support the destruction of Israel, wasn't worth the effort it took to tap the keys.

It is interesting you know your propaganda really well. Yet, no mention of how David Ben Gurion told Jewish settlers not to cultivate or take land that was owned by Palestinian fellahin. Ben Gurion was also quoted to say that if you buy their land you were to "pay a fair price." I know how you want us to believe that what is now called Israel didn't have one Arab living there prior to the Israeli state. If I'm mistaken, I haven't yet see you even allude that they even had native inhabitants within what is now called Israel. Yet, Ben Gurion even made statements referring to the peasant population of the land. In other words they were third worlders and in your mind they don't count.

You are losing your argument, and now you are losing your mind. You aren't advancing ideals of peace, nor any kind of Christianity. You are bent in trying to portray every single Arab as an enemy. Bloodthirsty killer waiting to strap a bomb to their children into order to kill an Israeli citizen. You need to turn your television off and turn your brain on. At least you're having a good time placing intentions and words in my mouth and mind. You should be ashamed of yourself. Yet, I doubt you would, you are too emotional, or maybe theatrical? :heeheehee

I can see that, because you are ignoring your own. Instead of defending your argument you are spitting and spewing. It's a wonder you can type.
Remember, breath, breath, breath, deep breaths, come on...breath.

Attention: This is what happens when a man loses his ability to carry on an argument. Breath, breath, come on deep breaths, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, :heeheehee

Are you kidding me? What drama. :ursofunny How about wanting a country to behave themselves. Obey the United Nations Resolutions that are given you, and stop aggravating the situation with your ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS!

I'm the one who wants destruction? I want bloodshed? Listen friend you need to wake yourself up. You are dreaming and I think the Zionist propaganda has sent you down the worm hole. I made mention of NATO inspecting the check points. The Germans have also offered to help. Listen something needs to happen here because you and your group hasn't done a thing, but stain the desert red. Stop with the drama and stop saying I want destruction. It looks like you are the one who thinks every Arab wants to kill Israelis and Americans. Stop trying to slam your agenda down the mouths of those who are tried of a shot in the head foreign policy. Tired of what our relation to Israel has gotten us over the years. Europe is sick with the way we coddle Israel. It time to take them to task and get them to solve their own mess.
Bulldozing homes and olive groves that are hundred of years old is no way to win the hearts and minds of a people.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

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Get out of here. That is the most dumbest thing you have said yet. You don't know anything about Arabs. Resist their leaders? you had mentions yourself about their inner fighting. You can't keep your story straight can you?

Try getting an education about what you argue about. Better yet stick with the Bible and stay out of foreign affairs.

No, I am guessing right, you lost your battle and then went full blown into ranting. Even your above quote was typed out of frustration and anger.
Take it easy friend. At least you're not having to live in a bomb out house.

I didn't ask for a history lesson. I had made a statement. instead of dealing with what I said you resort to giving me a history lesson on Palestinian Christians.

What rubbish, "if it were not for people who stood up to the world's bullies and said, 'Enough.'" They lived in peace with the Arabs for thousands of years.

Do you know who still owns a large majority of property in Israel?
The Eastern Greek Orthodox Church. Pelatgais you need to do your homework.

There you go boys and girls, that is why I supplied Pelathais with the Israeli and Jewish sites in the beginning. Just as I thought when he gets a site that slams his beliefs he doesn't attack the information, he attacks the source.
Thank you Pelathis you are typical. No googling friend, though you wish that was the case. You are typical. :heeheehee


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

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Again a perfect example of either not reading my post or just not giving a care to see a differing view to your own.

Pelathais, the people of Israel who create those sites do them in protest, to advocate peace, to call their government leaders to answer for the treatment of Palestinians. They ar not the government Pelathais, that is WHY THEY ARE WANTING CHANGE.

They don't want to kill anyone that's the reason for the web site.

Right? Instead of your weak attempts to stifle me with everything from collage courses, paint chips, Pro Terrorist, and Anti-Semite, you may want to do some further research. Which I strongly doubt you would. You only know one side, and are convinced to believe anything else is unthinkable.
That is a pathology. Yet, you are more than happy to wander around in that state of being, and annoy the rest of the free thinking world, who feel your views are archaic, and problematic. Maybe in the 1980s we as a country didn't see this as much of a problem, but now we are in the thick of it. We don't want anymore failed attempts at peace. We want Israel to stop playing the victim. They have enough firepower to wipe out everyone around them.
To say they don't is shear blindness or delusional. Those Palestinians are equal to Haitians attacking the United States, and the United States bombing Haiti for a month straight.

When did I say "here is the web site of people who want to mow down every man woman and child in Gaza." I didn't post that. Yet, you keep banging your tin drum in some futile attempt to convince yourself that I did that. Pelathais, I didn't offer you the opinions of the people who are running the show, if they were they wouldn't be protesting. Your attempts to argue this topic has failed miserably.

You must wow everyone at your football parties as they roll their eyes at your discussions on the Middle East. As they look for an exit while you tell them for the hundredth time that you read Haaretz "daily." :blah

Oh, yawn. :bored

Wrong again Pelathais, that was you. I never used that term in our discussion. It was used only by you as you struggled with your argument.

Bigoted and Anti-Semitic? Here you go people of the free world. Make any strong statement against Israeli policy and you are labeled "bigoted" and anti-Semitic?" That is outrageous. No critical eye ever placed upon your deeds, because political correctness police will jump up and smear you.

Pelathais isn't even funded by AIPAC, he is just some guy who posts on the internet. Yet, he has been trained by the media that when the bell is rung he salivates. His knee jerk response to the very thought that Israel could be her own worst enemy is unthinkable.

Educate yourselves, find out the truth. Zionism is NOT Judaism. This is NOT about race, this is about political agendas that greatly affect our country.
I don't want Israel to go away, I want Israel to control their occupation forces, and that may be close to impossible. Rachel Corrie was a teenage girl who was murdered by an Israeli bulldozer that was trying to demolish the house of an Palestinian doctor. She was an American protestor. Educate yourselves to what is really happening over there. We as Christians must advocate peace at any cost.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

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I think I have benefited by this current exchange.

Thank you to Pel and E.B. for the energy expended to put these views into words.

At some point, in another thread, at another time, I would like to see an exchange involving viewpoints held (and the resultant specifics that emerge) concerning "We as Christians must advocate peace at any cost"

regards,
tbpew

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60 Minutes just did a report on why peace in Israel is so difficult. Watch it HERE

This report agrees with much that Bro. Benincasa is saying about the situation there.

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There is no such thing as Christians advocating violence or war. We are on no side that uses violence or deadly force.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

http://www.amnesty.org/

http://www.fmep.org/

http://endtheoccupation.org/index.php

This issue is extremely radio active and won't win you friends among the "Israel Can Do No Wrong" crowd. The solution for peace can only happen until peace is sought through understanding and not oppression and force.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

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Interesting. The bias is obvious, but interesting non the less.

They spoke with government officials for Israel, wonder why not speak to the government for the Palastinians ?

Is that the actual 'Holy Land' that God promised Abraham ?

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That is a GREAT question!