Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

I was informed a week or so ago that my blog was being posted all over forums, printed & distributed, and causing issues. It's funny how that happens. Once a thought is out there, whether written or spoken, it's out there for good. No chance of recall. We choose to stand behind our words or crumble under the weight of them. I'm too much of an idealist to crumble.

I went to the forums & read what was said. For some I was a crusader for their cause. I was a name they could drop to further their agenda. I could see where it was going already: They would ride the wave of my words until it no longer gave them a thrill, then they would move on to the next wave and leave me washed up on the shore. For others on the forums I was, at the very least, a wayward warrior leading soldiers far from the cross, and at the most the very personification of evil.

It's a strange feeling being both destroyed & glorified at the same time. Just strange.

My words were causing some joy & others pain. They were helping some & hurting others. Blessing & Cursing. Things I assumed were private (and intended to be kept private), as a form of dialogue-diary between friends & preachers, had now entered the public arena. And the public can be harsh. They can be harsh for 2 main reasons: Misinterpretation & Frenzy.

Words are spoken in contexts. They are carefully framed with purpose & certain hearers in mind. When words are read outside of those contexts or by other hearers many things can go awry. Motives are assumed. Tone is read into. Other things including the personality of the writer, the purpose of the writing...etc, are either misconstrued or not even considered. Misunderstanding language is the reason the Catholic church kept the Bible from translation into common language for so long - if people, who were unfamiliar with solid hermeneutical principles, translated it, they could easily misinterpret its original meaning, misapply it into their lives, and mislead others into heresy.

Simply put, when I write blogs, I'm sometimes writing things from a 'devil's advocate' perspective (I may not even agree with the thoughts myself) - stirring up thought to catch reactions and make people think outside the box (ie: my blog on 'Cursing'). Sometimes I'm opening my heart & soul & bearing my fears, frustrations, and joys (ie: my blog on 'Holy Hair' & 'The Parade'). And sometimes I'm just having fun! This is why the blog was meant to be private - for people who know me & understand my personality & can identify with my struggles while offering an outsider's perspective and bringing balance to my sometimes outlandish ideas.

But when these kind of words are carried from their safe place of rest and marched into the town square for a public hearing, it's no wonder why they can cause drama, riot & frenzy. "The person is rational, people are not." The mob can create an energy that builds a tower or destroys a city. The mob tears and pulls and yells 'crucify him!' The mob can be very destructive.

Just as my words on issues were a blessing to some & a cursing to others, so I have now been blessed & cursed. But my words were spoken towards issues (I never mentioned names in my writings of frustration - it is not in me to defame people or destroy ministries, whether or not I agree with them). My goal was debating topics, approaches to scripture, and getting feedback.

I got plenty of feedback.

What is sad to me is the fact that people can say all manner of things against others, without addressing their words or even responding directly to their blogs. They can sneak in through the window & kidnap your words out of their bed. They can attack others in their gardens of solitude and march them into the court for an illegal trial at night. The nature of the Pharisee has not changed much, just the masks they wear. They can be ruthless, tactless, and gutless as ever. They will never learn - it's in their nature.

What is even more heart-wrenching is the annihilation the mob leaves in their wake. Ministries, relationships, and confidences may be completely destroyed. They don't care. They have had their fill, and their cannibalistic appetites are only temporarily satisfied. The gossip-mongers live the high-life of clandestine meetings and pseudonyms...

...Pseudonyms! Why didn't I think of that! Instead of posting my picture & name all over the place, I could have just thrown out thoughts under a name like... uh... JL Vicente or Theophilus.

Now I am left with more rebuilding to do than my hands can perform. The tornado came through my town & now I'm sitting on my knees in an open field, amidst the ripped apart buildings and felled trees & roadsigns. The clarity of the moment is poignant. I see things for what they are without all the facades. My eyes are open as I sit here in the path of this tornado, looking at the damage surrounding me. The powerful truth of the moment is so painful. But I can't sit here forever...I have to rebuild this town, heal the wounded, love the enemy & minister by living this gospel. It's time to forgive those who don't know what they do. It's time to bless those who curse. It's time to ask for mercy from those who I've injured (though that was never my intention). It's time to bring a clarion voice to the confused & disturbed.

So to everyone who sought to bring me glory or shame, I love, forgive, and bless you.

I'm sorry to all my friends & family who my words have injured. My father & mother, whom I respect & love dearly. My uncle & General Superintendent who is a true Christian and and incredible leader. To ministers that have shaped my life like Tim Wachtstetter, Jeff Garner, Sam Moelenpah, Lee Stoneking. For those of you who have loved me & believed in my ministry, I'm more thankful than you may know. I love you all & I'm sorry for any pain I've caused. I know your beliefs are not in alignment with many of the ideas I have periodically presented & I apologize if those words ever brought reproach to your names or ministries. I hold you in the highest regards.

It was never my intention to bring confusion into any flock or to cause a schism in the body. I love the Bride of Christ with all my heart. If you love Him, you will love His church...you will honor & defend her, protect her and bless her. Tearing down people & ministries does not accomplish this goal - that's a far cry from defending truth and fighting for ideals. I'm truly sorry if my words or actions have ever failed in that attempt.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

I am no doubt part of a large group who is probably wondering "why the apology?".

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

On the heels of our discussion the other night, Vince, I will respond to this. HA!

What you have done here is a mature thing to do. We have had out own private discussions on this, and that is where it will remain. But, you have explained yourself articulately and as a mature Christian and individual. And I would say that even if you were not "familia."

Randy...let's just say Vince has been the subject of MANY conversations. He articulates, pretty much, the reason for why he apologizes here. It is, simply put, complicated.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

I am with RW, why the apology? You did nothing wrong or that needs to be apologized for. Maybe your blog should have been private, it wasn't, but that does not mean you owe anyone an apology. Except of course if you are trying to just cover all your bases.
You are from a wonderful family. Just because you happen to be related to someone that is in charge of a pretty good size group does not mean you are not allowed to speak your mind or say things you feel or even invoke thought in others as well as yourself.
Let the winds of gossip and dissent blow. As long as you stand on the ROCK of AGES you will survive. Your parents will survive as will your uncle. I am sure they have weathered worse storms than this one seems to be.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

You must have gotten your long windedness from your mom's side cause I don't remember your dad ever been this long winded.

=)

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Vince, I guess now you've got some decisions to make....how strong are your convictions and are they worth going to the mat for....I'm sure you're being leaned on heavily and I pray for you and your parents.

Kind of makes you realize that you might not believe something quite as strong as you thought huh?!

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

He can be.....

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

PM Incoming.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

God bless you, Vince. I posted a comment on your blog. I love and appreciate your spirit and heart for truth.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

BigDogSD...

An Apology is saying I'm sorry...

Yours is a attack on those who disagree with you claiming your a martyr for your beliefs..

Love you man...but this isn't a apology and truly you have nothing to apologize for because your private thoughts are what you actually believe if these things are what you believe...

Still waiting by the gate Bro..
Randy

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

never when I have been in a service he preached

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Personally, I am not a fan of those who arrange for the punishment of others, either in secret or in the open. I just don't see it as necessary, to put it mildly.

However, I was one who was not a fan of the blog [entry]. (One of the ones that was shared here.) I didn't misinterpret it, nor did I go into a "frenzy." My first thought was that the usage of words was unnecessary to make the point, and my second thought was, "I hope he doesn't [inadvertently] embarrass his parents or cause them pain."

Even as an adult, I am still very conscious of where my parents stood, where my mother still stands, and what offends her, or would cause her embarrassment on my behalf.

Sure, in this day of free thought, free expression, blogs, facebook, forums, etc., you would think our "self-expression" would be something we alone would answer for, and no one else. Unfortunately it still isn't the case. Our words matter, they affect people, and people we love are often held accountable for what they didn't say themselves.

So I do empathize with the fact that you were just "expressing" and perhaps didn't think it through any further than that, but from one PK to another--you should think things through better than that.

Just my 2 cents, no frenzy, no misinterpretation

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Well, . . . you can't serve two masters. In the end does following after God and convictions matter more than heritage and family. When you decide to make that clean break with those who only have their interest in mind there will be a great peace.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Your posting is getting more disgusting, RG. You have become an Inquisitor and a responsible party in this matter.

VL, once again I apologize if the HMH blog caused you undue stress - sorry. I appreciate that you had to courage to revise your thoughts on the matter.

I'm thinking however this has a little more to do with blessing and cursing?

I'm sorry that some have gone as far as apparently getting your DS involved ... this action is part of the ministry of Caiphas ... and the same spirit behind the Wesburg resolution ... it's one of disfellowship.

We seem to be at a crossroads ... I'm praying that you will make the right decisions for you, your loved ones and those in your care.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Randy, dude, what's up with this?

The guy is trying to make things right. It's obvious he is suffering.

Brother Larson, I think our greatest strength can also be our greatest weakness. It seems you are an excellent communicator, and you may have communicated your true feelings a little too well. Been there. Done that.

Live and learn.

Be Blessed.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

It's unreasonable to assume that heritage and family are always at odds with following after God and convictions. Especially when you have a godly heritage and family.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Not always, I agree ... I think DG would agree. But it makes it very complicated. Many layers. DG is very well acquainted with this dilemma based on his own personal experiences.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Great point. And nothing is private, really. Even hand-written diaries will probably eventually be read by our children or grandchildren.

My Sarah has already learned this the hard way...she's the only one who keeps a diary on a regular basis, and of course, her sister snooped. And told any relevant person mentioned that they were mentioned and how. Shame on Hannah--lol--but to be fair, Sarah would have done the same to her, if given a chance.

Now Sarah writes things down in a password protected diary, and writes with a special "invisible" marker--and even then, she often tears pages out and throws them away. :D

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Whats all this about? Got a link?

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Side note:

Why did God want Abram to separate himself from Terah (Abram's father)? Why did He want him to leave Ur?

Surely God could have done a great work through Abram in Ur?

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Did Terah have a godly heritage? :foottap

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

I understand the dilemma of being authentic and being your own "version" of Christianity sans parental apron strings. I understand trying to "break free." I understand trying to be provocative without being shocking. I get it.

But unfortunately human nature has to be taken into account, and either provided for, or its onslaught prepared and ready for.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Kind of different. Abram didn't leave until after Terah died. And he left Haran--not Ur.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Originally, yes.

But he invited idols into his life.

Maybe God is calling us back to pure doctrine, and others are confusing that calling with something new.

Truth is, over the years, we bring idols into the church without even realizing it. Maybe God is calling some folks away from the influence of families who have created, and yet cling to, an image of God that is faulty?

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Who worship the creature (ktisis - original formation) more than the Creator? :coffee2

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

"And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, "And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall show thee. Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell" (Acts 7:2-4).

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

I don't know how old you are VL, but you should know by now that some people are sad and pitiful, especially on forums. That's a nice way of saying they're jerks of course. And they read your words and yet somehow miss seeing themselves as they are. Lessons learned through causing pain to those we love are the hardest. God bless you.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

This doesn't contradict what I said. LOL!!!! Abram left to go into Canaan from Haran, and he didn't leave (Haran) until his father was dead.

Gen 11:31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
Gen 11:32 And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran.

Gen 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran
Gen 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

:coffee2 :D

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Uh oh, you just started telling the truth. Tradition may seem good and right in our own knowledge but when God decides it is enough he usually will make a way out. I would have never left and would still be making excuses and being an apologist for things that I didn't believe if God had not stepped in and handled the situation.

There is nothing better than godly christian heritage and I give my parents and family a lot of credit. Nothing is harder than taking that step away from our comfort zone but once you feel the tug of God and give into it everything else just seems to crumble and not matter anymore.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

I guess another thing I am saying or asking is, are you apologizing for WHAT you said or, how you said it?

Big difference between the two, especially on this subject.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Bro. Vince,

I am like others who feel that no apology is needed. I respect your attitude to do so, but if that is the kind of respect you get for being honest, it should tell you something about the circle of folks who "shot" the darts.

That is one of the reasons I have remained independent. I have no one to please (organizationally) and no one to fear. I have accountability to our leadership team @ NLC, so I'm not a rogue.

I am just so sorry for those who threw the darts. Will they never learn? Will their anger toward the uncertainty of their own salvation never cease to maim their own? It is sad. It is worse than sad. How God must weep and mourn over these things. I'm sorry that it happened to you, Bro, but hang on. David had his detractors and he also had his Defender. The same Defender will uphold you, strengthen you and keep you marching forward. As long as you keep your eyes fixed upon Him, you'll get where He wants you to go!!!! :D

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Even though his thread title provides the word "apology", it may be (others have posted similar possibility) that his regret is that he provided some individual data point that was used to serve another's agenda and in doing so, has imposed an unanticipated amount of 'revisiting' requirement on his part.

"Gotcha" is a great sport among the body politic that becomes highly regrettable when sideline observers get throw into a game where they had not purposed to be involved.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

The big picture ... you missed.

This deals with a lot more, TBP ... your agenda again blinds you.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

:) Group hug anybody?

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

Hey, at one point all those old timers stood up to the religion of their day and became heroes to us. I'm sure it embarrassed their families and friends to preach Pentecost, but they didn't care because it was the truth and thank God for that.

The same goes for those today who stand for truth. Thank you to those whose voices guide us back into the working of the Lord and not the works of us.

1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Even Paul that great warrior of Christ didn't know all things. So how can these HMH people start at long hair, go to uncut hair, then to stopping government revolts and preventing adultery? They just make this stuff up because they don't know and can't be satisfied with not knowing. It's not faith to make your own power and it's just plain silly to think God needs help in the miracle department.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

And yours didn't?

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

sir...i do not know you personally...but can you read? VL actually used the words "I'm sorry..."....so if an apology is saying "I'm sorry"....thats exactly what he did.

VL...I do think what you did was needed....not for me....but for you and those you mention. I believe that God does lead us all on different paths....we don't always know why....but if we truely want to walk the path He has prepared for us....then some times we can find ourselves being used, abused, and misunderstood. I will continue to pray that you grow in His grace...and that you do not weary in well doing.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

In Randy's shrinking circle, apologizing for causing hurt is not enough ... it means bowing down to their paradigm and asking for group acceptance. Penitence means humiliation before the elders they have established ... perhaps even self-mutilation might be an option?

Or at least being "sat down" and/or "prayed through" by the laying of their hands.

It goes as far as doing or accepting the unbiblical.

Like if one is divorced and remarried ... one should leave the second spouse and return to the former ... even if the OT clearly speaks against such an act.

Or if one attaches angelic powers to hair it doesn't really matter ... it's not a big deal .... as long as you preach and promote the uncut hair doctrine despite it (HMH) being a doctrine that tramples the power of the Holy Spirit and the name of Jesus.

Sound hermeneutics is heckled with labels like "Charismatic", "Emergent" "Baptists", and violently opposed, when it contradicts their traditions and usurped authority ... and the means are justified by the ends.

Re: Vince Larson Apology - Blessing & Cursing
 

These guys have had to do the same thing and it doesn't seem fair to them when others don't follow the same path. I am not sure they even realize how wrong it is because they have been mentored this way.

Used to be that in order to get back in good you had to go cry and wail and submit to shaking and spitting at the altar while everyone sits back and watches. They used to call it praying through.

Man just talking about it makes my stomach start hurting.